UPDATE 6 WK ON TRT - Please advise and share wisdom.

[BUD987]

Hi. Still very new to TRT. Would greatly appreciate advice/thoughts/insights from you pros.
Started JUNE 18 at 140 a week - 70mg q M/Th. HCG 350 q Tu/Fr.
Had issues with over stimulation and random anxiety/insomnia day after injection.
Per recs on this forum and talk with my Dr. lowered to 100mg/wk - 50mg x M/Th and same HCG.
Those odd random anxiety episodes subsided and I think theres definitely something to Test being a dopamine agonist/pro-dopaminergic agent. Fwiw Im sensitive to stimulants.

Still WAY too soon to claim any durable effect but subjectively I have noticed a 3-5/10 difference in energy, increase in morning erections and ability to get erections with porn. Much better if i get sleep. My schedule is crap and sleep is still inconsistent which Im sure is a big, big issue.

Main reason for TRT was bcs my libido and energy levels were low and very random/brittle. I feel less 'brittle' energy wise but libido isnt consistent. Prior to start labs also confirmed 2* hypo. TT/lcms 300s, Ft 30s I believe. Lastly Im a former propecia user so Im very concerned that will confound or complicate my TRT progress.

Labs at 4.5wk on 50mg 2x week [split 25mg shallow IM del and 25mg SC - M/Th each inj]. and hcg 350 T/Fr. Was rx'd anastrozole - Used at 0.5mg about 3 times during that 4.5wk, have now stopped:
Quest:
Trough day 4 before next shot.
TT via LCMS - 712 --[n=250-1100]
FT via dialysis - 136 --[n=35-155]
E2 ultrasens lcms - 18 --[n=<29]
SHBG - 22 -- [n=10-50]

I experienced a strong desire to inject more frequently for no real reason other than curiosity as well as Dr Sayas 'automobile' analogy. Plus theoretically at least it makes sense from a physiological pov.
On 7/26 I Started daily 16mg MWF and 14mg T, TH, Sat, Sun. = 104 mg /wk.
Been on that x1wk at this time.

What are your thoughts?
- Are my labs 'right'? Even though Im not feeling anything consistent? Is SHBG low, high, good range? E2 low, good? etc.
- Should I stay on the qM/Th protocol or ok to have changed to daily at same weekly dose total?
- Ive read here that when going daily you should lower your total weekly dose by as much as 20%. True?
- I have zero issues injecting daily from a needle/hassle pov. In fact its nice to just do daily and not think about it.
- By changing frequency to daily x 1wk have I set myself back in terms of being able to gauge results subjectively?
- Does HCG help anyone subjectively or do more people get negative effects than positive?

All I care about are subjective changes. I could care less what my numbers are.

Lastly, Ive been reading a lot of your posts regarding pregnenolone and allopreg on TRT. So much info on getting dialed in and staying dialed in. Im taking 30mg preg a few times a week. Confounding or helping or harmless?

 

[Systemlord]

Lastly, Ive been reading a lot of your posts regarding pregnenolone and allopreg on TRT.

It's important to keep it simply without adding a bunch of other stuff at least in the beginning, dial in on TRT in isolation.

Ive read here that when going daily you should lower your total weekly dose by as much as 20%. True?

This isn't a bad suggestion since more steady levels leads to smaller differences between peaks and trough and also cause you to have a higher trough.

By changing frequency to daily x 1wk have I set myself back in terms of being able to gauge results subjectively?

When changing anything about your protocol whether it be dosing or a change in injection frequency, you're leaving a steady state which requires time to re stabilize and longer for the body to adapt.

How long it takes your body to adapt to each protocol is going to be different for everyone.

 

[CKO]

At this point I would keep it simple. You body is or has shut down its natural production, which can causes anxiety and unease. It takes 3 to 6 months for things to stabilize. It's pretty common to want to change lots of things when you first start, but it isn't a good idea (systemlord is correct).

I personally do not feel better injecting more than 2x a week, some people prefer more. HCG is hit or miss for people. I cannot do more than 400-500 IU a week, without feeling anxious. BTW porn is terrible for libido and drive.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[BUD987]

This isn't a bad suggestion since more steady levels leads to smaller differences between peaks and trough and also cause you to have a higher trough

Thanks for the advice all.
System, are you suggesting it’s appropriate to go daily but to lower my total weekly dose to around 80mg? So about 12 MG a day?
Or stay on my 50 twice a week for how many number of weeks more before Retesting and thinking of changing frequency?
Seeing my labs on 100/wk split q3.5d , can you see any harm or benefit to going daily?

