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sv1000

New Member
What causes the difference between cyp and prop?
For me the difference is the prop is faster acting and my body handles it better I guess I just never felt good on cyp. But it also could’ve been that I was using too much honestly it was back during a time when I didn’t know as much as I know now.
 
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Cataceous

Super Moderator
What causes the difference between cyp and prop?
Propionate is a little smaller molecule than cypionate, and it is also less water resistant—hydrophobic, so it is absorbed more rapidly. This is the only difference that matters. Once either testosterone ester is absorbed the ester is rapidly split off leaving the testosterone.
 

sv1000

New Member
Copied from online
The main difference between the different esters is how many carbon and hydrogen atoms make up the chain. For example, the propionate ester is composed of 3 carbons, 6 hydrogens, and 2 oxygens, whereas the cypionateester is composed of 8 carbons, 14 hydrogens, and 2 oxygens.
 

themud

Member
Thought I would chime in.

I am one of the success stories for TRT, so I don't even look at the forum very much.

Look up Emeric Delczeg on professional muscle. He has been doing daily injections @ 10mg/day for almost 30 years. He is a retired bodybuilder now in his 60s.

I have done 10-15mg/day and have cycled as high as 30/day and have been back down to 10/day for 3 weeks now and I can't believe how much better I feel.

Keep body fat as low as possible, eat right and get as much sleep as possible is my advice. Whenever I have not watched those three my libido drops, my BP goes up and I get pimples. I don't watch E2 at all since starting TRT as I only had the original nipple sensitivity and my E2 has actually been "too low" for my Dr. on most of my BW.

It takes me 2 minutes to do 10mg/day in an insulin needle 30-31g 1/4" into my calves, crease in my hip, buttocks. People complain that it would be a pain to do daily, but I have to say that it takes me longer to brush my teeth and shave. Big deal. I am 48 5/8 170 and my wife complains I've found the fountain of youth. Well kind of. I use no AI, HCG.
 
Thought I would chime in.

I am one of the success stories for TRT, so I don't even look at the forum very much.

Look up Emeric Delczeg on professional muscle. He has been doing daily injections @ 10mg/day for almost 30 years. He is a retired bodybuilder now in his 60s.

I have done 10-15mg/day and have cycled as high as 30/day and have been back down to 10/day for 3 weeks now and I can't believe how much better I feel.

Keep body fat as low as possible, eat right and get as much sleep as possible is my advice. Whenever I have not watched those three my libido drops, my BP goes up and I get pimples. I don't watch E2 at all since starting TRT as I only had the original nipple sensitivity and my E2 has actually been "too low" for my Dr. on most of my BW.

It takes me 2 minutes to do 10mg/day in an insulin needle 30-31g 1/4" into my calves, crease in my hip, buttocks. People complain that it would be a pain to do daily, but I have to say that it takes me longer to brush my teeth and shave. Big deal. I am 48 5/8 170 and my wife complains I've found the fountain of youth. Well kind of. I use no AI, HCG.
My body fat is currently over 25% at 6’4” 268... would you lose weight first if you were me, or just go ahead and start?
 

madman

Super Moderator
Thought I would chime in.

I am one of the success stories for TRT, so I don't even look at the forum very much.

Look up Emeric Delczeg on professional muscle. He has been doing daily injections @ 10mg/day for almost 30 years. He is a retired bodybuilder now in his 60s.

I have done 10-15mg/day and have cycled as high as 30/day and have been back down to 10/day for 3 weeks now and I can't believe how much better I feel.

Keep body fat as low as possible, eat right and get as much sleep as possible is my advice. Whenever I have not watched those three my libido drops, my BP goes up and I get pimples. I don't watch E2 at all since starting TRT as I only had the original nipple sensitivity and my E2 has actually been "too low" for my Dr. on most of my BW.

