Is It Possible To Control Estradiol Without Blocker?

Thread starter #1
Recently diagnosed with Low Testosterone. I'm doing my best to get into the High Normal Range of Testosterone with the Estradiol in the normal range. It's very hard to do without the use of Anastrozole (in which even the lowest dose makes me sick.) My mind gets very foggy and unstable even taking 0.25mg of Anastrozole.

From a testosterone injection stand point... I feel very good when injecting every 3rd day. Meaning... if I inject on Monday... Thursday would be the next day.... and then Sunday. The issue is controlling Estradiol. The highest it ever reached with lab work was 82 pg/mL (Normal Range 11-44 pg/mL)

So my question is... if you divided your weekly Test Cyp dose into daily dosing... would that cut down on Estraidol? Or... EOD dosing? I really don't want to inject daily.... or even EOD... to me it's super annoying. But, I'm trying to find a better solution without the help of an Estrogen Blocker. Thank you.
 
#2
Recently diagnosed with Low Testosterone. I'm doing my best to get into the High Normal Range of Testosterone with the Estradiol in the normal range. It's very hard to do without the use of Anastrozole (in which even the lowest dose makes me sick.) My mind gets very foggy and unstable even taking 0.25mg of Anastrozole.

From a testosterone injection stand point... I feel very good when injecting every 3rd day. Meaning... if I inject on Monday... Thursday would be the next day.... and then Sunday. The issue is controlling Estradiol. The highest it ever reached with lab work was 82 pg/mL (Normal Range 11-44 pg/mL)

So my question is... if you divided your weekly Test Cyp dose into daily dosing... would that cut down on Estraidol? Or... EOD dosing? I really don't want to inject daily.... or even EOD... to me it's super annoying. But, I'm trying to find a better solution without the help of an Estrogen Blocker. Thank you.
It might lower your estradiol a little bit. But in regards to the anastrozole, 0.25mg all at once is a big dose. What I used to do is take 0.25mg, which is a 1/4 tab, and take a tiny tiny nibble off of it everyday. I could make one 1/4 tab last 7 days if I wanted it to. 1/4 tab all at once is a huge dose. It’s no wonder that you felt side effects from it.

But I would recommend trying to go without an ai anyways. Just use testosterone alone, no HCG or any other compounds, and inject as frequently as you can. EOD is always my recommendation. Best balance of convenience and efficacy, imo, but if that’s too much, don’t inject less frequently than E3.5D. And if you have high E2 issues, just lower your dose until they go away. And if you need to use an ai, just use the method I recommended above. Start off with making a 1/4 tab last a week, wait 2 weeks, and if symptoms are still there, make the 1/4 tab last 5 days. Just keep repeating the cycle from there. If you go nice and slow, you don’t risk having those side effects you mentioned. Ai’s are strong. I’ve tanked my E2 from 70’s to single digits just off of a 1/4 tab 2x/ week.
 
Thread starter #3
Thanks for the post. I never knew you could tank that easily on a 0.25mg dose?

So, basically you're saying... you might even have to go lower than 0.25mg dose? I have a very precise measuring scale... I should even try like a 0.12mg dose? I guess it's possible? lol

When would you recommend taking the AI dose? Right after injecting? Day before injecting? Curious. (Just asking in case I have to go this route in the future.) Thank you for all of your info. You're a mega help.
 
#4
Anytime man, glad I can help u out. But keep things simple. Don’t worry too much about taking it the day after or same day. It has a different half life and peak timing compared to testosterone, so just take it same day. And you don’t even have to worry about precisely measuring it. All you have to do is make sure you get around the same dose every week. For instance, if I take a little nibble of a 1/4 tab each day, it doesn’t matter if one day the nibble is a little bigger and I get 0.05mg, compared to the next day where maybe I take a smaller nibble and get 0.03mg. All that matters is that you make the 1/4 tab last a week, and try ur best to take even bites each day. There’s no need to overcomplicate things. Just keep things simple and you’ll be fine.
 
#5
Wrong E2 testing, 11-44 is the wrong test, and then there's no mention of TT/FT, or even the dose that you're using.

It's extremely poor to dispense E management advice when there are gaping holes in what the guy is posting @Gman86
 
#7
Wrong E2 testing, 11-44 is the wrong test, and then there's no mention of TT/FT, or even the dose that you're using.

It's extremely poor to dispense E management advice when there are gaping holes in what the guy is posting @Gman86
Ya you’re right. OP should probably disregard my advice on whether to take the ai or not, but the information on how to take it, if you choose to, is still valuable, imo.
 

