TRT- High Estradiol and bad related symptoms, DHEA, Thyroid.. Making sense of it all?

[BillyJ03z]

I am a 44 yr old male, been on TRT for 7 plus years Test Cyp @ 200mg/ml dosed at .5ml 2 x wk (mon/thurs).. no AI...

While on TRT, I have always felt somewhat average to below average energy level wise, never had great/refreshing sleep as I have been taking Ambien and/or Nyquil to help sleep, and never really felt any kind of noticeable strength/endurance increase for a prolonged period. However, I did eat clean and managed to keep a decent proportioned physique during this time.

In the past 3 months things have gotten incredibly and noticeably worse, I started to have very bad sleep issues like insomnia, constantly waking up every night between 3-4:30 am not being able to fall back asleep, became very irritable to the point where just my wife asking me how my day was irritated the hell out of me (this is and never has been my personality), very depressed, no energy, lack of motivation, weight gain around mid section (more than usual), very sensitive/emotional, easily frustrated, memory issues, urination issues regarding slower stream and some dripping which I never had before, I thought I was imagining my penis shrinking when soft, when I had sex I became more sensitive and only lasting about 15minutes when I normally could go as long as I wanted, my ejaculation has become more watery and not as pleasurable, noticing my facial hair becoming softer-lighter color than usual coarse medium brown color, my head hair has rapidly thinned all over and is very dry/brittle...

*The only thing that has changed in the last the 4-5 months of my TRT regimen is that I started supplementing DHEA @ 10-20mg ed along with 7-keto dhea @ 50mg ed .. My DHEA on all my blood work forever was in the bottom 5-10% of the reference range and my DR. recommended I start using DHEA to get values up... (I know the DHEA is the culprit for the high E2 values).. Also, I never used AI during my entire time on TRT and my E2 has always ranged from 30 to 58 and my SHBG has always been anywhere usually from 13 to 19 while on TRT. .

Obviously I knew something was wrong so I had 3 different blood work drawn (I had blood drawn by Accurate Labs subset of LabCorp).. I had BW drawn 12-24 fast after injection (1st injection of week), drawn 3 days after inject no fast, and drawn 12-24 fast after injection (2nd inject of week)

first bw (12-24 fast after 1st inject of week)
-Total Test 1036
-Free Test 39
-SHBG 12
-Estradiol 136
-TSH 2.9
-FT4 1.1
-FT3 4.2

2nd bw (3day after inject)
-Total Test 625
-Free Test 23
-SHBG 16
-Estradiol 68
-TSH 3.1
-FT4 1.2
-FT3 3.3

3rd bw (12-24 hour fast after 2nd inject of week)
-Total Test 1008
-Free Test 29
-SHBG 15
-Estradiol 103
-TSH 2.7
-FT4 .9
-FT3 3.0
*PSA .097
* I am scheduled for Prostate exam next week..

After reading through all the threads on Excelmale and searching information across the internet, I realize that due to my low SHBG I am more sensitive to Estradiol effects. So basically when my E2 was in the 30-58 range it was still too high due to my SHBG levels and when the E2 spiked to over 100 in the past 3-4 months my body just became overwhelmed with Estrogen. I also believe I may be Hypothryoid but not sure if it's indirectly due to the high E2 levels and if my SHBG is in the lower range because of possibly being Hypo..

I got script from my Dr. and I am now taking Adex .5mg 3xWk for the first week and will drop down to .25mg 3xWk for the next 3 wks and have BW drawn again.

I have also changed my Test dosing... I decreased from 1ml to .75ml, injecting .25ml 3xWk (mon, wed, fri)..

Any and all comments and recommendation is greatly appreciated!

 

[lowe2sucks]

im curious how adex will treat you.. if you will feel that your symptoms are getting worse it will confirm my theory on dhea..
if dhea indeed raised e2 level then adex should fix it and make you feel better.. in a week or two.. if it will make you feel worse or more sick then high e2 was not an issue and dhea actually lowered your e2 even if it showed high values on bloodwork (i know this may sound stupid but his experiment with adex will show us what was going on)
do you have any of these symptoms:
Body temperature changes.
Decreased sexual libido
Skin irritations
Vocal changes
Weight gain
Gonad size changes
Body odor changes
Joint Cracking or Soreness
Lack of libido - but powerful erections in the case of sufficient DHT levels.
Heart pump changes, fluttering sensation due to lower blood pressure.
Skin changes; hyperpigmentation or pale-looking skin.
Hair follicle inflammation - excessive hair growth.
Fatigue and depression.
Anxiety / Obsessions
Blunted emotion.