It takes me 2 minutes to do 10mg/day in an insulin needle 30-31g 1/4" into my calves, crease in my hip, buttocks. People complain that it would be a pain to do daily, but I have to say that it takes me longer to brush my teeth and shave. Big deal. I am 48 5/8 170 and my wife complains I've found the fountain of youth. Well kind of. I use no AI, HCG.


Finally!

Too many get caught up in the more is better mentality.

Glad to hear and although it has only been 3 weeks hope everything works out for you in the long run.
 
Finally!

Too many get caught up in the more is better mentality.

Glad to hear and although it has only been 3 weeks hope everything works out for you in the long run.
The lower dose (10mg daily) is my plan...currently have a higher body fat %... should I work to lower it 1st or just start and work on it at the same time? Will being fatter keep subq from working as well?
 

madman

Super Moderator
The lower dose (10mg daily) is my plan...currently have a higher body fat %... should I work to lower it 1st or just start and work on it at the same time? Will being fatter keep subq from working as well?

Start off with 10-12mg/day as it would be more sensible to start low and go slow.

Only time will tell where such protocol (dose T/injection frequency) has your TT/FT/e2 levels let alone RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit.

Once blood levels stabilize have blood work done.

Keep in mind that once levels stabilize it can take 2-3 months for the body to adapt so do not get discouraged during the first 6 weeks as levels will be in FLUX during the weeks leading up until they stabilize let alone your hpta will be shutting down.

Some experience what we call the honeymoon phase where they feel euphoric due to the dopamine rush and increasing T levels but it will be short-lived and temporary as the body will eventually adjust.

Others may have a harder time and experience ups/downs during the transition.

Just stay consistent with your protocol (dose T/injection frequency) and wait until you get blood work done.

Depending on whether you achieve a healthy FT level on such protocol you will either stay at the same dose and give it 2-3 months or you may very well need a slight dose increase if FT levels are still too low.

Most men do well with FT in the 20-30 ng/dL range and some do run higher levels.

How you feel overall regarding relief/improvement of low-t symptoms is what matters not just what numbers you achieve but you still need to know where your levels sit as there is such a thing as running levels too high for trt and more importantly we are trying to avoid/minimize any potential side-effects and keep blood markers healthy long-term.

Patience is key so do not expect any miracles after 6 weeks of starting as again once blood levels stabilize it will take a few months for the body to adapt.

Too many do not understand this and if things do not go how they expected within the first 6 weeks of starting trt or anytime they tweak their protocol they jump the gun and jack up the dose without ever allowing the body time to adapt which is the critical time period when one should gauge how they truly feel on such protocol.

Otherwise, you will just end up chasing your own tail indefinitely!
 

madman

Super Moderator
The lower dose (10mg daily) is my plan...currently have a higher body fat %... should I work to lower it 1st or just start and work on it at the same time? Will being fatter keep subq from working as well?

Definitely clean up your diet/start exercising.

Your TT/FT levels are low so once you start trt than eventually, you will get your TT levels where they need to be in order to achieve a healthy FT level.

Having healthy testosterone levels along with following a proper diet/training protocol will improve your body composition.

Seeing as your body fat levels are high then you may struggle with elevated e2 but it will make no difference whether you inject sub-q or IM.

What is more important is your SHBG and how high your TT/FT levels end up on such protocol (dose of T/injection frequency).

Hard to say where your TT/FT/e2 levels will end up and only labs will tell.
 

Willyt

Active Member
Thought I would chime in.

I am one of the success stories for TRT, so I don't even look at the forum very much.

Look up Emeric Delczeg on professional muscle. He has been doing daily injections @ 10mg/day for almost 30 years. He is a retired bodybuilder now in his 60s.

I have done 10-15mg/day and have cycled as high as 30/day and have been back down to 10/day for 3 weeks now and I can't believe how much better I feel.

