HCG and elevated LH in Alzheimer patients

[Soalian]

What's typical of hormones is that either high or low levels cause problems. Therefore I'm not ready to say that leaving LH obliterated by TRT is necessarily preferable to adding some appropriate amount of hCG to the protocol. As you suggest, more research is needed. Personally I wouldn't be too worried about cumulative hCG dosing of up to 500 IU per week. I base this in part on anecdotal reports about side effects—their increasing likelihood could be a proxy for excessive levels.

Are you on exogenous test right now? Do you notice subjective changes in cognition from backfilling the gnrh and LH pathways through using gonadorelin and enclomiphene?

I'm still torn on the benefits of adding HCG low-dose, due to the purported benefits of HCG on brain health through LH receptor signaling.

 

[Cataceous]

Are you on exogenous test right now? Do you notice subjective changes in cognition from backfilling the gnrh and LH pathways through using gonadorelin and enclomiphene?
...

Yes and probably. I perceived improvements in cognition that correlated with the use of gonadorelin and enclomiphene. However, one possible confounding factor is that I had started taking selegiline in a similar time frame. I would tend to attribute more of the possible improvements to the GnRH, but for all I know there could be a synergistic effect. I doubt increased LH was much of a factor, as levels barely entered the normal range. Experiments in mice are promising: "A striking observation was that GnRH promoted adult neurogenesis despite aging." "GnRH led to an amelioration of aging-related cognitive decline .... Thus, prolonged elevation of systemic GnRH can cumulatively yield actions on the brain;..." Discussed here.

 

[Soalian]

Yes and probably. I perceived improvements in cognition that correlated with the use of gonadorelin and enclomiphene. However, one possible confounding factor is that I had started taking selegiline in a similar time frame. I would tend to attribute more of the possible improvements to the GnRH, but for all I know there could be a synergistic effect. I doubt increased LH was much of a factor, as levels barely entered the normal range. Experiments in mice are promising: "A striking observation was that GnRH promoted adult neurogenesis despite aging." "GnRH led to an amelioration of aging-related cognitive decline .... Thus, prolonged elevation of systemic GnRH can cumulatively yield actions on the brain;..." Discussed here.

Thank you for the link;

my plan is to start a trial of kisspeptin-10 for backfilling the gnrh pathways (despite being on exogenous test, don't know how it will play out in practice, if I'll still be able to get the gnrh cascade activated or not).

What do you think of using kisspeptin to tha effect?

 

[Cataceous]

...
my plan is to start a trial of kisspeptin-10 for backfilling the gnrh pathways (despite being on exogenous test, don't know how it will play out in practice, if I'll still be able to get the gnrh cascade activated or not).

What do you think of using kisspeptin to tha effect?

It might work, but there are caveats. It's unclear what's best with respect to dosing. My guess is that small, frequent doses will be more effective than large, infrequent doses. Additionally, kisspeptin-10 is probably less effective than the endogenous kisspeptin-54. Then there's the problem of determining efficacy. There is a GnRH blood test, but it's not clear to me if it can provide a clear indication of what's going on with a pulsatile hormone. An LH test is likely to be more accessible, though timing could still be an issue, and you'd need to use enclomiphene, at least temporary, to overcome negative feedback at the pituitary.

 

[Gman86]

Yes and probably. I perceived improvements in cognition that correlated with the use of gonadorelin and enclomiphene. However, one possible confounding factor is that I had started taking selegiline in a similar time frame. I would tend to attribute more of the possible improvements to the GnRH, but for all I know there could be a synergistic effect. I doubt increased LH was much of a factor, as levels barely entered the normal range. Experiments in mice are promising: "A striking observation was that GnRH promoted adult neurogenesis despite aging." "GnRH led to an amelioration of aging-related cognitive decline .... Thus, prolonged elevation of systemic GnRH can cumulatively yield actions on the brain;..." Discussed here.

whats ur selegeline protocol? How often do u take it each week, how many mgs each dose, time of day, food or not with food, orally or sublingually?

and how long have u been taking it?

