Increasing my HcG dosing/frequency

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I've yet to really enjoy the sexual side of my TRT therapy. I'm experiencing ED; tough to get and maintain an erection. I can't say that my libido is great, I think it's good, I certainly see attractive females and have the thoughts but the physical response is nil. I have been recently experiencing some REM Sleep Wood (I've let my E2 rise from a sensitive 19/32 standard) which is an improvement, but no morning wood nor any spontaneous erections. I've experimented with generic Sildenafil with fair to good results. I think it was only fair with low E2, but is better since reducing Adex.

What I want is to explore these reports of HcG and increased well-being and increased libido. I've been on TCyp injec w/o HcG, so I can report that when HcG was added, I didn't experience any improvement in my therapy or well being, just from the HcG addition.

I want to know about moving up from this minimum maintenance dose of 250iu EOD, I mean, I'm keeping the testes awake but they weren't working too well before that anyway. (I was never diagnosed primary or secondary Hypogonadal). Is that understandable? Fertility is of no concern to me, I'm 42 and have a 19 year old Son.

I don't know...increased HcG EOD?, I know Gene has put forth a daily injection method at a lower dose. I'm considering a couple of weeks of 400iu EOD and want to know what the hive has to say on HcG dosing and frequency.

Synopsis of my protocol: I was on 105mg 1x week, no HcG, with a large national "chain" clinic and getting great TT and FT in my trough; TT @ 892. Estradiol was an up and down thing, as high as 56, as low as 8 with 'standard' testing. When I left that clinic I tested at 36 standard and I was using Anastrozole @ .25mg E3D.

For 90 days I've been with another clinic that is facilitating self-injections 2x week, with HcG, and access to Anastrozole. Initially I was injecting 75mg E3.5D, the very common .250iu EOD of HcG, and .25mg Adex EOD. In a trough after 6 weeks I tested @ TT 806 and the physician consented to me increasing TCyp to 97mg E3.5D.

I've battled with E2 and have rejected the path I was following that Adex is mandatory and adopted the "sensitive" testing that I procure on my own. I stopped Adex for 9 days and concurrently restarted with the new 97mg TCyp, with Adex @ .25mg 24hr post-injection, just .5mg total per week.

This reduced adex dosing and increased TCyp is working for me. I feel better and look better. I wanted my E2 to rise from 19 sensitive and I've worked toward that. Though I don't feel "horny" even in my TCyp peak of 24-48hrs. a Horny man is a happy man, right?

I don't know where to go from here..increased HcG EOD? I know Gene has put forth a daily injection method at a lower dose. I'm considering a couple of weeks of 400iu EOD and want to know what the hive has to say on HcG dosing and frequency. I understand 500iu is typically the limit on a TRT protocol. I was prescribed 600iu 3x week, but that sounds like too much. I don't need to add-in an increased E2 pathway either with high doses of HcG.
 
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Gene Devine

Super Moderator
Libido is influenced by so many physical and psychological factors it's very hard to point to one thing; but we can eliminate some somethings.

You need to stabilize E2.

Also, have you gotten Prolactin checked?

What do your all of your Thyroid labs look like?
 
Re: my E2, I have a sensitive test set for 17 Jan, that'll give me 6 weeks on the new TCyp and reduced Adex dosings.

I did on my last bloods (dec 2014)ask and receive, Prolactin: 5.3 (2.0-18.0ng ng/mL)

It's been at least 9 months since my last Thyroid panel, I do have that set up along with the Estradiol. I know when I and my PCP reviewed those that they were in range but I wish I could say more, but I can't at this moment. I have been using 2% Lygols for about a month, in the morning, they say 1 drop = ~3mg, I've been using 10 drops.

Supps:
Progesterone TD 1/4tsp or ~22mg
Horny Goat Weed
L-Tyrosine
L-Arginine
Pycgonel(?)
GNC Mens multi-Vit

1 prescribed medication: 400mg Acyclovir 2x Day

I've had very negative experiences with DHEA oral, as low as 25mg seems to spike my E2, it's not good for me. I have tested DHEA-S @ 160 (70-495) which I know is low(er).
 
Last edited:

Gene Devine

Super Moderator
You need to test Prolactin; elevated to mid levels in older men can and will suppress libido.

Full Thyroid to include these labs:

TSH
Free T4
Free T3
RT3
Thyroid antibodies

In range when it comes to the Thyroid does not mean "normal".
 
You need to test Prolactin; elevated to mid levels in older men can and will suppress libido.

Full Thyroid to include these labs:

TSH
Free T4
Free T3
RT3
Thyroid antibodies

In range when it comes to the Thyroid does not mean "normal".

I think we posted concurrently, my Prolactin test is there.
I'll note your thyroids and do those. I understand in range is not necessarily normal.
 

Gene Devine

Super Moderator
Prolactin is fine.

Why are you taking Progesterone??? This is very feminizing hormone and I wouldn't doubt for a moment that it's hurting you libido. Men don't need Progesterone.

Are your meds known to suppress libido? Have you done your research on these to see if they may be contributing?
 
The progesterone was just a product of reading associated with Pregnenelone(?) I'll take advice on that but my issues far preceed a week of Progesterone.
The one med I eliminated with a reported ED side effect was Omeprazole (antacid), proton pump inhibitor(?) but eliminating that made no difference in the libido and ED world.
 

Vettester Chris

Super Moderator
Agree with Gene, there's just too many variables to make it a simple answer. If your E2 sensitive is at 19pg, I probably wouldn't even mess with an AI, but that's just me. Keep in mind, the body is constantly trying to achieve homeostasis. Look further upstream as noted by Gene .. Look at DHEA, pregnenolone, thyroid, cortisol, and D3. In my case, I haven't had any AI in close to two (2) years! Don't need it.

