Hello Excelmale! Is this the right time/approach?

GymClassHero

New Member
Hello,

I've lurked for quite a long time and done a lot of reading. After getting somewhat overwhelmed I figured i'd just try to condense my story and ask the good people here for their thoughts, advice and/or words of wisdom. This has been quite a journey for me & before I apply the cream/HCG injections my DR just gave me I want to make sure there's nothing he nor I overlooked. (I'm excited and nervous to get started)

I've been diagnosed with Low T and diabetic hypogonadotropic hypogonadism. I have all the symptoms associated with low T other than low sex drive. I gather that its rare but I do NOT want my sex drive to increase if I can avoid it. I do want my mood, energy and response to workout to get a lot better however. My wife & I are newly wed and were planning on having another child next year, so fertility is important to us still. I've also worked very, very hard to drop a ton of weight but still find myself at 275 (which is much lighter than I was a year ago) These have been extremely hard fought battles in the gym for years and I believe low T is a significant factor in that. My arms are muscular, my legs are muscular, and all of me other than my enormous gut is thin. My Dr. tried to first tell me that 224 NG/DL was normal but after a year of herbals, great T inducing diet and working out i'm still only at 320 NG/DL. Before these herbals i've never tried anything that would've changed my T levels.

My bloodwork was mostly unremarkable accept for a few numbers that concern me and I wanted to post them below to see if they bring about any thoughts or concerns for the people here that know this chemistry so much better than I (Or a lot of GP doctors from what i've read) So I'll just leave you all with those numbers and welcome any insight you may have.

LH 4.4 MLU/ML
FSH 5.3 MLU/ML
DHEA-S 639 UG/DL!!! (Should I be worried this is so much over the upper limit)
Andro 92 NG/DL
Total T 320 NG/DL
DHT 21 NG/DL (What is the reference range for not going bald?)
SHBG 36.3 NMO/L
Free T 7.21 NG/DL
E 9.5 PG/ML (I'd like benefits of more E without excess emotion/water retention. Sweetspot/methods?)
IGF-1 104 NG/DL
Total C 144 (Should I be concerned its too low? Will T be a detriment to my cholesterol?)
HDL 31
LDL 72
VLDL 38
ALP 126 IU/L (Low T with higher alkaline Phosphatase is a marker of osteoporosis!)
RBC 6.37 (always high)
Hematocrit 50.6 ( Always high)

Do any of these number speak to you? And should we be paying attention to anything specifically? I really don't want more Osteo problems and I have the first serious injury of my life right now. Bulged discs that are occasionally debilitating & really slowing my workout progression!!
 

Vince

Moderator
Since you are young and you want to remain fertile. TRT would not be for you. You should look into Enclomiphene, it might be something that will work for you, especially because of your age.

We have a threat on it, that you may have already read.

 

Systemlord

Member
That single digit estrogen (converted from testosterone) and ALP value doesn't bold well for bone density, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if you were diagnosed with osteoporosis. TRT will make your bones strong and might even take away your back pain or at least assist you in the healing process.

You might need HCG together with your TRT if you can't get estrogen to at least 35 pg/mL on TRT in isolation. You could freeze sperm, go on TRT and when you want kids add HCG and FSH to your TRT protocol.

You can also stop TRT and start clomid therapy to restart spermatogenesis. DHT is a contributor to hair loss, it's not the primary cause, but if you are prone to hair loss TRT can accelerate it. I would rather go bald than walk around with hollow bones.

Your dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is low and is converted from testosterone, low DHT levels tend to translate into a lower libido, increasing it will more than likely increase libido. A strong libido is healthy and goes hand in hand with a healthy mental state.

Your IGF-1 is lower and not ideal, you could try peptides to increase it naturally. To give you an idea how your IGF-1 really is, the average 48 year old has an IGF-1 around 150.

TRT is going to be more challenging with high RBC and hematocrit already at 50%, you'll probably have to get used to double red cell donations and keep an eye on your ferritin levels. I only know high DHEA-S could mean overactive adrenals do to adrenal cancer or tumors.
 
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GymClassHero

New Member
Hi @Vince. Us wanting another baby is important to me but after reading @Systemlord response it kind of illustrates the trade off. I've been pretty durable my entire life even through sport and work but now my discs and back are beginning to give me problems that actually debilitate me rather than just hurt. Maybe I should just hit the sperm bank in case the doctors HCG regimen doesn't work? (HCG 3 times a week)

I cant get in to donate blood until Friday. Would I be safe to start with the cream or should I wait until after i've donated and had a chance to level out? (Maybe Monday) I guess I dont know what kind of response to expect.

The reason I didnt want more libido is because mine is already in overdrive. Maybe its the Tongkat Ali but were limiting me to twice a day basically. What level of DHT is optimal? I also read in life extension estrogen at 25 to 35PG/ML is optimal?