• Fatigue along the lines of sleepiness
• hypersomnia (sleeping too much and too often)
• strong erections but limited sensitivity
• loss of erections
• joint pain, clicking or popping joints
• eye fatigue (eyes seem more tired despite adequate sleep, dark circles)
• loss of libido (interest in sex)
• difficulty retaining water (constant urination)
• anxiety, depression, irritability

 

[Systemlord]

You're losing your testosterone faster than you're losing your estrogen and the high free hormones is creating a ton of free estrogen that your liver isn't able to clear out fast enough, it's no wonder you haven't really felt all that good on TRT. This protocol is poorly designed and is usually for a guy with high SHBG, you've wasted 7 years and don't even know how amazing TRT can make you feel.

My SHBG is slightly higher than yours and I felt terrible with high normal testosterone levels that has more to do with high estrogen and high free estrogen. The amount of SHBG you have, you can't hold onto that much testosterone at any given time, you're dumping most of it and holding onto all that estrogen. Inject 50mg twice weekly and remove the AI for now.

 

[BillyJ03z]

Systemlord..
Wouldn't my body process the test too fast dosing 50mg twice/wk as you stated due to my low SHBG??? would it be better injecting .20mg three times/wk to keep test levels in the body with less huge spikes in levels?
Am I Hypo (self-induced) due to having low SHBG and high hormone levels?
Honestly, I'm afraid to drop the AI at the moment until I get my level down...... also, my lipid panels used to be all in check but in the past 1 1/2 to 2 yrs they have not been good.
Thank you for the help...

 

[Vince Carter]

You're losing your testosterone faster than you're losing your estrogen and the high free hormones is creating a ton of free estrogen that your liver isn't able to clear out fast enough, it's no wonder you haven't really felt all that good on TRT. This protocol is poorly designed and is usually for a guy with high SHBG, you've wasted 7 years and don't even know how amazing TRT can make you feel.

My SHBG is slightly higher than yours and I felt terrible with high normal testosterone levels that has more to do with high estrogen and high free estrogen. The amount of SHBG you have, you can't hold onto that much testosterone at any given time, you're dumping most of it and holding onto all that estrogen. Inject 50mg twice weekly and remove the AI for now.

I really appreciate that I'm not the only one that is getting a grasp on this as it applies to the low SHBG guy.

 

[rhino5169]

You're losing your testosterone faster than you're losing your estrogen and the high free hormones is creating a ton of free estrogen that your liver isn't able to clear out fast enough, it's no wonder you haven't really felt all that good on TRT. This protocol is poorly designed and is usually for a guy with high SHBG, you've wasted 7 years and don't even know how amazing TRT can make you feel.

My SHBG is slightly higher than yours and I felt terrible with high normal testosterone levels that has more to do with high estrogen and high free estrogen. The amount of SHBG you have, you can't hold onto that much testosterone at any given time, you're dumping most of it and holding onto all that estrogen. Inject 50mg twice weekly and remove the AI for now.

Systemlord,
I'd appreciate feedback. I have almost exactly the same symptoms, yet my shbg is 24. Would you say I fall into this category and should do the same as you recommended?
Sort to hijack, but this is so much the same I wanted to keep it here.

 

[BillyJ03z]

The thing that scares me the most of all my symptoms is the depression and lack of sleep..... This shit feeling is real!

 

[rhino5169]

The thing that scares me the most of all my symptoms is the depression and lack of sleep..... This shit feeling is real!

Welcome to the club brother.....i've been this way quite a while. Has gotten worse last 2 weeks

 

[1Draw]

The thing that scares me the most of all my symptoms is the depression and lack of sleep..... This shit feeling is real!

If you haven't already had a full Thyroid panel, I would have that done first. If everything is in optimal ranges, then I would have a sleep study done. Could be sleep apnea.....

Thyroid.... https://www.restartmed.com/normal-thyroid-levels/

Sleep Apnea.... https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/8718-sleep-apnea

Good luck and keep us informed.