I am on Enanthate compounded with VitD, per my T clinics recs. Is that an issue? I have seen posts supporting Enanthate > Cypionate and vs vs. Your thoughts?

@Systemlord, @Cataceous

Thank you vm for the insights.

 

[Cataceous]

I agree with @Systemlord. Because your SHBG is somewhat below average you may well benefit from injecting more often and from lowering the dose. Rough estimates put your peak testosterone on E3.5D dosing at a little over 1,000 ng/dL, and the average around 800-900 ng/dL. With a 20% dose reduction you will likely still have higher free testosterone than the average healthy young man.

I think it's useful to have some dose-response measurements while on frequent injections—when serum testosterone stays fairly constant. That is, you measure total testosterone and SHBG. It's likely that free testosterone, whether calculated or measured accurately, is proportional to dose size. With the constant of proportionality you can then predict the effects of different doses.

For me, TRT with hCG is better than without, but there are tradeoffs, probably due to the extra aromatization promoted by hCG. In particular it's worth having a baseline prolactin measurement so you can see if it's going up over time.

 

[madman]

Hi. Still very new to TRT. Would greatly appreciate advice/thoughts/insights from you pros.
Started JUNE 18 at 140 a week - 70mg q M/Th. HCG 350 q Tu/Fr.
Had issues with over stimulation and random anxiety/insomnia day after injection.
Per recs on this forum and talk with my Dr. lowered to 100mg/wk - 50mg x M/Th and same HCG.
Those odd random anxiety episodes subsided and I think theres definitely something to Test being a dopamine agonist/pro-dopaminergic agent. Fwiw Im sensitive to stimulants.

Still WAY too soon to claim any durable effect but subjectively I have noticed a 3-5/10 difference in energy, increase in morning erections and ability to get erections with porn. Much better if i get sleep. My schedule is crap and sleep is still inconsistent which Im sure is a big, big issue.

Main reason for TRT was bcs my libido and energy levels were low and very random/brittle. I feel less 'brittle' energy wise but libido isnt consistent. Prior to start labs also confirmed 2* hypo. TT/lcms 300s, Ft 30s I believe. Lastly Im a former propecia user so Im very concerned that will confound or complicate my TRT progress.

Labs at 4.5wk on 50mg 2x week [split 25mg shallow IM del and 25mg SC - M/Th each inj]. and hcg 350 T/Fr. Was rx'd anastrozole - Used at 0.5mg about 3 times during that 4.5wk, have now stopped:
Quest:
Trough day 4 before next shot.
TT via LCMS - 712 --[n=250-1100]
FT via dialysis - 136 --[n=35-155]
E2 ultrasens lcms - 18 --[n=<29]
SHBG - 22 -- [n=10-50]

I experienced a strong desire to inject more frequently for no real reason other than curiosity as well as Dr Sayas 'automobile' analogy. Plus theoretically at least it makes sense from a physiological pov.
On 7/26 I Started daily 16mg MWF and 14mg T, TH, Sat, Sun. = 104 mg /wk.
Been on that x1wk at this time.

What are your thoughts?
- Are my labs 'right'? Even though Im not feeling anything consistent? Is SHBG low, high, good range? E2 low, good? etc.
- Should I stay on the qM/Th protocol or ok to have changed to daily at same weekly dose total?
- Ive read here that when going daily you should lower your total weekly dose by as much as 20%. True?
- I have zero issues injecting daily from a needle/hassle pov. In fact its nice to just do daily and not think about it.
- By changing frequency to daily x 1wk have I set myself back in terms of being able to gauge results subjectively?
- Does HCG help anyone subjectively or do more people get negative effects than positive?

All I care about are subjective changes. I could care less what my numbers are.

Lastly, Ive been reading a lot of your posts regarding pregnenolone and allopreg on TRT. So much info on getting dialed in and staying dialed in. Im taking 30mg preg a few times a week. Confounding or helping or harmless?

