Vitamin C's latest labs, switching protocols.

[Vitamin_C]

Greetings gents, first I would like to announce that I have been selected to the University of Arizona's FNP program . My goal of going into anti-aging medicine and becoming a prescriber is now a reality. I have been on TRT for nearly 4 months, started with topicals at 50mg and got no response, numbers in the 400's to low 500's. Went to 100mg daily at 20% and no response as well. I am now switching over to injectable doing sub q injections q3 days with a 30g and 1ml syringe (.3ml) at 120mg per week in divided doses (60mg q3 days) into the quad, triceps, and deltoids. I also do 300 IU of HCG biweekly as well. My current set of labs from my topical are here:

TSH: 1.5 0.45-4.5 (TSH from a couple weeks ago from my PCP was 1.3 so pretty close)
T4 1.4 0.8-1.7
T3 3.8 2.0-4.8

CRP <1mg/L <=7.9 mg/L

Homocysteine 6.8 umol/L 6.0-15.0

RBC 4.88 4.14-5.80
Hemoglobin 15.3 12.6 -17.7
Hematocrit 45.4 37.5-51

Prolactin 5.1 2.5-22.5

Estradiol (non sensitive) 10 pg/ml 26-61 pg/mL
Estradiol, Ultra-sensitive 22 pg/mL < OR= 29 pg/mL

DHT 82 ng/dl 16-79

SHBG 36 nmol/L 10-50 nmol/L

PSA 0.6 ng/mL <= 2.5ng/mL

Free Testosterone 103 pg/mL 35.0-155 pg/mL

Total testosterone 480 ng/dL 250-1100 ng/dL


As you can notice, total testosterone is still not optimal so I an switching to sub Q injections. I can get 480 TT naturally. Anyways, will have labs posted back in six weeks on the sub Q protocol.

 

[ERO]

I would bet that you will be much happier on injections. Your current Total T of 480 is almost a Low T state in itself.

 

[Weasel]

Interesting how you have fairly low Total T but still a respectable free T number without a super low SHBG.

 

[Vitamin_C]

Right, and that 480 TT is about 3 hours after application, so peak levels, not optimal. I didn't feel bad though, other numbers look good, but I did not feel optimal.

 

[roadglide]

You didn't try increasing cream to 200mg per day? Just curious, I'm at the lab now waiting for a 30 day follow up. Currently at 100mg cream.

 

[Vince]

Vitamin, it does seem like, more are happier with injections. Injecting definitely gives your more control over your T levels. I would hate to rub T on me and contaminate all my loved ones.

 

[Vitamin_C]

You didn't try increasing cream to 200mg per day? Just curious, I'm at the lab now waiting for a 30 day follow up. Currently at 100mg cream.

That was an option but I have been messing around with creams for almost 4 months now and they have not taken me higher than 600 during peak testing of the drug. At 100mg per day, I was peaking at 480, which is what I was pre-TRT levels naturally. I didn't want to increase to 200mg per day and wait another 6 weeks just to go into my doc's office and see sub-optimal TT levels. We know injections do work, creams/gels tend to work only in some men .

 

[roadglide]

Got ya. Hate to admit I've been messing around with creams for over a year now. I'll try the 200mg, but I'll have blood work in 4 weeks. Switched Doctors and started HCG so that slowed things a bit.

 

[ERO]

If I were to hazard a guess, I would estimate that maybe 1 guy out of 10 does well on transdermal T long-term. For the other 9, its your exact experience. You cannot ever get your T to a high enough level to feel it, you run into E2 issues, Total T drops over time, etc...

 

[CoastWatcher]

If I were to hazard a guess, I would estimate that maybe 1 guy out of 10 does well on transdermal T long-term. For the other 9, its your exact experience. You cannot ever get your T to a high enough level to feel it, you run into E2 issues, Total T drops over time, etc...

And I found the application process to be a hassle. Injections, even frequent injections, are far more convenient.

 

[roadglide]

If I were to hazard a guess, I would estimate that maybe 1 guy out of 10 does well on transdermal T long-term. For the other 9, its your exact experience. You cannot ever get your T to a high enough level to feel it, you run into E2 issues, Total T drops over time, etc...

Wow that would be messed up if true. Wonder why some Docs recommend them?

