Using HCG alone versus Testosterone alone or Testosterone + HCG

[powerlifterty16]

firstly, I know that sometimes hypogonadism has the same symptoms as thyroid and adrenals. My question is, if one takes hcg, and gets their levels to optimal, but still has no symptom improvement does that mean that
1-low t isnt their problem
or
2-trt is the only way to relieve symptoms


my next question is, is 400 iu 3x per week hcg mono therapy safe for the long term?
thanks ;a)

 

[Gene Devine]

I moved this to the general forum where it will get more exposure and better response.

 

[paco]

Thanks, Gene! Your insight and knowledge is a huge help. However, were previous replies inadvertently omitted?

 

[Gene Devine]

Thanks, Gene! Your insight and knowledge is a huge help. However, were previous replies inadvertently omitted?

No. There have been no replies...yet.

 

[Gene Devine]

firstly, I know that sometimes hypogonadism has the same symptoms as thyroid and adrenals. My question is, if one takes hcg, and gets their levels to optimal, but still has no symptom improvement does that mean that
1-low t isnt their problem
or
2-trt is the only way to relieve symptoms

Rarely will HCG as a mono therapy get testosterone serum levels to an optimal level. If the Hypogonadism is caused by other pathologies than yes, they need to be addressed first to see if there is a rebound once cured. Many times however, like in the case of hypothyroidism causing secondary hypogonadism it's rare that even when the thyroid levels are back to normal ranges will the secondary condition cure itself.

my next question is, is 400 iu 3x per week hcg mono therapy safe for the long term?

Need to know much more. What is the cause of the hypogonadism? What are current labs? Any diagnosis? Currently on TRT? Any other meds? Lifestyle...the list goes on. As noted however, HCG as a mono therapy rarely can get Testosterone serum levels to optimal levels...you need Testosterone for that.

thanks ;a)

Bold above.

 

[paco]

This same topic is being discussed here: https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/646-2-questions-about-hcg-mono

 

[SuperDutyDave]

Paco

I tried clomid mono therapy for almost a year.....it did raise my levels to what many would consider decent and therefore symptoms should have been if not eliminated definitely improved. However I saw almost no improvement in symptoms with this protocol.....I therefore wouldn't be surprised if similar results were had with HCG mono also.

Soon as I moved to TRT and got my levels higher and more consistent most issues evaporated......

Hope this helps

 

[txmx]

Dave, what libido difference did you notice between clomid and trt? Also, did you notice any increase in penile sensitivity when on trt vs. clomid?

 

[SuperDutyDave]

Txmx

even though my numbers rose about 200 pts in total T on clomid (large dose FYI) I felt little if any benefit in symptoms.

For me libido was never a huge problem, it was more in all the other areas including anxiety energy mood etc.

TRT eliminated all these issues....only one still no really fixed, without secondary help, is Erection quality.

Overall difference between clomid and TRT is night and day for me

 

[powerlifterty16]

Txmx

even though my numbers rose about 200 pts in total T on clomid (large dose FYI) I felt little if any benefit in symptoms.

For me libido was never a huge problem, it was more in all the other areas including anxiety energy mood etc.

TRT eliminated all these issues....only one still no really fixed, without secondary help, is Erection quality.

Overall difference between clomid and TRT is night and day for me

did clomid get your t to a similar number that trt is getting it to?
libido is not an issue for me either. it's more anxiety, mental fog, headaches, fatigue, and all the other shit. I actually have a great libido but no gf ><><><>< lol

 

[SuperDutyDave]

Highest I saw with clomid was mid-500's but didn't feel much different then when I started out in high 200's

On T-Cyp I am in mid 700's and feel great......

Get your numbers up correctly and you'll have more game for getting that girlfriend and you'll definitely want to utilize her

 

[powerlifterty16]

Highest I saw with clomid was mid-500's but didn't feel much different then when I started out in high 200's

On T-Cyp I am in mid 700's and feel great......

Get your numbers up correctly and you'll have more game for getting that girlfriend and you'll definitely want to utilize her

yeah i suck with girls lol...doubt t will be a magic cure heheehe...but it can't hurt.
do you think if you hit 700 on clomid you'd feel as good as 700on trt and are you alsotaking hcg?

 

[SuperDutyDave]

What I'm telling you is the clomid gave virtually no relief to symptoms......I doubt even if even I got higher in level it would have made much difference. Also I was at highest dosage to yield those ## You can't stay on clomid for extended periods....years....there is also potential for vision issues too.

Not a clomid fan.

Get feeling better and you'll get your A game back with ladies

 

[powerlifterty16]

been on novarel for one month, and still feeling awful. might have to pay out of pocket to get prescribed trt..being 24(been trying to find a cause for 5 years and done dealing with brain dead drs)
btw, whyd i get a 7 days recognition when i joined in beginning of october lulz.

 

[txmx]

I have been on clomid over 1 year, no problems to date with any adverse vision issues or anything else. Total T levels have been 750-875 and free T only up to about 10 due to high SHBG. So, T is up, but the bad news is I feel no different with subjective issues than when my T was at 259 or 337 or 407 before starting clomid. From a practical perspective clomid sure is convenient and inexpensive, but you give up a lot subjectively since you don't feel better libido-wise, etc.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Clomid does not improve sex drive and does not have the benefits of TRT even with the "perceived" increase in T levels

 

[paco]

I agree with what folks are saying about clomid (except for the supposed visual issues, which I'm still skeptical about). I spent months trying clomid at different doses with little to any perceived benefit or side effects, even with "good" total and free testosterone levels. The best I've felt in many months of trying to improve how I'm feeling without resorting to TRT is HCG mono. Still, I feel I'm about out of options for truly feeling better without TRT, so I'm ready to take the leap.

 

[powerlifterty16]

I agree with what folks are saying about clomid (except for the supposed visual issues, which I'm still skeptical about). I spent months trying clomid at different doses with little to any perceived benefit or side effects, even with "good" total and free testosterone levels. The best I've felt in many months of trying to improve how I'm feeling without resorting to TRT is HCG mono. Still, I feel I'm about out of options for truly feeling better without TRT, so I'm ready to take the leap.

i feel no different on hcg mono. im getting bw soon..curious to see how high my levels are.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Nothing, I mean nothing, can replace the symptom improvement of TRT. Not HCG monotherapy, No Clomid and no aromatase inhibitor even though they all increase your own testosterone blood levels. I wish I could find a scientific reference that explains this but so far I have not identified one.

 

[txmx]

Sure would be nice to be able to use a secondary hypo but still functional HPTA with the simplicity of an AI or clomiphene pill. I agree symptoms don't improve even with the raised T levels. Sure would be nice to see a study on this. I am still surprised that Repros has not put out such a study for Androxal. If they had a legitimate study of normal BMI men (not their current high BMI men study that shows some T increase) and they were able to produce legitimate symptom improvement, Androxal would blow many other protocols away. However, since we have not seen that study, and since symptom improvement is such a huge issue (of which Repros must certainly be aware), I would guess that in reality Androxal is really no better than generic clomiphene. If this is true then Repros shareholders better sell quick while everyone is still hopeful but confused.