Hi. Still very new to TRT. Would greatly appreciate advice/thoughts/insights from you pros.
Started JUNE 18 at 140 a week - 70mg q M/Th. HCG 350 q Tu/Fr.
Had issues with over stimulation and random anxiety/insomnia day after injection.
Per recs on this forum and talk with my Dr. lowered to 100mg/wk - 50mg x M/Th and same HCG.

Starting on 140 mg T/week split (70 mg every 3.5 days) + hCG 350IU twice weekly would most likely have your trough TT, FT, and e2 levels very high as your SHBG is only 22 nmol/L.

As you can clearly see from the labs you had done 4.5 weeks in (too soon!) on the newer protocol 100 mg T/week split (50mg every 3.5 days) + hCG although your trough TT is far from absurdly high your trough FT is on the higher end and keep in mind that your peak will be higher.




Still WAY too soon to claim any durable effect but subjectively I have noticed a 3-5/10 difference in energy, increase in morning erections and ability to get erections with porn. Much better if i get sleep. My schedule is crap and sleep is still inconsistent which Im sure is a big, big issue.

Of course as not only is your HPG axis shutting down but hormones will be in flux during the weeks leading up until blood levels fully stabilize (4-6 weeks) and it is common for many to experience ups/downs as the body is trying to adjust.

Even then once blood levels have stabilized it will take another 2-3 months for the body to adapt to those new levels and this is the critical time period when one should gauge how they truly feel overall regarding relief/improvement of low-t symptoms/overall well-being.

When starting trt or tweaking a protocol the first 6 weeks can be very misleading and means nothing when looking at the bigger picture.

Every protocol whether starting trt or tweaking a protocol (dose T/injection frequency) needs to be given a full 12 weeks before claiming it was a success or failure.

This is where many fail as they lack the understanding of how exogenous T works!

Otherwise, you are going to be caught up on that never-ending merry-go-round chasing your tail until the cows come home.

Much easier said than done but patience is key!




Labs at 4.5wk on 50mg 2x week [split 25mg shallow IM del and 25mg SC - M/Th each inj]. and hcg 350 T/Fr. Was rx'd anastrozole - Used at 0.5mg about 3 times during that 4.5wk, have now stopped:
Quest:
Trough day 4 before next shot.
TT via LCMS - 712 --[n=250-1100]
FT via dialysis - 136 --[n=35-155]
E2 ultrasens lcms - 18 --[n=<29]
SHBG - 22 -- [n=10-50]

Blood work should be done at the 6-week mark.

If anything most should start on a T only protocol to see how you react to testosterone and where said protocol (dose T/injection frequency) has your trough TT, FT, and estradiol levels let alone other blood markers such as CBC which includes RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit.

Eventually one could add in hCG if the goal is to minimize/prevent testicular atrophy let alone maintain fertility.

The use of an AI should be avoided when first starting as it may very well never be needed.

Seeing as you jumped on the AI (Was rx'd anastrozole - Used at 0.5mg about 3 times during that 4.5wk, have now stopped) we have no clue where your trough e2 truly sits on such protocol let alone it may have had a NEGATIVE impacted how you felt overall.

2 big mistakes you made off the hop were having blood work done 4.5 weeks in and jumping on the AI!

Top it all off that you never even gave the protocol a FIGHTING CHANCE as again 12 weeks is needed.

No point in fretting over such as it is too late now seeing as you did a complete 360 starting a low dose daily protocol.




I experienced a strong desire to inject more frequently for no real reason other than curiosity as well as Dr Sayas 'automobile' analogy. Plus theoretically at least it makes sense from a physiological pov.
On 7/26 I Started daily 16mg MWF and 14mg T, TH, Sat, Sun. = 104 mg /wk.
Been on that x1wk at this time.

Hard to believe you would bail out 4.5 weeks in and hop on dailies when you were already given sensible advice on a previous thread you started.

You should know that it will take 2-3 months for the body to adapt to a new protocol.

post #6
Just starting TRT. Having a rough start with anxiety and insomnia.

Now you have to restart over and wait for blood levels to stabilize let alone give it another 2 months to gauge how you truly feel overall.

An SHBG 22 nmol/L is far from being what would be considered absurdly low.

If you are dead set on dailies so be it but unfortunately you may have faired well on a twice-weekly protocol.