Cataceous

Well-Known Member
#8
If you're going to take an AI then use a more precise method for micro-dosing. One way is to dissolve a one milligram tablet into 10 milliliters of vodka. Then dose with an oral one-milliliter syringe, and each one-tenth milliliter gives you 10 micrograms (mcg) or 0.01 milligrams. I use this technique to take 35 mcg per day, which is close to a quarter of a milligram a week.
 
Thread starter #9
Wrong E2 testing, 11-44 is the wrong test, and then there's no mention of TT/FT, or even the dose that you're using.

It's extremely poor to dispense E management advice when there are gaping holes in what the guy is posting @Gman86
Didn't know there were different Estradiol tests? Only doing what the doctor advised me of. They did a total Estrogen test which was 401 pg/mL (Normal Range 40-115 pg/mL)... then they did an Estradiol test which was 82 pg/mL (Normal Range 11-44 pg/mL)

What other Estrogen tests should I be taking?
 

Cataceous

Well-Known Member
#10
... then they did an Estradiol test which was 82 pg/mL (Normal Range 11-44 pg/mL)

What other Estrogen tests should I be taking?
He's referring to a mass spectrometry-based, so-called "sensitive" test. This type of test is sometimes preferred because a standard immunoassay test is prone to falsely elevating the measured estradiol level. However, the effect usually is not so large, and with your estradiol pushing twice the top of the normal range I think it's safe to say it's high, regardless.
 
Thread starter #11
He's referring to a mass spectrometry-based, so-called "sensitive" test. This type of test is sometimes preferred because a standard immunoassay test is prone to falsely elevating the measured estradiol level. However, the effect usually is not so large, and with your estradiol pushing twice the top of the normal range I think it's safe to say it's high, regardless.
I appreciate your time and follow up. I've been trying to learn all of this since February 2019. I thought the most accurate test was called E2? I also thought E2 was the sensitive test?

I asked my doctor for the sensitive test 2 months ago. Then I was referred to an Endocrinologist. My doctor gives me a lab document already filled out. I actually see my Endo tomorrow. What Estrogen Test should I request? If I could post this lab worksheet on here... maybe someone could let me know? The only thing I see on the worksheet is Estradiol.
 

Cataceous

Well-Known Member
#12
I appreciate your time and follow up. I've been trying to learn all of this since February 2019. I thought the most accurate test was called E2? I also thought E2 was the sensitive test?

I asked my doctor for the sensitive test 2 months ago. Then I was referred to an Endocrinologist. My doctor gives me a lab document already filled out. I actually see my Endo tomorrow. What Estrogen Test should I request? If I could post this lab worksheet on here... maybe someone could let me know? The only thing I see on the worksheet is Estradiol.
To clarify, these are just different kinds of estradiol tests. Estradiol is also known as E2. This is the most potent estrogen. My point was that regardless of test methodology, a result of 82 with a reference range ending at 44 is elevated enough to potentially cause symptoms. You don't need to test again unless something has changed.

Do you have measurements of SHBG and total testosterone? These can be used to calculate free testosterone. If your free testosterone is high then you'll have some leeway to lower estradiol via dose reduction. Dosing more frequently but with the same weekly total will not change average estradiol much, but should reduce peak estradiol, which could still be useful.
 
#13
Recently diagnosed with Low Testosterone. I'm doing my best to get into the High Normal Range of Testosterone with the Estradiol in the normal range. It's very hard to do without the use of Anastrozole (in which even the lowest dose makes me sick.) My mind gets very foggy and unstable even taking 0.25mg of Anastrozole.

From a testosterone injection stand point... I feel very good when injecting every 3rd day. Meaning... if I inject on Monday... Thursday would be the next day.... and then Sunday. The issue is controlling Estradiol. The highest it ever reached with lab work was 82 pg/mL (Normal Range 11-44 pg/mL)