IMO, you might be putting too much emphasis on testosterone to be the one trick pony. As you've stated, you've been battling E2, yet at the same time you have "upped" your protocol dosage of cyp, and you are looking at a 400iu EOD of HCG. At a glance, that's just going to contribute back to the same pattern you have already been experiencing, where E2 will climb, more AI gets introduced, etc., etc., ...

What "if" you could lower your test serum, stabilize and optimize estrogen serum through other pathway channels from precursor hormones like pregnenolone and DHEA, and balance other variables like ATP, GABA, energy, etc., stemming from the thyroid & adrenals (cortisol), and other hormones & supplements, e.g., D3, B12 Methyl, Omegas, ... (?)
 
Agree with Gene, there's just too many variables to make it a simple answer. If your E2 sensitive is at 19pg, I probably wouldn't even mess with an AI, but that's just me. Keep in mind, the body is constantly trying to achieve homeostasis. Look further upstream as noted by Gene .. Look at DHEA, pregnenolone, thyroid, cortisol, and D3. In my case, I haven't had any AI in close to two (2) years! Don't need it.

IMO, you might be putting too much emphasis on testosterone to be the one trick pony. As you've stated, you've been battling E2, yet at the same time you have "upped" your protocol dosage of cyp, and you are looking at a 400iu EOD of HCG. At a glance, that's just going to contribute back to the same pattern you have already been experiencing, where E2 will climb, more AI gets introduced, etc., etc., ...

What "if" you could lower your test serum, stabilize and optimize estrogen serum through other pathway channels from precursor hormones like pregnenolone and DHEA, and balance other variables like ATP, GABA, energy, etc., stemming from the thyroid & adrenals (cortisol), and other hormones & supplements, e.g., D3, B12 Methyl, Omegas, ...

I stated that the 19 sensitive is the result of .25mg EOD, do I misunderstand you? I too would like to not take an AI, and that is a goal as I significantly reduced that dosage and frequency lately because 19 is too low. For me, it seems.

I'm not fixated on TCyp as a solution, testing showed I can go higher, that's all. Im thoroughly enjoying nearly all the other benefits, i.e., my gym performance is dramatically improved, my moods are elevated and much more stable, the mild depression disappeared. It's the lingering sexual side of all this...I would NOT at this point shoot any more TCyp.

Re: DHEA I said Ive had bad experience with that as low as 25mg/daily. I would like to try a sublingual or TD, IF it had less chance to aromatize.
You state Pregnenolone, but Gene got me for taking Progesterone, one begets the other so now I'm confused...?
 

JIMO

New Member
Supplementing with Pregnenolone helps to back fill all the precursor agents in the hormone cascade. I've notice an improvement with cortisol and erection quality on Pregnenolone MLM pills 200mgs a day. I just have to be careful if I take to much it converts to estrogen and negates all the positive benefits of the supplement.
 
Re; thyroid if it matters I've got a history or running on the coolside temperature wise, I've never tracked it my own throughout the day but from different office visits:

416pm 36.1 DegC
426pm 36.6 DegC
930am
35.0 DegC
833am
36.2 DegC
409pm
36.6 DegC
 

Vettester Chris

Super Moderator
I stated that the 19 sensitive is the result of .25mg EOD, do I misunderstand you? I too would like to not take an AI, and that is a goal as I significantly reduced that dosage and frequency lately because 19 is too low. For me, it seems.

I'm not fixated on TCyp as a solution, testing showed I can go higher, that's all. Im thoroughly enjoying nearly all the other benefits, i.e., my gym performance is dramatically improved, my moods are elevated and much more stable, the mild depression disappeared. It's the lingering sexual side of all this...I would NOT at this point shoot any more TCyp.

Re: DHEA I said Ive had bad experience with that as low as 25mg/daily. I would like to try a sublingual or TD, IF it had less chance to aromatize.
You state Pregnenolone, but Gene got me for taking Progesterone, one begets the other so now I'm confused...?

Vince, I was putting together my post when you and Gene had posted right before me. On the pregnenolone, it is the precursor to all other hormones. Much different than taking exogenous progesterone. On the DHEA, I take a compounded cream and for me it works great. That could be one option to possibly look at.
 
I know I could use the DHEA so finding that low aromatizing delivery method, I've been reading up on other than oral. SO I should switch from Progesterone to Pregnenolone...got it.
 

Vettester Chris

Super Moderator
Yes, variances in body temps can be a marker. First, like Gene stated, get the thyroid labs, and let's see what they say. If at some point your physician deems that thyroid treatment is warranted (NDT or synthetic), we can use your body temp average (3x per day over the course of 5 days) to help gauge your medication and titration if needed. The cart is way before the horse at this point, so start with labs and let's see the results ...
 

HarryCat

Member
I was prescribed 600iu 3x week, but that sounds like too much. I don't need to add-in an increased E2 pathway either with high doses of HcG.

FWIW, Dr. Shippen starts his HCG-mono patients off at 500IU on M-W-F then he checks T and Quest Ultrasensitive E2, and adjusts dose from there.
 
FWIW, Dr. Shippen starts his HCG-mono patients off at 500IU on M-W-F then he checks T and Quest Ultrasensitive E2, and adjusts dose from there.

That's at least one source that I based my comment about 500iu being I think the upper range in, even though it's a "mono" therapy dose, no Test. So there's room to optimize, like the rest of the regimen and protocols, I'm sure 250iu EOD isn't the optimum for everyone..and that's what I'm curious about.
 
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