Keep body fat as low as possible, eat right and get as much sleep as possible is my advice. Whenever I have not watched those three my libido drops, my BP goes up and I get pimples. I don't watch E2 at all since starting TRT as I only had the original nipple sensitivity and my E2 has actually been "too low" for my Dr. on most of my BW.

It takes me 2 minutes to do 10mg/day in an insulin needle 30-31g 1/4" into my calves, crease in my hip, buttocks. People complain that it would be a pain to do daily, but I have to say that it takes me longer to brush my teeth and shave. Big deal. I am 48 5/8 170 and my wife complains I've found the fountain of youth. Well kind of. I use no AI, HCG.
@themud - Are you still having success with low dose daily? What dose level have you settled on?
 

themud

Member
@themud - Are you still having success with low dose daily? What dose level have you settled on?
I am currently coming down from another blast (don't ask). I was a skinny endurance freak for years and am 49 and want to put on mass.

I followed Emeric's advice to do 2 shots a day of 20mg, so 40/day daily for a total of 280 for the week. I gained muscle and lost more fat and can honestly say 6 pack abs at my age.

I am dropping back down to 10-15 mg/day for the holidays. I did this for 8 weeks. I always feel better when I'm on a lower dose. The higher dose does give me strength and confidence. Again, no AI with the 280mg/wk. I was looking forward to coming back down. Why go up? To gain. I eat a lot and a lot of protein and I eat clean, but getting FT up that I can gain more muscle and keep it on a low 10-15mg/day.

I still think if you want health. Sleep, diet and lower body fat is key.
 

themud

Member
My body fat is currently over 25% at 6’4” 268... would you lose weight first if you were me, or just go ahead and start?
I hope you get this. AGain I'm a success story here so rarely come on. I would say try for a keto/carnivore diet and do the trt. No reason to wait. Your FT will go up with daily injections and this will boost libido and strength.
 

JA Battle

Active Member
I hope you get this. AGain I'm a success story here so rarely come on. I would say try for a keto/carnivore diet and do the trt. No reason to wait. Your FT will go up with daily injections and this will boost libido and strength.
I have followed the 10mg thread on pro muscle. I like how emeric eats a lot of eggs. I started doing this.
 

Willyt

Active Member
I am currently coming down from another blast (don't ask). I was a skinny endurance freak for years and am 49 and want to put on mass.

I followed Emeric's advice to do 2 shots a day of 20mg, so 40/day daily for a total of 280 for the week. I gained muscle and lost more fat and can honestly say 6 pack abs at my age.

I am dropping back down to 10-15 mg/day for the holidays. I did this for 8 weeks. I always feel better when I'm on a lower dose. The higher dose does give me strength and confidence. Again, no AI with the 280mg/wk. I was looking forward to coming back down. Why go up? To gain. I eat a lot and a lot of protein and I eat clean, but getting FT up that I can gain more muscle and keep it on a low 10-15mg/day.

I still think if you want health. Sleep, diet and lower body fat is key.
I thought Emeric's advice was 20mg (not 40mg) per day during his building phase then drop back down to 10mg per day as the default.
 

S1W

Active Member
I am currently coming down from another blast (don't ask). I was a skinny endurance freak for years and am 49 and want to put on mass.

I followed Emeric's advice to do 2 shots a day of 20mg, so 40/day daily for a total of 280 for the week. I gained muscle and lost more fat and can honestly say 6 pack abs at my age.

I am dropping back down to 10-15 mg/day for the holidays. I did this for 8 weeks. I always feel better when I'm on a lower dose. The higher dose does give me strength and confidence. Again, no AI with the 280mg/wk. I was looking forward to coming back down. Why go up? To gain. I eat a lot and a lot of protein and I eat clean, but getting FT up that I can gain more muscle and keep it on a low 10-15mg/day.

I still think if you want health. Sleep, diet and lower body fat is key.
I'm familiar with Emeric. Thanks for sharing your experience.

What do your labs look like on 10mg/day? TT, FT, E2, SHBG.
 
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