Would 15mg/day put me out of range?

[WayneP]

I'm going to do 15mg/day test prop. I figure this is a good starting protocol with my lowish shbg (~22). Prop because I can make dose changes quickly if needed.

I'm wondering if this would put me out of range though. Probably not the trough, but the peak? Is it even "bad" to be out of range during the peak? Or should I not worry about it? I just want to stay within range to avoid side effects. The thought of being in supra range doesn't sit well with me.

 

[madman]

I'm going to do 15mg/day test prop. I figure this is a good starting protocol with my lowish shbg (~22). Prop because I can make dose changes quickly if needed.

I'm wondering if this would put me out of range though. Probably not the trough, but the peak? Is it even "bad" to be out of range during the peak? Or should I not worry about it? I just want to stay within range to avoid side effects. The thought of being in supra range doesn't sit well with me.

The main advantage of injecting daily is minimizing the peak--->trough and maintaining stable blood levels throughout the week.

Although you are using prop I would not worry as you need to be more concerned with where your FT ends up on such protocol.

The goal would be to find out what FT level you feel the best while at the same time minimizing any potential side-effects and keeping blood markers healthy.

Most tend to aim for higher-end TT/FT levels and what TT level you need to hit to achieve a healthy FT level will come down to where your SHBG sits let alone protocol (dose T/injection frequency).

Most men would do well having FT in the 20-30 ng/dL range and some may feel better running slightly higher levels.

Comes down to the individual and what FT level you need to achieve in order to experience relief/improvement of low-t symptoms.

Some men can tolerate running higher levels of FT whereas others may struggle with side-effects.

Although there is such a thing as too high or too low FT levels I would not go in with the mindset of having to stay within the physiological range.

 

[Cataceous]

Do you have lab results from when you were injecting enanthate twice a week? These could be used to generate a crude estimate of what to expect with propionate.

In line with what I discussed in your other threads, I'd say it's highly likely that your daily peak testosterone will be supraphysiological on 15 mg propionate daily. This amounts to 12.5 mg pure testosterone daily, about double the average natural production. On top of that, if my absorption of propionate is typical then you can expect swings in serum testosterone of up to 40-50% above and below average levels. On the whole I found the dramatic swings of daily propionate made the protocol inferior to the fairly constant levels with EOD enanthate. But a mixture of the esters seems to work best for me.

 

[camygod]

Do you have lab results from when you were injecting enanthate twice a week? These could be used to generate a crude estimate of what to expect with propionate.

In line with what I discussed in your other threads, I'd say it's highly likely that your daily peak testosterone will be supraphysiological on 15 mg propionate daily. This amounts to 12.5 mg pure testosterone daily, about double the average natural production. On top of that, if my absorption of propionate is typical then you can expect swings in serum testosterone of up to 40-50% above and below average levels. On the whole I found the dramatic swings of daily propionate made the protocol inferior to the fairly constant levels with EOD enanthate. But a mixture of the esters seems to work best for me.

i thought you said that a dinural vartaion of 40%is good or did you find prop just had to to high a daily varation when used alone ?
on plot your cylce prop seems to have what would seem to be the perfect varation no? but i guess in the real world it might not be the case

 

[Cataceous]

i thought you said that a dinural vartaion of 40%is good or did you find prop just had to to high a daily varation when used alone ?
on plot your cylce prop seems to have what would seem to be the perfect varation no? but i guess in the real world it might not be the case

There are various ways to quantify the variability in serum testosterone. One of them is the relative decline from peak to trough. This is the one where a 40% decline is typical for young men. Another measure is to look at the variation about the average level. By this measure the typical variation is +/-25% about the mean. For example, suppose a typical young guy has peak testosterone of 650 ng/dL. A typical trough value is 40% lower, or 390 ng/dL. His average testosterone level is around the midpoint, say 520 ng/dL. Now his peak is 25% higher than the average level and his trough is 25% lower than the average. It's simply a different way of describing the same thing.

Now with pure propionate I was seeing variations of over 50% above and below the mean. In the example above this would put the daily peak at 780 ng/dL and the trough at 260 ng/dL, an unnaturally large swing. By the alternative measurement this is a drop of 67% from peak to trough, much greater than the normal 40%.

 

[camygod]

There various ways to quantify the variability in serum testosterone. One of them is the relative decline from peak to trough. This is the one where a 40% decline is typical for young me. Another measure is to look at the variation about the average level. By this measure the typical variation is +/-25% about the mean. For example, suppose a typical young guy has peak testosterone of 650 ng/dL. A typical trough value is 40% lower, or 390 ng/dL. His average testosterone level is around the midpoint, say 520 ng/dL. Now his peak is 25% higher than the average level and his trough is 25% lower than the average. It's simply a different way of describing the same thing.

Now with pure propionate I was seeing variations of over 50% above and below the mean. In the example above this would put the daily peak at 780 ng/dL and the trough at 260 ng/dL, an unnaturally large swing. By the alternative measurement this is a drop of 67% from peak to trough, much greater than the normal 40%.

i get it
i also watch some videos with a steroid expert he also says regardless of ester when you inject small dose daily your body seems to clear it at a faster rate so injecting test prop under 20mg a day maybe will give you way shorter half life than say a bodybuilder cycle of say 50 or 100mg eod even with test enth or cyp
he also stated for some reason people with higher body fat seem to clear the ester faster which you would think would be the oppisite

 

[Cataceous]

... regardless of ester when you inject small dose daily your body seems to clear it at a faster rate ...

This probably is true when applied to any single ester, and I've seen it mentioned in research articles. The standard exponential decay model for absorption is based on its rate being directly proportional to the amount that's yet to be absorbed. But in reality there is likely some proportionality to the surface area of the unabsorbed dose. This means the relative rate of absorption increases as the injected depot gets smaller, and the apparent half-life decreases with dose size.

 

[camygod]

This probably is true when applied to any single ester, and I've seen it mentioned in research articles. The standard exponential decay model for absorption is based on its rate being directly proportional to the amount that's yet to be absorbed. But in reality there is likely some proportionality to the surface area of the unabsorbed dose. This means the relative rate of absorption increases as the injected depot gets smaller, and the apparent half-life decreases with dose size.

haha thanks way over my head but i think i get the point of what your saying grated im not that birght i guess mixing ester like your doing does seem the best approach whith daily micro dosing