No need to follow the 16/14 mg injection schedule.....keep the dose consistent.



All I care about are subjective changes. I could care less what my numbers are.

Again when starting trt let alone tweaking a protocol (dose T/injection frequency) 12 weeks is needed in order to gauge how one truly feels overall regarding relief/improvement of low-T symptoms and overall well-being.

There is no quick fix here!

 

[madman]

Hi. Still very new to TRT. Would greatly appreciate advice/thoughts/insights from you pros.
Started JUNE 18 at 140 a week - 70mg q M/Th. HCG 350 q Tu/Fr.
Had issues with over stimulation and random anxiety/insomnia day after injection.
Per recs on this forum and talk with my Dr. lowered to 100mg/wk - 50mg x M/Th and same HCG.
Those odd random anxiety episodes subsided and I think theres definitely something to Test being a dopamine agonist/pro-dopaminergic agent. Fwiw Im sensitive to stimulants.

Still WAY too soon to claim any durable effect but subjectively I have noticed a 3-5/10 difference in energy, increase in morning erections and ability to get erections with porn. Much better if i get sleep. My schedule is crap and sleep is still inconsistent which Im sure is a big, big issue.

Main reason for TRT was bcs my libido and energy levels were low and very random/brittle. I feel less 'brittle' energy wise but libido isnt consistent. Prior to start labs also confirmed 2* hypo. TT/lcms 300s, Ft 30s I believe. Lastly Im a former propecia user so Im very concerned that will confound or complicate my TRT progress.

Labs at 4.5wk on 50mg 2x week [split 25mg shallow IM del and 25mg SC - M/Th each inj]. and hcg 350 T/Fr. Was rx'd anastrozole - Used at 0.5mg about 3 times during that 4.5wk, have now stopped:
Quest:
Trough day 4 before next shot.
TT via LCMS - 712 --[n=250-1100]
FT via dialysis - 136 --[n=35-155]
E2 ultrasens lcms - 18 --[n=<29]
SHBG - 22 -- [n=10-50]

I experienced a strong desire to inject more frequently for no real reason other than curiosity as well as Dr Sayas 'automobile' analogy. Plus theoretically at least it makes sense from a physiological pov.
On 7/26 I Started daily 16mg MWF and 14mg T, TH, Sat, Sun. = 104 mg /wk.
Been on that x1wk at this time.

What are your thoughts?
- Are my labs 'right'? Even though Im not feeling anything consistent? Is SHBG low, high, good range? E2 low, good? etc.
- Should I stay on the qM/Th protocol or ok to have changed to daily at same weekly dose total?
- Ive read here that when going daily you should lower your total weekly dose by as much as 20%. True?
- I have zero issues injecting daily from a needle/hassle pov. In fact its nice to just do daily and not think about it.
- By changing frequency to daily x 1wk have I set myself back in terms of being able to gauge results subjectively?
- Does HCG help anyone subjectively or do more people get negative effects than positive?

All I care about are subjective changes. I could care less what my numbers are.

Lastly, Ive been reading a lot of your posts regarding pregnenolone and allopreg on TRT. So much info on getting dialed in and staying dialed in. Im taking 30mg preg a few times a week. Confounding or helping or harmless?

post #2

week 4 on TRT - lots of ups / downs

just started; baseline; Total T: 226 ng/dl Free: 7.62 ng/dl Estradiol: 16.1 pg/ml doc gave me 100mg/2weeks ( i know this is too low, and he seemed to be willing to go up to 100mg/week once my next bloodwork comes back at 4 weeks) - i switched to 1x week - 50mg as of now. initially I went...

www.excelmale.com

After your first injection T levels will start rising and due to the esterified T used (enanthate/cypionate) hormone levels over the following weeks will be in FLUX until blood levels stabilize (4-6 weeks).

During this time it is common for many to experience what we call the honeymoon period where many tend to notice an increase in overall well-being and libido due to androgen levels rising/increased dopamine but unfortunately, this is short-lived and temporary as the body will eventually adapt once blood levels have stabilized (4-6 weeks) let alone the hpta will be shut down within the first (2-6 weeks) of starting trt.

The first 6 weeks of therapy can be very misleading and many make the critical mistake of gauging how they feel overall regarding low-t symptoms because during the weeks leading up until blood levels stabilize your hormones are in flux.

