How Do you Control your Estradiol Levels?

[KenLowT]

Hi guys,
I'm wondering how you guys keep your estradiol levels in a good range. Even before TRT I had higher than normal estradiol levels, probably due to my weight and high body fat. I'm 42 years old, 5'7 and 263 lbs, even with working out 6 times a week and maintaining a healthy caloric deficit. I'll be working with Defy to get my thyroid issues under control as well, but I'm wondering what strategies you guys are using to keep those estradiol levels in check. I myself am using 200mg of DIM, but I don't think that's enough to keep my levels within that 20's range sweet spot. I saw a drop in estradiol with the reduction in my protocol, but I worry that dropping the dosage further will take away the other benefits that I've been experiencing; increased strength and energy, better overall mood. My main issue is libido which TRT has thus far not helped with. I'm thinking that it's because my estradiol levels are not low enough to feel the sexual effects. Will increasing the frequency of shots help? I'm wondering if Defy will recommend getting on an AI considering that I continually have had high estradiol. Below are my labs from my first two protocols:

1st Protocol: 175mg per week (Quest Diagnostics Tests)
Total T: 657 <250-1100 ng/dl>
Free T: 176.2 <35.0-155.0 pg/ml>
Estradiol Sensitive: 81 <or=39 pg/ml>
SHBG: 27 <10-50>

2nd Protocol: 100mg per week, 50mg 2x per week (Lab Corp)
Total T: 664 <264-916>
Free T: 12.4 <6.8-21.5>
Estradiol Sensitive: 39.1 <8-35.0>
SHBG: 25.9 <16.5-55.5>

I don't have my first consult with Defy until August 22nd, but I'm wondering whether the high estradiol is ultimately the reason I have seen no libido response on the TRT. I wouldn't mind taking an AI, but so many people on here have spoken against it which makes me feel a little bit apprehensive about trying it. I was thinking of doubling up on my DIM supplement to 400mg daily to see if I can bring it down even further, but I don't know if that'll be even enough. If my estradiol level is that high on trough day when my T is at it's lowest, I can't imagine how high that E2 level will be after each injection. I personally feel that the DIM supplement is probably helping me not get hot flashes with that much estradiol in my system. I started taking them when I started on Clomid in December. Clomid made me have like 7 hot flashes a day and only the DIM took that away. Just curious to see what your doctors at Defy or other places have recommended concerning regulating estradiol levels like mine. Thanks

 

[IamNotShepard]

You can always try to inject every day. It may lower your E2 down just enough, because yes, your e2 is elevated but not that much. I've also heard that zinc can lower your estriadol too. I don't know by how much, though. Worth trying, since it won't do you any harm. The recommendation of maximum tolerable dosage of zinc is 40mg if i remember correctly.

 

[KenLowT]

You can always try to inject every day. It may lower your E2 down just enough, because yes, your e2 is elevated but not that much. I've also heard that zinc can lower your estriadol too. I don't know by how much, though. Worth trying, since it won't do you any harm. The recommendation of maximum tolerable dosage of zinc is 40mg if i remember correctly.

I think the most I would want to inject is 3x per week. Every day would be too much. My injections right now hurt enough and that's just 2x per week. I may use a higher gauge to see how that feels. My main thing though is that I've been taking this DIM for almost a year. I think they work more for people whose E2 levels are slightly above the 20's. I'm still out of range. Zinc might be good, but like I said before if my levels were at 39 during trough day, it must be sky high after each injection. How much could a supplement really do to help if E2 skyrockets after each test hit.

 

[Will Brink]

The best thing you can do for your E2 levels, is what you're attempting to do: lose bodyfat. Nothing OTC, DIM, etc is going to have a major impact. Avoid an AI if possible, but work with Defy to dial in what's best. Good luck.

 

[Blackhawk]

I think the most I would want to inject is 3x per week. Every day would be too much. My injections right now hurt enough

How are you injecting and with what gear, syringe, needle length and gauge? Injections should not hurt you that much.

 

[KenLowT]

How are you injecting and with what gear, syringe, needle length and gauge? Injections should not hurt you that much.

25 gauge, 1 inch needle, 1L luer lock Easy Touch. I go into the side of my thigh. They didn't hurt before, but now they do.

 

[KenLowT]

The best thing you can do for your E2 levels, is what you're attempting to do: lose bodyfat. Nothing OTC, DIM, etc is going to have a major impact. Avoid an AI if possible, but work with Defy to dial in what's best. Good luck.

Yes, I believe the body fat will come off once the doctors at Defy can get my thyroid optimized. I've been at it for a year with no success. Saw an endocrinologist who diagnosed me with Hashimoto's, but my numbers were still low normal so she couldn't prescribe me anything. I was also using her for my testosterone replacement, but she couldn't prescribe HCG along with it so I figured I'd kill two birds with one stone with Defy. Now I'm in the waiting phase, but in the meantime this lack of libido is killing me. This estradiol needs to come down. If I were to take an AI my hope would be that I'd be able to get off of it once the thyroid is optimized and my body fat starts to come down.

 

[Blackhawk]

25 gauge, 1 inch needle, 1L luer lock Easy Touch. I go into the side of my thigh. They didn't hurt before, but now they do.

