Injection frequency - DHT?

[S1W]

Is there any kind of relationship with injection frequency and DHT levels? For example, I have found that spreading out injections lowers my HCT levels. Others find that it lowers E2.

I'm having a hard time imagining that injection frequency could affect DHT levels and would think that it would have more to do with overall TT/FT levels as T converts to DHT. But I figured I'd ask the hive.

Thanks.

 

[Vince]

I've never heard of injection frequency affect DHT levels. I've only had my DHT levels checked twice. Last time it was DHT 54.0 range 30 - 85

 

[antelopers]

I would imagine that larger, less frequent injections would lead to higher spikes, and that smaller more frequent injections would give a more stable level, but that averages would be about the same.

 

[Cataceous]

I would imagine that larger, less frequent injections would lead to higher spikes, and that smaller more frequent injections would give a more stable level, but that averages would be about the same.

I think so too. The unusual exception is if the large, infrequent injections drive testosterone so high that you get saturation effects with 5-alpha reductase. Then you could see a little reduction in average levels of DHT.

 

[antelopers]

I think so too. The unusual exception is if the large, infrequent injections drive testosterone so high that you get saturation effects with 5-alpha reductase. Then you could see a little reduction in average levels of DHT.

Do you have any idea around what point that saturation effect would occur? I would guess the dose would have to be beyond what most of us use for trt.

 

[Cataceous]

Do you have any idea around what point that saturation effect would occur? I would guess the dose would have to be beyond what most of us use for trt.

If you look at the lower two graphs you see that the rollover is becoming more pronounced at around 800-1,000 ng/dL. But the effect doesn't really become prominent until around 1,000-2,000 ng/dL.

Ref.

 

[antelopers]

If you look at the lower two graphs you see that the rollover is becoming more pronounced at around 800-1,000 ng/dL. But the effect doesn't really become prominent until around 1,000-2,000 ng/dL.
View attachment 9352
Ref.

That's actually a lot lower than I expected.

My dht from my last test where total t was 1200 was 99, so that's probably around where my saturation is.

 

[S1W]

Thanks guys - confirmed my suspicions.

Which leads to my next question:

Suppose my protocol was 120mg/week (60mg T Cyp E3.5D) and I wanted to add 1 click 200mg/ml cream daily (50mg) to increase DHT.

Any idea how much I should reduce my weekly cyp dose to account for the cream?

From past experience I know that "50mg" cream does not exactly correlate to 50mg of a weekly dose of cypionate.

 

[Cataceous]

...
Suppose my protocol was 120mg/week (60mg T Cyp E3.5D) and I wanted to add 1 click 200mg/ml cream daily (50mg) to increase DHT.

Any idea how much I should reduce my weekly cyp dose to account for the cream?

From past experience I know that "50mg" cream does not exactly correlate to 50mg of a weekly dose of cypionate.

Typically these doses would correlate, because transdermal absorption is around 10% (50 mg TD * 10% * 7 days = 50 mg cyp * 70%). But there's plenty of individual variation, both in the absorption rate and in the rate of metabolite formation.

What are the trough serum levels and doses that suggest a different ratio?

 

[S1W]

Typically these doses would correlate, because transdermal absorption is around 10% (50 mg TD * 10% * 7 days = 50 mg cyp * 70%). But there's plenty of individual variation, both in the absorption rate and in the rate of metabolite formation.

What are the trough serum levels and doses that suggest a different ratio?

Thanks for that info. Great way of looking at it.

I have labs from both cream protocols and injection protocols buried somewhere, but I guess my statement about the doses not being apples to apples is more of how I feel subjectively.

However, I do remember that 3 clicks per day of cream (2x AM, 1x PM) had my TT levels at around 850 at trough, whereas 120mg cyp E3.5D will have my TT levels around 1000 at trough.

Do you think the best approach would be to simply drop my weekly cypionate dose down to 70mg/week if I were to add 1 click per day of cream?

 

[Cataceous]

...
Do you think the best approach would be to simply drop my weekly cypionate dose down to 70mg/week if I were to add 1 click per day of cream?

That's what I'd do. It could be a small dose reduction, but you've got plenty of room for one given that your peak on cypionate might be pushing 1,500 ng/dL.