Even then once blood levels stabilize (4-6 weeks) it will take the body another 2-3 months to adapt to those new levels and this is the critical time period when one should truly gauge how they feel overall regarding relief/improvement of low-t symptoms.

Many get caught up with the euphoric like feeling and intense libido that they can experience when first starting trt or tweaking a trt protocol (increasing T dose) but unfortunately this is temporary and short-lived as eventually, the body will adapt to those new levels and in most cases, as long as healthy TT/FT levels let alone other hormones are achieved on such protocol than one should experience the beneficial effects (mood/energy/libido/erections/recovery) but it will be more in the norm as opposed to the so-called amazing!

You are only 4 weeks in and most will wait 6 weeks then blood work will be done to see where such protocol (dose T/injection frequency) has you trough TT/FT/e2/DHT let alone blood markers such as RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit.

The goal of trt is to replace physiological levels of testosterone through the use of exogenous testosterone in order to achieve a healthy TT/FT level which will result in the relief/improvement of low-t symptoms while at the same time minimizing/avoiding any potential side effects (cosmetic/overall health) while keeping blood markers healthy long-term.

Blood work is critical!

 

[Systemlord]

System, are you suggesting it’s appropriate to go daily but to lower my total weekly dose to around 80mg? So about 12 MG a day?

Yes a daily protocol might be better as is going down to 80mg weekly. I found that a 1-2mg increase while on a daily protocol had big impacts on my Total and Free T levels and a big difference in how I felt.

You do need to give your protocols more time though, a minimum of 8 weeks.

 

[BUD987]

I agree with @Systemlord. Because your SHBG is somewhat below average you may well benefit from injecting more often and from lowering the dose. Rough estimates put your peak testosterone on E3.5D dosing at a little over 1,000 ng/dL, and the average around 800-900 ng/dL. With a 20% dose reduction you will likely still have higher free testosterone than the average healthy young man.

I think it's useful to have some dose-response measurements while on frequent injections—when serum testosterone stays fairly constant. That is, you measure total testosterone and SHBG. It's likely that free testosterone, whether calculated or measured accurately, is proportional to dose size. With the constant of proportionality you can then predict the effects of different doses.

For me, TRT with hCG is better than without, but there are tradeoffs, probably due to the extra aromatization promoted by hCG. In particular it's worth having a baseline prolactin measurement so you can see if it's going up over time.

I dont want to take advantage of the forum members' time with my questions. Thank you for your insights. This is tough going unfortunately and I wish my progress was more linear and stable. @Cataceous @Systemlord @madman.

I was on the daily protocol x7d only. Back to 50 TE+vitD q M/F.

Summarizing My TRT so far- mostly for my own clarity:

JUNE 18th:
Started 70mg TE+Vit D compound q M/Th. 350hcg Q Tu/Fr + 0.5mg AI q wk -- x 2wk then lowered due to insomnia and anxiety

JULY 5th:
Lowered dose to 50mg TE+Vit D compound q M/Th. Ancillaries same as above.

JULY 23 -- LABS 5wk total on TRT at this point -- see OP above.

JULY 26th:
Started daily 14mg as above. X7d only.

AUG 2:
**I am back on the 50mg Test Enanthate+10000iu vit D compound q M/F and 350iu HCG qT/Th. No AI.

AUG 9: At this point Ive been on TRT for almost 8wk. Albeit with variations in protocols and doses but never below 100mg within 7d, really except for 1wk at 14mg/d was never below 100mg within the 4.5d half life of TE.

I have scheduled a consult W/ Dr Saya for further insight and a 2nd opinion as well.

Questions for the forum:

1: If anything I feel slightly better, less 'agitated' and less hormonally unstable during my 'trough' than peak at 12-24h or so after my 50mg injection. Per the discussion above, my peak on my current 50mg biw protocol is likely supraphysiological [1200+] TT. My trough at 4d, with a 4.5d half life of TE, was around 712.

Q1.1: Do I just shut up, suck it up and change NOTHING and retest in 8wk? OR is there merit and a scientifically appropriate way to tune the protocol during this time -- assuming Im fine with any frequency of labs and injections?Knowing Ive basically been on 100mg or more for that last 8wk.