 

[BillyJ03z]

If you haven't already had a full Thyroid panel, I would have that done first. If everything is in optimal ranges, then I would have a sleep study done. Could be sleep apnea.....

Thyroid.... https://www.restartmed.com/normal-thyroid-levels/

Sleep Apnea.... https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/8718-sleep-apnea

Good luck and keep us informed.

Hey bro,

I had sleep study done, I had to stay overnight at the as was monitored... that was very first thing I had tested when I became the poster child for Insomnia... Result: No sleep apnea and/or obstruction....
As far as Thyroid, I just went back and looked at my blood work from the last 14 years and the commonality is that my TSH has fluctuated between 1.5 and 3.9, FT4 has always been somewhere in bottom 15% of reference range and FT3 has always been somewhere in the top 60% of reference range, my total T3 has always been somewhere in bottom 25% of reference range. From what I have researched is that the FT4 should be mid-range or higher and total T3 should be in top 70%.. The link you provided again confirms this as my last fasting BW (last week) showed my TSH 2.73, FT .87 and FT3 3.4 and total T3 104.
My Dr. offered me to start a trial run of ND thyroid but I wanted to wait until I get my very obvious E symptoms in check as I want to eliminate factors one at a time rather than trying a whole bunch of different things and not knowing what is working or not. From what I researched is that high E can suppress thyroid function and the thyroid issues may be the reason why my SHBG is between 13-20 on the reference range.
At this point my blood work thyroid panels clearly shows I have thyroid issues on top of the current E2 issues...

 

[1Draw]

The thing that scares me the most of all my symptoms is the depression and lack of sleep..... This shit feeling is real!

Good thyroid panel but, missing the most important IMOP is the Reverse T3 test. Here is a good source for Reverse T3 - https://www.restartmed.com/reverse-t3/

Here is a good link to OPTIMAL thyroid levels... https://www.restartmed.com/normal-thyroid-levels/

I am just now treating my high RT3 - 28.1 ng/gl (9.4 - 24.1) and was experiencing many of same symptoms you are. Going to bed early, waking up 4-5 am and not being able to go back to sleep, fatigue upon waking and during day, and having to take a nap in afternoons just to get thru the day.

Great website for high T3 symptoms and causes....https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/reverse-t3//

Good stuff! Wish I had known this 10 years ago... Good luck and keep us updated!

 

[BillyJ03z]

Good thyroid panel but, missing the most important IMOP is the Reverse T3 test. Here is a good source for Reverse T3 - https://www.restartmed.com/reverse-t3/

Here is a good link to OPTIMAL thyroid levels... https://www.restartmed.com/normal-thyroid-levels/

I am just now treating my high RT3 - 28.1 ng/gl (9.4 - 24.1) and was experiencing many of same symptoms you are. Going to bed early, waking up 4-5 am and not being able to go back to sleep, fatigue upon waking and during day, and having to take a nap in afternoons just to get thru the day.

Great website for high T3 symptoms and causes....https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/reverse-t3//

Good stuff! Wish I had known this 10 years ago... Good luck and keep us updated!

Back in 2010, I did have a RT3 test done... it came back at 23 and my calculated ratio was 15.8 so it appears I did at the time/or still do have a RT3 issue....
I assume you are on a T3 only treatment to clear out the RT3.. How is that going for you at the moment?
At this moment for me the high E2 is compounding things and killing me.... all the symptoms I listed in the beginning of this thread is real and killing me... smdh

 

[1Draw]

Back in 2010, I did have a RT3 test done... it came back at 23 and my calculated ratio was 15.8 so it appears I did at the time/or still do have a RT3 issue....
I assume you are on a T3 only treatment to clear out the RT3.. How is that going for you at the moment?
At this moment for me the high E2 is compounding things and killing me.... all the symptoms I listed in the beginning of this thread is real and killing me... smdh

Yes Doc put me on T3 medication only - Liothyronine 5mcg 2x day. My Free T3 was 3.6 with Reverse T3 at 28.1 and the ratio was 12.8. Ratio needs to be greater than 20.

Think you definitely need to have this looked at by a DR who knows how to treat high T3. Dr. Childs recommends T3 meds only - Liothyronine or cytomel. ND Thyroid may do the job but, could take longer.