There is no reason to use such large needles. You could try 1/2" 27-29g for shallow IM and probably do a lot better. If you are using cottonseed oil 27g would be better. If grapeseed 29g is fine.

Also injection site selection can matter. Different people react differently to different sites. Ventroglute, deltoid, quads, also SubQ belly, love handles etc... There are probably 100 threads on this topic on excelmale.

With your extra weight/fat layer, subQ may not be great for you but might be worth trying as well.

 

[KenLowT]

I'm wondering why AI's turn off a lot of people. It seems like for a guy like me with high BF %, it might help get my estradiol down while increasing my libido without having to go down further in my protocol.

 

[MarkM]

Ken, some people have success lowering E2 some with Calcium D-Glucarate. It won't bring it don't a great deal but i have read that it can reduce it 5 points. I think the suggestion was 500 mg AM and 500 mg PM. Sometimes 5 points is just enough.

My E2 sits a little bit lower than yours at 35.3. I don't take an AI and don't have symptoms.

 

[KenLowT]

Ken, some people have success lowering E2 some with Calcium D-Glucarate. It won't bring it don't a great deal but i have read that it can reduce it 5 points. I think the suggestion was 500 mg AM and 500 mg PM. Sometimes 5 points is just enough.

My E2 sits a little bit lower than yours at 35.3. I don't take an AI and don't have symptoms.

Mark, do you have a good working libido even with this E2 level? Did you have libido issues before TRT like myself? Do you take any supplements to control it?

 

[DragonBits]

I'm wondering why AI's turn off a lot of people. It seems like for a guy like me with high BF %, it might help get my estradiol down while increasing my libido without having to go down further in my protocol.

I think it's because it's so easy to overdose with AI and crash your estradiol.

You don't know getting your estradiol down will increase your libido. When you changed from 1 big injection to two smaller ones, it cut your estradiol down, you could try to go to 3 injections a week of 33-40 mg, that would increase your TT/FT and likely decrease your estradiol.

 

[Nashtide]

Don't get married to the idea that lowering your E2 will bring your libido back. Lots of things factor into a good libido. As a matter of fact, I'd say libido is the most elusive of all the symptoms to relieve.

 

[KenLowT]

I think it's because it's so easy to overdose with AI and crash your estradiol.

You don't know getting your estradiol down will increase your libido. When you changed from 1 big injection to two smaller ones, it cut your estradiol down, you could try to go to 3 injections a week of 33-40 mg, that would increase your TT/FT and likely decrease your estradiol.

I'm pretty sure the estradiol went down more because of the huge drop in dosage, but I do think switching to 3x per week would help it come down a little bit more. I'm reluctant to change the protocol until I've spoken to a doctor, but is changing the frequency considered a protocol change?

 

[KenLowT]

Don't get married to the idea that lowering your E2 will bring your libido back. Lots of things factor into a good libido. As a matter of fact, I'd say libido is the most elusive of all the symptoms to relieve.

I have to find hope. TRT has been good to me in every other area. Perhaps I'm not wired to be a sexual beast, but I need to have a working libido. 5-6 times per year is a joke and a huge strain on my marriage.

 

[Vince]

I've never had high estradiol, maybe because I'm primary hypo. Before I started trt my level was unreadable.

 

[MarkM]

Mark, do you have a good working libido even with this E2 level? Did you have libido issues before TRT like myself? Do you take any supplements to control it?

I have always had a great libido pre-TRT and since I began TRT 13 years ago. I started to take some DIM recently, more as an experiment, to see if it would make any impact on my E2 but have only been taking it for a couple of weeks.

I was going to try Calcium D-Glucarate but my iron and ferritin have been low so I held off trying it because calcium interferes with iron absorption. Once I get my iron and ferritin up I think I will try the Calcium D-Glucarate and see if it lowers it.

I don't feel a need to lower my E2 but as time goes by and I get older I may have a need for something so I'm trying to be ahead of the game and try these two out.

 

[MarkM]

Don't get married to the idea that lowering your E2 will bring your libido back. Lots of things factor into a good libido. As a matter of fact, I'd say libido is the most elusive of all the symptoms to relieve.

I have read about several individuals who have what I would call high E2 in my mind, just from a numbers standpoint, and they claim they have a fantastic libido.

 

[KenLowT]

I have read about several individuals who have what I would call high E2 in my mind, just from a numbers standpoint, and they claim they have a fantastic libido.

Yes, it's a very complex thing to nail down. With TRT I no longer have anxiety so I can't say my libido issues are linked to that. I also now take Super Cortisol support which has been helping. My prolactin is not high and I don't have any psychological problem. I have no idea about dopamine receptors and would not even know how to test for that. My Total T and Free T numbers look decent, but my estradiol is a little high so I'm wondering if that's it.

 

[Systemlord]

I had an insane libido when E2 was high, don't know where it was only that my chest would burn, nipples tingling and chest very sore. I've even had erections while E2 is low, scored a 12.5 last week and erections were present, but not always maintainable.

I've always had hypersexuality so maybe I'm just have a good functioning libido within a wide range, others not so lucky. Some find out for libido to function well, E2 needs to be within a narrow range, be outside this range and libido is elusive.