Q1.2: OR is there a good chance Ill feel less activated and more hormonally balanced with 30mg M/W/F? -- and then just stick to that for 8wk and retest?
Intuitively I feel less T is more comfortable given my above numbers BUT logically and anecdotally I have no clue.

2: Subjectively, yes I feel like crap. Cold, retracted penis/scrotum -- like I had on occasion prior to TRT. Weak/Little to no morning erections. Inconsistent emotional resilience - ie bitchy, moody, tired. Peeing more/less tolerance to full bladder.

Q2.1: ?Related to HIGH E2 spikes secondary to my supra-physiological Peaks on current protocol, as members posited above?

Q3.1: An underlying, deep concern is that my previous propecia use will permanently affect my ability to benefit from TRT. Experience and insights from prop users who TRT helped?

Q4.1: Any possible benefit to changing to a non compounded Test Enanthate or Test Cypionate? Ie: One from a Walgreens and WITHOUT the VitD?
My pharmacy currently is Hallandale. Any experiences? I have seen members that prefer one ester over the other. Further experience appreciated.

5: The HCG is for fertility maintenance:
I have a sperm bank/analysis coming next week. If viable I will bank. IF not, then that's a whole other can of worms. As I was viable prior to TRT.
Q5.1 : Does my current protocol of 350iu biw have ANYTHING to do with the fact that Im feeling crappy/unbalanced?

 

[madman]

I dont want to take advantage of the forum members' time with my questions. Thank you for your insights. This is tough going unfortunately and I wish my progress was more linear and stable. @Cataceous @Systemlord @madman.

I was on the daily protocol x7d only. Back to 50 TE+vitD q M/F.

Summarizing My TRT so far- mostly for my own clarity:

JUNE 18th:
Started 70mg TE+Vit D compound q M/Th. 350hcg Q Tu/Fr + 0.5mg AI q wk -- x 2wk then LOWERED due to insomnia and anxiety

JULY 5th:
LOWERED DOSE to 50mg TE+Vit D compound q M/Th. Ancillaries same as above.

JULY 23 -- LABS 5wk total on TRT at this point -- see OP above.

JULY 26th:
Started daily 14mg as above. X7d only.

AUG 2:
**I am back on the 50mg Test Enanthate+10000iu vit D compound q M/F and 350iu HCG qT/Th. No AI.

AUG 9: At this point Ive been on TRT for almost 8wk. Albeit with VARIATIONS IN PROTOCOLS AND DOSES but never below 100mg within 7d, really except for 1wk at 14mg/d was never below 100mg within the 4.5d half life of TE.

I have scheduled a consult W/ Dr Saya for further insight and a 2nd opinion as well.

Questions for the forum:

1: If anything I feel slightly better, less 'agitated' and less hormonally unstable during my 'trough' than peak at 12-24h or so after my 50mg injection. Per the discussion above, my peak on my current 50mg biw protocol is likely supraphysiological [1200+] TT. My trough at 4d, with a 4.5d half life of TE, was around 712.

Q1.1: Do I just shut up, suck it up and change NOTHING and retest in 8wk? OR is there merit and a scientifically appropriate way to tune the protocol during this time -- assuming Im fine with any frequency of labs and injections?Knowing Ive basically been on 100mg or more for that last 8wk.

Q1.2: OR is there a good chance Ill feel less activated and more hormonally balanced with 30mg M/W/F? -- and then just stick to that for 8wk and retest?
Intuitively I feel less T is more comfortable given my above numbers BUT logically and anecdotally I have no clue.

2: Subjectively, yes I feel like crap. Cold, retracted penis/scrotum -- like I had on occasion prior to TRT. Weak/Little to no morning erections. Inconsistent emotional resilience - ie bitchy, moody, tired. Peeing more/less tolerance to full bladder.

Q2.1: ?Related to HIGH E2 spikes secondary to my supra-physiological Peaks on current protocol, as members posited above?

Q3.1: An underlying, deep concern is that my previous propecia use will permanently affect my ability to benefit from TRT. Experience and insights from prop users who TRT helped?

Q4.1: Any possible benefit to changing to a non compounded Test Enanthate or Test Cypionate? Ie: One from a Walgreens and WITHOUT the VitD?
My pharmacy currently is Hallandale. Any experiences? I have seen members that prefer one ester over the other. Further experience appreciated.