 

[Cataceous]

whats ur selegeline protocol? How often do u take it each week, how many mgs each dose, time of day, food or not with food, orally or sublingually?

and how long have u been taking it?

Optimistically, the selegiline and GnRH have so sharpened my memory that it just seems like you ask this all the time. I take 2.5 mg orally upon waking each day. This is on an empty stomach and without food. I've been on it since 2020.

Do u mind sharing what dose u take?

Also, do u just get this prescribed by ur doctor and pick it up at any local pharmacy?

Quick question, do u take the 2.5mg orally or sublingually?

Also, do u just take it first thing upon waking, or do u take it with ur first meal of the day? TIA

How do u take the 3mg/ day? Do you take it orally or sublingually? And if sublingually, how long do u let it dissolve and swish around for? And do u swallow or spit the saliva out after ur done swishing it around?

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Optimistically, the selegiline and GnRH have so sharpened my memory that it just seems like you ask this all the time. I take 2.5 mg orally upon waking each day. This is on an empty stomach and without food. I've been on it since 2020.

LOL. In @Gman86 's defense, you might have changed your protocol over time?

 

[Cataceous]

LOL. In @Gman86 's defense, you might have changed your protocol over time?

Pretty modestly. I started with 1.25 mg daily and increased to 2.5 mg after a few months. I've stayed with 2.5 mg since then except for briefly trying 3 mg, which made no perceptible difference.

 

[Soalian]

It might work, but there are caveats. It's unclear what's best with respect to dosing. My guess is that small, frequent doses will be more effective than large, infrequent doses. Additionally, kisspeptin-10 is probably less effective than the endogenous kisspeptin-54. Then there's the problem of determining efficacy. There is a GnRH blood test, but it's not clear to me if it can provide a clear indication of what's going on with a pulsatile hormone. An LH test is likely to be more accessible, though timing could still be an issue, and you'd need to use enclomiphene, at least temporary, to overcome negative feedback at the pituitary.

I know, I've been unsuccessfully looking for kisspeptin-54 before.

had my first 200mcg kisspeptin injection this morning, how long do you take it might take to reap the subjective mental benefits of increased gnrh signaling ? (if any, whatever I will be able to notie in changes might be placebo).

 

[Cataceous]

...
had my first 200mcg kisspeptin injection this morning, how long do you take it might take to reap the subjective mental benefits of increased gnrh signaling ? (if any, whatever I will be able to notie in changes might be placebo).

My best guess is two to three months. The questions are: How long does it take the GnRH neurons to recover from an atrophic state? And how long does it take to achieve a normalized response to renewed GnRH signaling?

You could attempt to quantify possible cognitive improvements. I'm not sure if an IQ test is an appropriate measure, but at least they're easy to find online. Or maybe some kind of memory test would be better. Or both. If you establish a baseline now then you'll have a point of comparison to use after prolonged treatment.

 

[Soalian]

My best guess is two to three months. The questions are: How long does it take the GnRH neurons to recover from an atrophic state? And how long does it take to achieve a normalized response to renewed GnRH signaling?

You could attempt to quantify possible cognitive improvements. I'm not sure if an IQ test is an appropriate measure, but at least they're easy to find online. Or maybe some kind of memory test would be better. Or both. If you establish a baseline now then you'll have a point of comparison to use after prolonged treatment.

Thank you,

gnrh might also exert beneficial indirect effets on cognition as well:

Gonadotropin-releasing hormone stimulates the biosynthesis of pregnenolone sulfate and dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate in the hypothalamus

 

[Soalian]

Also @Cataceous , I've been on a test propionate regimen for about two years; I often inject ED or EOD.

However, at times I've been injecting relatively low amounts, and/or skipping days or even a week.

Given that test prop half-life is quite short, I wonder whether or not the negative feedback loop signaling between androgens and gnrh secretion hasn't been able to remain somewhat functional during my use (have no blood work to bear that out, aka serum LH/FSH values,...),

aka where the serum testosterone threshold is, below which gnrh signaling starts getting active; I know that, despite being on exogenous test, at times I'm quite positive I didn't have much testosterone left in my blood.

