TRT Sub-Q & HCG Timing

[DaveK22]

Say one has the following protocol for TRT (test c) sub-q: 50mg E3.5D. And now one wants to add in just enough HCG to prevent atrophy (& not for fertility reasons), so say 250 i.u. 2x week.

Questions:

1. What days (in relation to the test shots) would be best for adding in the HCG? Keeping E2 conversion to a minimum is also key.

2. Also, would dropping the "test c" to 45mg E3.5D be enough to offset the gains in endogenous testosterone produced by the HCG at the 250 i.u. 2x week level?

Thx in advance.

 

[Fireproof]

Most of us that are on twice/week Test and HCG will inject them on the same days. So I'm on e3.5D protocol.

So Monday morning, and Thursday evening, I inject both Test-Cyp and HCG. (Some people even combine them into one syringe/injection, but I don't. If you are interested - there's a great video that Nigel created that shows him doing it...)

As for the reduction in Test-Cyp to offset endo test production - I'm not sure. Maybe others would have an idea.

 

[DaveK22]

Most of us that are on twice/week Test and HCG will inject them on the same days. So I'm on e3.5D protocol.

So Monday morning, and Thursday evening, I inject both Test-Cyp and HCG. (Some people even combine them into one syringe/injection, but I don't. If you are interested - there's a great video that Nigel created that shows him doing it...)

As for the reduction in Test-Cyp to offset endo test production - I'm not sure. Maybe others would have an idea.

Thanks for the reply. Same day actually would make things easier...same 2 days & time every week. I saw the video about mixing the 2, guess its an interesting concept. For me I think its just as easy to do 2 separate & then one can use 2 different gauge needles, i.e. 31g for HCG & 27g for test-c.

Also, in my mind, if one was using higher doses of HCG for fertility reasons, then maybe they would inject at the t's trough (say 12-24 hrs before next shot). Make sense? But just to keep the boys plump, then same day probably is the way.

 

[Fireproof]

I'm dosing 350iu of HCG and was told to do it on the same day as Test. Maybe someone else who is using higher HCG can comment.

I agree that for scheduling/compliance it makes it all simple. And like you - i don't find 2 injections difficult at all. And I prefer to use small insulin pin for HCG into the belly fat, and then a 27g needle for shallow-IM injection into Quads or Delts for Test.

 

[ERO]

When you inject Test at least twice a week, the timing of the HCG is not so crucial. With outdated once a week Test shots, there were all sorts of complicated HCG routines to try to boost your T levels before the next T shot. Twice weekly or more often evens out the peaks and troughs so one doesn't need to do that.

 

[Vince Carter]

HCG timing and dosing are all over the place, I don't really believe that there's a timing issue of any consequence. People use 100iu daily, 250is E3.5D and everything in between, those two being the most popular.

And Endo T production is at best negligible and no reason to alter your TCyp dosage.

 

[Vince]

I also inject my T and HCG on the same day, every 3 1/2 days. No AI and no E2 issues.

 

[midlifealpha]

My Estradiol was pretty high as of the last blood test so I decided to take some of the 1mg Anastrazole twice per week until my next exam which should be soon.

I used to do all the shots on the same day but recently I switched to this below and for whatever reason it seemed to help with an extremely healthy sex drive and I even had an orgasm having sex. My partner is 5'8 140 with natural D's on a skinny but hourglass frame. I seemed to be a lot more primal judging by her reaction and I almost never cum having sex (which hurts her) and this is an extremely sexy woman. I changed to this below I have no idea if it helped or I just simply got lucky.

Test - Mon morning/Thurs Evening 100mg
HCG - 5000 iu Tuesday Morning/Friday night
Lipo-C - 1.5 ML same time as HCG (Really unrelated but was taking 3 shots at once before)
Anastrazole - 1mg Wed and Saturday.

If my Estradiol is tamed back down after the next exam, I will stop the Anastrazole again and see what happens. I do think as I've mentioned in other threads dropping body fat and getting better sleep might help, but I'm my own lab experiment.

I've just felt a little better after not taking everything together and I know it's anecdotal. After all Nelson shows us how he combines his HCG and Test into the Deltoid, so I doubt that it's necessary, but I saw a thread where one of the regulars here recommended to someone spreading these out so I thought what the hell and tried it.

 

[DeMegaMan619]

Midlife, is that the correct hcg dosage you are using?