5: The HCG is for fertility maintenance:
I have a sperm bank/analysis coming next week. If viable I will bank. IF not, then that's a whole other can of worms. As I was viable prior to TRT.
Q5.1 : Does my current protocol of 350iu biw have ANYTHING to do with the fact that Im feeling crappy/unbalanced?

Summarizing My TRT so far- mostly for my own clarity:

JUNE 18th:
Started 70mg TE+Vit D compound q M/Th. 350hcg Q Tu/Fr + 0.5mg AI q wk -- x 2wk then LOWERED due to insomnia and anxiety

JULY 5th:
LOWERED DOSE to 50mg TE+Vit D compound q M/Th. Ancillaries same as above.

JULY 23 -- LABS 5wk total on TRT at this point -- see OP above.

Forget the 5 weeks as this all means nothing!

Your starting trt protocol 140 mg T/week split (70 mg twice weekly) was only for 2 weeks.

Then you went and lowered your dose on July 5th to 100 mg T/week split (50 mg twice weekly).

Labs were then done July 23 which would have only been roughly 3 weeks (not 5) on the current protocol.....way too soon!


JULY 26th:
Started daily 14mg as above. X7d only.

AUG 2:
**I am back on the 50mg Test Enanthate+10000iu vit D compound q M/F and 350iu HCG qT/Th. No AI.

AUG 9: At this point Ive been on TRT for almost 8wk. Albeit with VARIATIONS IN PROTOCOLS AND DOSES but never below 100mg within 7d, really except for 1wk at 14mg/d was never below 100mg within the 4.5d half life of TE.

July 26.....3 days later you do a complete 360 and hop on dailies using roughly the same weekly dose of T (98 mg/week) split daily let alone remain on such protocol for only 7 days then bail and do another 360 only to end up back on 100mg T/week split into twice-weekly injections (50 mg every 3.5 days).

You need to pick a protocol (dose T/injection frequency) and stick with it.

The protocol needs to be consistent week after week!

Blood work is only done when blood levels have stabilized (4-6 weeks).....most would wait for 6.

We want to see how your body reacts to testosterone only and where said protocol (dose T/injection frequency) has your TT, FT, estradiol, SHBG let alone other blood health markers.

Any time you start tweaking a protocol which unfortunately you have done numerous times (within the first 8 weeks) you will need to start over again as blood levels will take 4-6 weeks to stabilize.

The only sensible thing you had done during those 8 weeks was dropping the AI on Aug 2!


AUG 2:
**I am back on the 50mg Test Enanthate+10000iu vit D compound q M/F and 350iu HCG qT/Th. No AI.

Now you will need to stay on this protocol and wait another 4-6 weeks for blood levels to stabilize then have your blood work done.

Even then if you achieve a healthy trough TT/FT level then you will need to give the protocol another 2 months to gauge how you truly feel overall regarding relief/improvement of low-t symptoms and overall well-being.

Every protocol needs to be given a fighting chance.....12 weeks before tweaking dose/injection frequency.

If you keep changing protocols every few weeks let alone at 6 weeks you are in for a world of hurt.

Again T levels will be in flux during the weeks leading up until blood levels have stabilized and during this time it is common for many to experience ups/downs as the body is trying to adjust.

Once blood levels have stabilize it will take another 2 months for the body to fully adapt.


Q1.1: Do I just shut up, suck it up and change NOTHING and retest in 8wk? OR is there merit and a scientifically appropriate way to tune the protocol during this time -- assuming Im fine with any frequency of labs and injections?Knowing Ive basically been on 100mg or more for that last 8wk.

Most definitely!

If by chance at the 6-week mark when blood work is done your trough T levels are too low (highly doubtful) or too high (could very well be) let alone you were experiencing negative symptoms due to such then the protocol may need to be tweaked.

 

[Fortunate]

I would recommend controlling one variable at a time. Maybe drop the hCG and see how you feel. Some people feel great on it. Others hate it. Other thing is I would consider getting rid of the vitamin D. I recall getting a compounded version with it and it really didn’t agree with me. That said, not much does agree with me!

 

[BUD987]

Thank you @Fortunate. That’s what I’m going to do.

I recently posted that my sperm bank just informed me the sample I submitted and froze prior to starting trt may have been compromised.

