Microdosing Enanthate

[TDM812]

The results are in - these are labs after 25 days of .1 Enanthate IM daily in the AM. I know these aren’t stabilized, but it’s a good baseline on levels 1/2 way through.

 

[GreenMachineX]

The results are in - these are labs after 25 days of .1 Enanthate IM daily in the AM. I know these aren’t stabilized, but it’s a good baseline on levels 1/2 way through.

So 20mg daily??? Wow. That would have me freaking out. I use half that amount of test cyp and my free T is top of range.

 

[TDM812]

So 20mg daily??? Wow. That would have me freaking out. I use half that amount of test cyp and my free T is top of range.

I seem to be just barely over range on total T, and barely under on free. I wonder why we have the same levels on the 1/2 of the dose.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I seem to be just barely over range on total T, and barely under on free. I wonder why we have the same levels on the 1/2 of the dose.

Well, my total T is about 550 with top of range free T. I'm sure if I used 20mg daily, I'd be where your at with total T, but that would be pushing a cycle for me for free T lol.

 

[eli]

I seem to be just barely over range on total T, and barely under on free. I wonder why we have the same levels on the 1/2 of the dose.

How do you feel? Your DHT is on the lower side

 

[TDM812]

How do you feel? Your DHT is on the lower side

I feel a little better than I did, but I don’t feel 100%. I still feel like something is amiss. What is the cure for low DHT?

 

[TDM812]

I understand 6 weeks to be level, but due to short 1/2 life of anastrozole does it take less time to level estrogen?

 

[eli]

I feel a little better than I did, but I don’t feel 100%. I still feel like something is amiss. What is the cure for low DHT?

I personally think you need more DHT. Ask for DHT cream

 

[GreenMachineX]

I understand 6 weeks to be level, but due to short 1/2 life of anastrozole does it take less time to level estrogen?

Anastrozole can wreck e2 in a few days to a week. Many of us here have done it.

 

[TDM812]

I personally think you need more DHT. Ask for DHT cream

Does anyone have any experience with this?

 

[newuser]

Does anyone have any experience with this?

Other option is transdermal test cream applied on your scrotum. It should raise you DHT level to the upper level.

 

[Graham]

I see so many people on here stating how low dosage gets them sufficient levels of TT and FT. I take 50 mg EOD and I am consistently in the 700’s. I also have a SHBG of 17…

My DHT is also more than double the range.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I see so many people on here stating how low dosage gets them sufficient levels of TT and FT. I take 50 mg EOD and I am consistently in the 700’s. I also have a SHBG of 17…

My DHT is also more than double the range.

What's your free T?

 

[Graham]

What's your free T?

25-30 pg

 

[equel]

The only option you would have in avoiding a shutdown of the HPG axis when using exogenous testosterone is Natesto due to the short-lived peaks and more importantly significant trough times.

Daily prop let alone suspension would never achieve such!


post #89/90

Advice on low dose daily testosterone

FIGURE 1 | Percent change in mean gonadotropin levels (LH & FSH), from baseline through 6 months of testosterone treatment. Nasal testosterone (blue), dosed t.i.d., adapted from (15), n = 33. Topical testosterone (orange), dosed daily, adapted from (9), n = 123. IM injectable - 100 mg...

www.excelmale.com

The shorter the ester, the "less" of a shutdown, ofcourse.

 

[madman]

The shorter the ester, the "less" of a shutdown, ofcourse.

Come again?

The use of exogenous T whether pellets, oral, patch, buccal, transdermal (gel/cream), injectable (short, medium, or long-acting esters), will result in suppression of the HPG axis.

Natesto would be considered the least suppressive due to the short-lived peaks/significant trough times between doses.


* All formulations, with the exception of the short-acting ones, have a target of long-term maintenance of SUSTAINED STEADY-STATE TESTOSTERONE LEVELS IN THE MID-NORMAL RANGE, which leads to suppression of the endogenous activity of the HPG axis

*The inhibition of HPG axis activity is evidenced by the nearly full suppression of gonadotropin levels following treatment with either IM injectable testosterone (10) or topical gel administration (9).



This is key: long-term maintenance of sustained steady-state testosterone levels in the mid-normal range, which leads to suppression of the endogenous activity of the HPG axis.

Topical gel formulations achieve a sustained mid-normal T level with a once-daily application (8). While the topical gel results in less fluctuation of T levels between dosing intervals when compared to IM T, the sustained T levels result in inhibition of HPG axis activity (9). The inhibition of HPG axis activity is evidenced by the nearly full suppression of gonadotropin levels following treatment with either IM injectable testosterone (10) or topical gel administration (9).

Short-acting T therapy to maintain homeostasis that more closely reflects normal physiology

Short-Acting Testosterone: Physiologic? Gerwin Westfield, Ursula B Kaiser, Dolores J Lamb, Ranjith Ramasamy INTRODUCTION Pulsatile secretion of a hormone refers to the intermittent secretion of the hormone in a burst like or episodic manner rather than constantly, with the frequency...

www.excelmale.com

post #78-81

Advice on low dose daily testosterone

I can attest to this. Last year I tried microdosing cypionate EOD out of curiosity. It suppressed my natural production and I ended up feeling worse than my pre-TRT baseline. Natesto nasal gel is an example of testosterone microdosing. It causes some but not complete suppression and the...

www.excelmale.com

 

[equel]

Come again?