Don't know how much is this a black or white issue here.

 

[Cataceous]

I have not come across a detailed explanation of the mechanics of HPTA suppression. I speculate that it involves a response to average androgen and estrogen levels over some nebulous time interval. We see that suppression is mostly avoided with short-acting testosterone like Natesto, in spite of high serum peaks. But the half-life of testosterone propionate is relatively long compared to that of Natesto, so I expect it would take quite low doses and/or long breaks to maintain significant HPTA activity while on it. As you suggest, a test of LH might give an idea of what's going on.

 

[Gman86]

Optimistically, the selegiline and GnRH have so sharpened my memory that it just seems like you ask this all the time. I take 2.5 mg orally upon waking each day. This is on an empty stomach and without food. I've been on it since 2020.

this is what brain fog will do to ya lol. Sorry brotha. I’m gonna save ur response so I don’t accidentally ask again in the future. Thanks for responding for the 300th time tho lol. Honestly appreciate it lol

what’s ur thoughts on taking it sublingually?

I do remember u saying that u personally take it orally because it enhances the absorption of phenethylamine

 

[Cataceous]

...
what’s ur thoughts on taking it sublingually?

I do remember u saying that u personally take it orally because it enhances the absorption of phenethylamine

In general sublingual delivery makes me a little uneasy. You get these large spikes in serum levels, which may be undesirable. I did some experimenting with sildenafil, and sublingual proved to be a sure way to induce side effects, whereas oral was ok. Arguably dose titration would help, given the better efficiency of sublingual delivery. There are situations where pulsatile delivery could be advantageous. I'm thinking of hormones that have natural pulsatile delivery, such as testosterone and GnRH. I don't have anything specific to add about selegiline. I wonder if the apparent half-life is reduced with sublingual delivery—and does this matter with a suicide inhibitor?

That's a sharp memory to recall my remark on phenethylamine. I do view this as an advantage in taking selegiline orally. It allows good results with even a very low dose of phenethylamine, around 50-100 mg. For me it's become somewhat of a caffeine substitute—minus the side effects.

 

[Gman86]

In general sublingual delivery makes me a little uneasy. You get these large spikes in serum levels, which may be undesirable. I did some experimenting with sildenafil, and sublingual proved to be a sure way to induce side effects, whereas oral was ok. Arguably dose titration would help, given the better efficiency of sublingual delivery. There are situations where pulsatile delivery could be advantageous. I'm thinking of hormones that have natural pulsatile delivery, such as testosterone and GnRH. I don't have anything specific to add about selegiline. I wonder if the apparent half-life is reduced with sublingual delivery—and does this matter with a suicide inhibitor?

That's a sharp memory to recall my remark on phenethylamine. I do view this as an advantage in taking selegiline orally. It allows good results with even a very low dose of phenethylamine, around 50-100 mg. For me it's become somewhat of a caffeine substitute—minus the side effects.

Really appreciate the detailed response. Very helpful. l took a little break from selegiline, but I think I’ll be starting it back up in a week or so, and when I do, I might try taking it orally, starting around 2.5mg ED, or EOD. Have really only tried it sublingually, at least consistently. I know @BadassBlues also enjoys taking it orally. He uses 5mg/ day, IIRC

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I know @BadassBlues also enjoys taking it orally.

That seems kinda personal to reveal on a public forum don't you think?

 

[Gman86]

That seems kinda personal to reveal on a public forum don't you think?

I think we’re all pretty open here, but I probably could have worded that better hahah

 

[BadassBlues]

I think we’re all pretty open here, but I probably could have worded that better hahah

No comment

 

[Soalian]

@Cataceous so I'm one week into the Kisspeptin-10 250mcg daily (125cmg BID), so far nothing to report as of yet. I'm expecting very mild results, if anything noticeable at all.