 

[torrential]

Midlife,

2mg per week? That's a hefty dose of anastrozole for a male. Are you familiar with the symptoms of low E? Get ready - it comes at you like an aching soul sucking freight train.

Just my two cents but are you confident in that dose - very few of us go any near that much. <1mg/week dosed e2d or e3d is more common.

 

[Bama Boy]

How does sub-q differ from IM ? why would you do sub-Q ? Just curious

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

My Estradiol was pretty high as of the last blood test so I decided to take some of the 1mg Anastrazole twice per week until my next exam which should be soon.

Test - Mon morning/Thurs Evening 100mg
HCG - 5000 iu Tuesday Morning/Friday night
Lipo-C - 1.5 ML same time as HCG (Really unrelated but was taking 3 shots at once before)
Anastrazole - 1mg Wed and Saturday.

Along with what some of the other guys have asked....

You meant 500 IUs of HCG, not 5000...correct?

Also, like Torrential said, your Anastrozole dose is HUGE. What was your sensitive E2 level, and high E2 symptoms to warrant that kind of dosage? Please tell me that a doctor didn't prescribe that much.

Please be careful, because the last thing you want to do is crash your E2. You will feel like shit, and it takes a long time to recover.

 

[ERO]

How does sub-q differ from IM ? why would you do sub-Q ? Just curious

With SubQ one can use an insulin syringe (29, 30 or 31 gauge) instead of the typical 1" long 25 gauge needle commonly used for IM. Likely 95% of guys here are going SubQ.

 

[Bama Boy]

With SubQ one can use an insulin syringe (29, 30 or 31 gauge) instead of the typical 1" long 25 gauge needle commonly used for IM. Likely 95% of guys here are going SubQ.

I thought it was still IM if injected in the shoulder ?

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

I thought it was still IM if injected in the shoulder ?

It depends on your body composition, and the length of the needle. If you're lean and muscular, a 1/2" needle is more than likely going shallow IM. If you have a higher body fat content, it's probably going SubQ.

For me personally, I don't use any needle longer than 1/2"...I don't need to. With a 1/2" needle, I'm going shallow IM into either my delts or quads.

 

[Bama Boy]

Thanks Brother ! Makes sense !

It depends on your body composition, and the length of the needle. If you're lean and muscular, a 1/2" needle is more than likely going shallow IM. If you have a higher body fat content, it's probably going SubQ.

For me personally, I don't use any needle longer than 1/2"...I don't need to. With a 1/2" needle, I'm going shallow IM into either my delts or quads.

 

[midlifealpha]

Along with what some of the other guys have asked....

You meant 500 IUs of HCG, not 5000...correct?

Also, like Torrential said, your Anastrozole dose is HUGE. What was your sensitive E2 level, and high E2 symptoms to warrant that kind of dosage? Please tell me that a doctor didn't prescribe that much.

Please be careful, because the last thing you want to do is crash your E2. You will feel like shit, and it takes a long time to recover.

Yes I'm sorry 500 iu. Basically 50 on a normal diabetic syringe.

My sensitive Estradiol was 104.2.
Testosterone was 999 ng/DL
Free Test was 32

I don't mind stopping these pills immediately. My last test with Defy was January so the next one will be soon. These were prescribed from a previous regime and my E2 was never that high.

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

Yes I'm sorry 500 iu. Basically 50 on a normal diabetic syringe.

My sensitive Estradiol was 104.2.
Testosterone was 999 ng/DL
Free Test was 32

I don't mind stopping these pills immediately. My last test with Defy was January so the next one will be soon. These were prescribed from a previous regime and my E2 was never that high.

Was this blood test drawn at your trough? Sorry for all the questions...just trying to put all the pieces of the puzzle together. What did Defy tell you when they saw that 100+ E2 level? No adjustments to your protocol? I was curious if you had any overt symptoms of your high E2, like sensitive nipples, mood swings, water retention, loss of sex drive, etc?

 

[midlifealpha]

I didn't feel anything bodywise. I do have a tendency to mouth off at someone being a **** whereas before TRT I didn't say much. Now if someone cuts in line, I just say "hey get in the back and wait like the rest of us". Also an incident at a bar, but in each case I never did anything to cause the problem, but my reaction was definitely stronger than it used to be. I am not emotional in the crying sense. Sex drive is very strong.

Actually the Nurse from Defy thought I should try taking 1 pill per week, but since I basically wasn't experiencing side effects to not do anything rash. So I am going to cut that back. I don't want to crash the E2.