The use of exogenous T whether pellets, oral, patch, buccal, transdermal (gel/cream), injectable (short, medium, or long-acting esters), will result in suppression of the HPG axis.

Natesto would be considered the least suppressive due to the short-lived peaks/significant trough times between doses.


* All formulations, with the exception of the short-acting ones, have a target of long-term maintenance of SUSTAINED STEADY-STATE TESTOSTERONE LEVELS IN THE MID-NORMAL RANGE, which leads to suppression of the endogenous activity of the HPG axis

*The inhibition of HPG axis activity is evidenced by the nearly full suppression of gonadotropin levels following treatment with either IM injectable testosterone (10) or topical gel administration (9).



This is key: long-term maintenance of sustained steady-state testosterone levels in the mid-normal range, which leads to suppression of the endogenous activity of the HPG axis.

Topical gel formulations achieve a sustained mid-normal T level with a once-daily application (8). While the topical gel results in less fluctuation of T levels between dosing intervals when compared to IM T, the sustained T levels result in inhibition of HPG axis activity (9). The inhibition of HPG axis activity is evidenced by the nearly full suppression of gonadotropin levels following treatment with either IM injectable testosterone (10) or topical gel administration (9).

Short-acting T therapy to maintain homeostasis that more closely reflects normal physiology

Short-Acting Testosterone: Physiologic? Gerwin Westfield, Ursula B Kaiser, Dolores J Lamb, Ranjith Ramasamy INTRODUCTION Pulsatile secretion of a hormone refers to the intermittent secretion of the hormone in a burst like or episodic manner rather than constantly, with the frequency...

www.excelmale.com

post #78-81

Advice on low dose daily testosterone

I can attest to this. Last year I tried microdosing cypionate EOD out of curiosity. It suppressed my natural production and I ended up feeling worse than my pre-TRT baseline. Natesto nasal gel is an example of testosterone microdosing. It causes some but not complete suppression and the...

www.excelmale.com

Well this is what we are saying, grandpa

 

[madman]

Well this is what we are saying, grandpa

The shorter the ester, the "less" of a shutdown, ofcourse.




Must have gone over your head.

*The inhibition of HPG axis activity is evidenced by the nearly full suppression of gonadotropin levels following treatment with either IM injectable testosterone (10) or topical gel administration (9).

Steady-state levels whether using short (oral TU twice-daily, TP), medium (TC/TE), or long-acting (TU) esters will have a big impact on the shutdown of the HPG axis!

 

[andrewBwinter]

Cat have you seen study about older men producing 5mg on average per day? I read it somewhere but can’t find it now.

If true, it makes me wonder whether us over 50 guys should be targeting our age group norm or that of a younger guy? Let’s be honest here - turning back the clock is what many hope to achieve on TRT.

This. At 56 and 3 months in with 120mg Test-E, I am interested in my age category vs. general details for all age ranges. I wonder if there is a filter.....

 

[Cooper]

This has been a good thread. My SHBG has steadily declined over the years since I began TRT. And I have not been able to make much sense of which protocol/injection frequency works best for me. It seems to be a moving target...and I've tried a lot of different things. And my results do not always match prevailing wisdom.

One thing that works in my favor when evaluating a protocol is that unlike some guys who went on TRT to "feel good" (which is a totally valid reason, however very subjective), I went on TRT for one specific reason - erectile function. It has been effective in this regard, and that is the primary metric that I use for myself to determine whether or not TRT is working. Although there are still variations in EQ on any protocol (and among natural men with no ED issues), it is a relatively objective metric.

As I enter my 5th year on TRT (and with a shut down HPTA) I sometimes worry about what the future may bring. I know that for me, relatively high levels help with symptom resolution. But what is the trade off?

I've never truly tried a low dose daily protocol, such as 10mg/day. 12 weeks seems like such a long time lol... I've used "lower" doses, but they still have some of my numbers out of range/out of balance and are possible unhealthy long-term and ineffective. When my levels are higher, TRT is at least effective, though I suspect still possibly unhealthy long-term.

Part of this post is just sharing a few random thoughts and experiences, but one question I have for more knowledgeable members would be:

We can assume that HPTA is shut down with almost any dose of exogenous injectable testosterone. However, is it shut down "harder" when guys are running higher levels? And if so, would running these higher levels be more likely to cause long-term issues associated with HPTA inactivity than the more "normal" levels one might achieve with the 10mg/day protocol?

I've read about a lot of guys that say they feel way better on the 10mg/day protocol. Happier, healthier, more normal. And I sometimes wonder if they feel better because of a "softer" HPTA shutdown, or if such a concept is even worth considering.

*Note that at all levels, my health markers are all good on lab work. I am not referring to those issues when questioning the long-term risk of TRT. It is the difficult to measure effects of the HPTA shutdown that I'm curious about.

What is your current protocol ?