 

[ERO]

Unless you get them from a compounding pharmacy, transdermals can big dollar, Big Pharma items, plus most docs are just not up to speed on TRT. Hardly a day goes by that we do not see another new user on the forum with a totally screwed-up TRT protocol (either transdermal or injection based) provided by a Doc that is not a TRT expert. The "inject once every 2 weeks" protocols, the Docs that refuse to even check for E2 levels or use the wrong test, the Docs that refuse to use HCG, etc. the list is endless. If you are one of those Docs, transdermals look great...

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

Hardly a day goes by that we do not see another new user on the forum with a totally screwed-up TRT protocol (either transdermal or injection based) provided by a Doc that is not a TRT expert. The "inject once every 2 weeks" protocols, the Docs that refuse to even check for E2 levels or use the wrong test, the Docs that refuse to use HCG, etc. the list is endless. If you are one of those Docs, transdermals look great...

^^^^^Truth.^^^^^

 

[Vitamin_C]

Unless you get them from a compounding pharmacy, transdermals can big dollar, Big Pharma items, plus most docs are just not up to speed on TRT. Hardly a day goes by that we do not see another new user on the forum with a totally screwed-up TRT protocol (either transdermal or injection based) provided by a Doc that is not a TRT expert. The "inject once every 2 weeks" protocols, the Docs that refuse to even check for E2 levels or use the wrong test, the Docs that refuse to use HCG, etc. the list is endless. If you are one of those Docs, transdermals look great...

My doc pretty much lets me run my own protocol. I wanted to try topicals first since it is the least invasive. I could have gone up to 200mg per day but I had a vial of Cypionate at home and I just opted to do sub q injections and stop with the topicals. Maybe 200mg of topical would have taken me above 600, maybe it wouldn't have, but I decided to just do sub Q and go from there. My new protocol is 60mg of Cypionate and 300 IU of HCG same syringe with 30g sub q into belly and fat pad above glutes every 3 days. I will get labs done in 6 weeks. I have about 2 weeks worth of cream left I don't want to waste. I am wondering if it would be ok to rub it on for 2 weeks while doing my sub Q?

 

[CoastWatcher]

My doc pretty much lets me run my own protocol. I wanted to try topicals first since it is the least invasive. I could have gone up to 200mg per day but I had a vial of Cypionate at home and I just opted to do sub q injections and stop with the topicals. Maybe 200mg of topical would have taken me above 600, maybe it wouldn't have, but I decided to just do sub Q and go from there. My new protocol is 60mg of Cypionate and 300 IU of HCG same syringe with 30g sub q into belly and fat pad above glutes every 3 days. I will get labs done in 6 weeks. I have about 2 weeks worth of cream left I don't want to waste. I am wondering if it would be ok to rub it on for 2 weeks while doing my sub Q?

And how will you know if your revised Sub-Q protocol is giving you the higher level? Or is it the combined injection/topical? In starting a new protocol I believe that the fewer moving parts you work with the better.

 

[Vince]

My doc pretty much lets me run my own protocol. I wanted to try topicals first since it is the least invasive. I could have gone up to 200mg per day but I had a vial of Cypionate at home and I just opted to do sub q injections and stop with the topicals. Maybe 200mg of topical would have taken me above 600, maybe it wouldn't have, but I decided to just do sub Q and go from there. My new protocol is 60mg of Cypionate and 300 IU of HCG same syringe with 30g sub q into belly and fat pad above glutes every 3 days. I will get labs done in 6 weeks. I have about 2 weeks worth of cream left I don't want to waste. I am wondering if it would be ok to rub it on for 2 weeks while doing my sub Q?

I agree with Coast. I would skip the cream while starting a new protocol. Once you get good numbers you can play with the cream.

 

[1Draw]

I tried gels for 2 months and didn't do a thing for me. I felt awful. I believe creams and gels work well on rats and women.

 

[ERO]

Agree with Vince and CoastWatcher 100%. The "rule of thumb" is to only change one variable at a time or else you wont know what works or what doesn't work. Stick with the shots and make sure you get to the proper levels of Total T and E2 first before you mess with anything else.

 

[Vitamin_C]

Agree with Vince and CoastWatcher 100%. The "rule of thumb" is to only change one variable at a time or else you wont know what works or what doesn't work. Stick with the shots and make sure you get to the proper levels of Total T and E2 first before you mess with anything else.

Makes sense, sucks to waste the cream but oh well. Trying out sub Q Cypionate injects 60mg every 3 days with 300 IU of hcg as well.

 

[ERO]

After you reach a healthy steady-state with the injections and have a "known good" protocol, you might rub a small amount of the cream on to increase DHT if needed or wanted.