So my question is... if you divided your weekly Test Cyp dose into daily dosing... would that cut down on Estraidol? Or... EOD dosing? I really don't want to inject daily.... or even EOD... to me it's super annoying. But, I'm trying to find a better solution without the help of an Estrogen Blocker. Thank you.
I have been on TRT for 3 years. I tried unsuccessfully to go off trt sometimes because of high estradiol and testicular shrinking, but for the last 8 month I seem to have found my way to control both issues, and no use of any AI.
I even tried every day testosterone Injections but the very stable normal level of testosterone didn't work for me and I think it is due to accumulative effect, and the body needs some circadian rhythm to clear and level off things. With a dose of 100 mg per week (divided into ED doses) after 3 months I was having high estradiol, top normal Hematocrit, bloating, High BP...
Then, the last thing I tried (And is still working pretty good) was:
1.- Establish the minimum dose of HCG which keeps my testicles normal size: It is about 250 IU twice a week. That helps to control estradiol cause the more HCG, the more Estradiol Tescticles produce.
2.- Establish the maximum dose of testosterone I could use long term keeping pretty stable blood levels, without developing high estradiol levels and symptoms: It was about 78 mg per week: Undecanoate testosterone (Reandron, -Nebido in USA-) 200 mg every 18 days (that dose make me feel physically and mentally well, but no strong libido and erections)
3.- With the above mentioned "basal treatment" I added a weekly (once a week) dose of cypionate testosterone of 25 mg wich completes a total weekly amount of 100 mg testosterone which makes me feel amazing...
Those 25 mg make a small roller coaster that I consider key to control estradiol. Some times, during the week I feel a day like high estradiol symptoms are about to happen, but much before the next 25 mg cypionate dose y feel again pretty good and libido through the roof... Also, this way my mood is very stable along the week without swinging, I get to be always the same optimistic and proactive person, depressive mood don't happen.
If somebody finds this interesting, please, don't ask me for my recent labs, I quited persecuting my numbers, what counts for me is the way I feel (just better than ever). Once I feel dealt in with trt, I would take Lab tests only once a year.
 
Last edited:
#14
I have been on TRT for 3 years. I tried unsuccessfully to go off trt sometimes because of high estradiol and testicular shrinking, but for the last 8 month I seem to have found my way to control both issues, and no use of any AI.
I even tried every day testosterone Injections but the very stable normal level of testosterone didn't work for me and I think it is due to accumulative effect, and the body needs some circadian rhythm to clear and level off things. With a dose of 100 mg per week (divided into ED doses) after 3 months I was having high estradiol, top normal Hematocrit, bloating, High BP...
Then, the last thing I tried (And is still working pretty good) was:
1.- Establish the minimum dose of HCG which keeps my testicles normal size: It is about 250 IU twice a week. That helps to control estradiol cause the more HCG, the more Estradiol Tescticles produce.
2.- Establish the maximum dose of testosterone I could use long term keeping pretty stable blood levels, without developing high estradiol levels and symptoms: It was about 78 mg per week: Undecanoate testosterone (Reandron, -Nebido in USA-) 200 mg every 18 days (that dose make me feel physically and mentally well, but no strong libido and erections)
3.- With the above mentioned "basal treatment" I added a weekly (once a week) dose of cypionate testosterone of 25 mg wich completes a total weekly amount of 100 mg testosterone which makes me feel amazing...
Those 25 mg make a small roller coaster that I consider key to control estradiol. Some times, during the week I feel a day like high estradiol symptoms are about to happen, but much before the next 25 mg cypionate dose y feel again pretty good and libido through the roof... Also, this way my mood is very stable along the week without swinging, I get to be always the same optimistic and proactive person, depressive mood don't happen.
If somebody finds this interesting, please, don't ask me for my recent labs, I quited persecuting my numbers, what counts for me is the way I feel (just better than ever). Once I feel dealt in with trt, I would take Lab tests only once a year.
May be somebody wonder how I manage my protocol in such unusual and personal way, and adjust it as my own will. I understand that not everybody can do that since they depend on their doctor opinion and rules. Well, I have the advantage that my wife is a family doctor and I am a physician too... (we are in Spain), I post my protocol here anyway, cause for me it is being wonderful.
 
#15
Jucaro , como logras dosificar Nebido , en mi caso la unica presentacion de nebido que hay disponibles es en ampolla ,otro inconveniente en mi caso es que no tiene alcohol bencilico como conservante .
 
#16
Jucaro , como logras dosificar Nebido , en mi caso la unica presentacion de nebido que hay disponibles es en ampolla ,otro inconveniente en mi caso es que no tiene alcohol bencilico como conservante .
En ampolla lo veo difícil, a no ser que sea re-envasado en un vial. Aquí en España se comercializa como Reandron, que se presenta en viales de 1 gr/4ml, tiene una tapa de goma, con lo cual es muy fácil de dosificar, a razón de 100 mg/4décimas. Yo jamás lo usaría a dosis completa, porque el estradiol me subiría al cielo... en cambio lo inyecto fraccionadamente en el cuádriceps (superficial) y ha sido estupendo, me ha solucionado muchos problemas que con el cipionato solo nunca pude resolver.
 
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