I’ve been on trt for 7or so weeks now. Hcg at 350 Twice a week.

When I got the news I just started hcg 500iu eod. Been on that for 7d now.

Giving another sperm sample on the 20th. Will freeze if viable.

Nelson’s posts and some studies show that dosage is often enough to improve ITT and hopefully restore or preserve spermatogenesis.

I am planning on giving the sample on the 20th and continuing the hCG 500 EOD till I get the results back at least before dropping it back down. What are your thoughts? The hCG is for fertility.

 

[madman]

I would recommend controlling one variable at a time. Maybe drop the hCG and see how you feel. Some people feel great on it. Others hate it. Other thing is I would consider getting rid of the vitamin D. I recall getting a compounded version with it and it really didn’t agree with me. That said, not much does agree with me!

He needs to keep his protocol (dose T/injection frequency) consistent before fretting over such!

 

[BUD987]

He needs to keep his protocol (dose T/injection frequency) consistent before fretting over such!

Yes. 100%. Want to stick to same protocol now regardless of subjective progress. BUT the damn sperm bank issue came up out of the blue. I banked before starting TRT but now have to give another sample. Different bank. SO my T protocol is going to be the same for at least 8 wk -- 34mg MWF. But my HCG had to change- now on 500 EOD till I get my results back at least after the 20th.

 

[JayD]

Yes. 100%. Want to stick to same protocol now regardless of subjective progress. BUT the damn sperm bank issue came up out of the blue. I banked before starting TRT but now have to give another sample. Different bank. SO my T protocol is going to be the same for at least 8 wk -- 34mg MWF. But my HCG had to change- now on 500 EOD till I get my results back at least after the 20th.

How are things going? Have you got an update for us?

 

[BUD987]

*dictated. Forgive grammar and syntax errors.
Hi Jay. Nothing useful to report. Still working it all out. But one day if and when I get sorted I’ll bring my experience here. I’m off testosterone for now. Ergogenics and energy on trt we’re the only thing that seemed to be improved. Main purpose was for energy, mood and most of all libido and sexual consistency. Got off trt in May I think. Waited two weeks to dry out then started Working with enclomiphene 12.5mg mwf, anastrozole 0.1mg mwf,. Labs on spreadsheet from July.

Only time I had proper consistent libido and on demand erectile function in whole time on HRT was for 6-8wk on enclo protocol as above. BUT mood was way off. Tired, anxious, anhedonic. However there was a lot going on in life. So it’s impossible to say what caused the mood issues. One or the other or both.

I made a spreadsheet of my experience so far. Strange journey. Would chop off one of my toes for a clear path forward. Wish I could offer clear advice on what works for sure. Low progesterone, and allopregnenolone and other issues likely a component. Not sure how the androgens and neurosteroids all fit yet. But I do suspect that they are a component in being able to tolerate and fully benefit from TRT for me. From previous propecia use I likely have low five AR activity or density. Just not sure if pills, creams, injections of progesterone or pregnenolone or appropriate or what the dosing schedule, testing regimen etc. would be.

Nothing has seemed to truly stick yet. That six week of normal sexual function on enclo were fascinating. Wonder why.

Problem started when at about 6-7 weeks ON ENCLO/ANA I decided to stop the anast without labs because I was wondering if it was the depressant factor. The labs from July were taken before I did this. Then after a week off ana, only on ENCLO, having normal MW and masturbatory ability, OVERNIGHT/same day, went from strong morning erection and ability to what felt like a sympathetic stress response when masturbating that evening— palpitations, a little anxiety and then loss of erection and desire. Happened literally same day. That continued. Crash or some strange reaction of sort. Felt that along time ago when I was not on therapy. High estrogen low androgens low Neuro steroids some combination? I have no idea because I don’t have labs from those events.

Possible e2 overload sx or some kind of androgen or e2 receptor issue. Previous propecia user. Idk.

Meeting with Saya this week. Got labs last week after 2wk on basically nothing besides some progesterone cream from NOW on scrotum.

Back on enclo/ana 12.5mg/0.1mg mwf. Dhea 25hs. Other defy doc wanted me on the above Daily. Will run by Saya.

Want to make this process scientific. Regimented. Control variable etc. tired of the nonsense.