2 questions about hcg mono

[powerlifterty16]

firstly, I know that sometimes hypogonadism has the same symptoms as thyroid and adrenals. My question is, if one takes hcg, and gets their levels to optimal, but still has no symptom improvement does that mean that
1-low t isnt their problem
or
2-trt is the only way to relieve symptoms


my next question is, is 400 iu 3x per week hcg mono therapy safe for the long term?
thanks ;a)

 

[Nelson Vergel]

It is probably more related to number 2.

400 IU three times per week injections of HCG may bring a young man's total testosterone up above 500 ng/dL, but we are all too different to predict response. There is some controversy on downregulation of HCG on leydig (testicular) cells with long term HCG use but that is just speculation not proven in studies with humans. HCG will disrupt your HPT axis much as testosterone replacement does, though.

This monotherapy HCG study in older men used high doses of 5000 IU twice a week for three months. Look at what happened to all parameters after initiation and after cessation.

 

[powerlifterty16]

It is probably more related to number 2.

400 IU three times per week injections of HCG may bring a young man's total testosterone up above 500 ng/dL, but we are all too different to predict response. There is some controversy on downregulation of HCG on leydig (testicular) cells with long term HCG use but that is just speculation not proven in studies with humans. HCG will disrupt your HPT axis much as testosterone replacement does, though.

This monotherapy HCG study in older men used high doses of 5000 IU twice a week for three months. Look at what happened to all parameters after initiation and after cessation.

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thanks man. Im curious what my t level will be when i get bloods on the 18th of november. I know on 25 mg of clomid for 7 days it got to 631, so im guessing 400 iu may get me to the 700s. Im going to read that study you posted as well...a little busy now but within the hour ill check it out man.

 

[powerlifterty16]

thanks man. Im curious what my t level will be when i get bloods on the 18th of november. I know on 25 mg of clomid for 7 days it got to 631, so im guessing 400 iu may get me to the 700s. Im going to read that study you posted as well...a little busy now but within the hour ill check it out man.

just read the study. It's a bummer that the hcg didnt relieve symptoms. I think a better study would have been to wait another 6 weeks post cessation of hcg, and do 3 months of trt to see if that relieved those same individuals' symptoms. t this point it's ahrd to tell whether the reason they didnt have symptom relief was due to their issues not being testosterone related, or because they just didnt respond to hcg symptom wise. I sometimes doubt the benefits of trt to be so much greater than hcg.

One big reason i prefer hcg, is because I tried it in the past, and after 6 weeks of hcg, i came off and my lh wasnt suppressed lol.

 

[paco]

Nelson, could you detail how HCG disrupts the HPT axis? I understand that LH production will be dramatically reduced or altogether halted, but what other changes might occur?

TRT can result in reductions in DHEA and pregnenolone, so some such as Dr. Crisler and Gene Devine recommend supplementation while on TRT. Will this happen when using HCG as well?

 

[Gene Devine]

Paco - First we must clarify that we are addressing Secondary Hypogonadal men here, not Primary.

Administration of HCG can increase Testosterone serum levels in men which through the negative feedback loop may/can cause a self induced Secondary Hypogonadism state.

With this comes HPTA suppression and significant reduction in both LH and FSH serum levels.

When this happens there is a strong belief by many anti aging practitioners that upstream production of hormones will be compromised; more specifically the conversion of Cholesterol (CHOL) into Pregnenolone. HCG, as an LH analog, activates the P450-scc enzyme which is principally responsible for the synthesis from CHOL into Pregnenolone. The use of HCG insures that all three CHOL dependent hormonal pathways are getting the raw hormonal materials they need to optimized when a man is HPTA suppressed.

Supplementing with low daily doses of both Pregnenolone and DHEA also goes to support the three CHOL dependent hormonal pathways as well.

As we age, like everything else, both Pregnenolone and DHEA production slows so supplementing both insures that we are providing these three CHOL dependent pathways with the raw materials they need when HPTA suppressed and to over come age related decline.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Another interesting thing about HCG as a LH mimicker is that it maintains proper Leydig cell function in the testicles even in the presence of shutdown hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis when used alone in higher doses or used in smaller doses with testosterone replacement. We need a certain amount of intra-testicular (inside the testicles) testosterone and LH to keep Leydig cells "plumb". This usually does not happen with TRT alone.

It is unfortunate that more research is not being done in this area so that the combination therapy approach of HCG+TRT can be more mainstream. Currently it is only used by specialized clinics.

Nelson