Will taking T cream on the balls and HCG increase or decrease my DHEA level? I'm assuming I'd have other blood markers if I had cancer???
 

Nelson Vergel

Founder, ExcelMale.com
Hello,

I've lurked for quite a long time and done a lot of reading. After getting somewhat overwhelmed I figured i'd just try to condense my story and ask the good people here for their thoughts, advice and/or words of wisdom. This has been quite a journey for me & before I apply the cream/HCG injections my DR just gave me I want to make sure there's nothing he nor I overlooked. (I'm excited and nervous to get started)

I've been diagnosed with Low T and diabetic hypogonadotropic hypogonadism. I have all the symptoms associated with low T other than low sex drive. I gather that its rare but I do NOT want my sex drive to increase if I can avoid it. I do want my mood, energy and response to workout to get a lot better however. My wife & I are newly wed and were planning on having another child next year, so fertility is important to us still. I've also worked very, very hard to drop a ton of weight but still find myself at 275 (which is much lighter than I was a year ago) These have been extremely hard fought battles in the gym for years and I believe low T is a significant factor in that. My arms are muscular, my legs are muscular, and all of me other than my enormous gut is thin. My Dr. tried to first tell me that 224 NG/DL was normal but after a year of herbals, great T inducing diet and working out i'm still only at 320 NG/DL. Before these herbals i've never tried anything that would've changed my T levels.

My bloodwork was mostly unremarkable accept for a few numbers that concern me and I wanted to post them below to see if they bring about any thoughts or concerns for the people here that know this chemistry so much better than I (Or a lot of GP doctors from what i've read) So I'll just leave you all with those numbers and welcome any insight you may have.

LH 4.4 MLU/ML
FSH 5.3 MLU/ML
DHEA-S 639 UG/DL!!! (Should I be worried this is so much over the upper limit)
Andro 92 NG/DL
Total T 320 NG/DL
DHT 21 NG/DL (What is the reference range for not going bald?)
SHBG 36.3 NMO/L
Free T 7.21 NG/DL
E 9.5 PG/ML (I'd like benefits of more E without excess emotion/water retention. Sweetspot/methods?)
IGF-1 104 NG/DL
Total C 144 (Should I be concerned its too low? Will T be a detriment to my cholesterol?)
HDL 31
LDL 72
VLDL 38
ALP 126 IU/L (Low T with higher alkaline Phosphatase is a marker of osteoporosis!)
RBC 6.37 (always high)
Hematocrit 50.6 ( Always high)

Do any of these number speak to you? And should we be paying attention to anything specifically? I really don't want more Osteo problems and I have the first serious injury of my life right now. Bulged discs that are occasionally debilitating & really slowing my workout progression!!
Sorry to jump in late.

How tall are you? How many more pounds do you have to lose ?


You have sleep apnea (unless you are a smoker) as shown in your high red blood cells and hematocrit. Weight loss will make that better and also increase your T. Better oxygen at night will also improve mood and energy. Have your doctor prescribe a sleep study.

You also have low vitamin D and most probably high PTH due to your low alkaline phosphate.

Your HDL will have to increase. Weight loss, cardio and fish oils may help. Niacin if you can stand it.

I would not start TRT or HCG or Clomid. If you have a good sex drive at your number, stay as is as you focus on more weight loss.
 

GymClassHero

New Member
Hey @Nelson Vergel i appreciate you jumping in & I thank you for the resource. As of Aug/2018 my Vitamin D Hydroxy was 27.5 (Range 30-100) and I dont have a PTH result. Im assuming that's excreted vitamin D. Niaspan was one of the worst experiences of my life. I'm 6'2 but cant imagine getting down to 180 pounds! I made heavyweight in GG when I was 17 and played D Lineman in school. That being said if you look at me literally all my fat is in my gut which is what gave my GP the inclination to test me. I havent been working out because of these damn discs but I eat Keto, I fast 20 hours a day and dont eat anything at all on Wednesday. This fasting is whats making it possible for my doctor to ween me off diabetic meds. The belly fat still just wont go! And im the hardest gainer on the planet when lifting....IT wasn't like this when I used to be active.

Oh yea - I used to experience Sleep apnea specifically when I would sleep on my back but that was more than a year ago. My wife is a nurse and says that I breath well now.
 

GymClassHero

New Member
No I havent but id be willing to... Ok so if I can keep shedding weight I can breathe better in my sleep. If I take the T cream I will more than likely start dropping weight especially if it speeds the healing of my back and I can get active again. On the other hand it will simultaneously raise my iron and rbc right? So then I have to try and figure out if I can donate fast enough to keep the levels in check. Also I do think the herbals im on raise Iron. They raise LH and FSH. (Which makes my levels even more upsetting)
 
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