trouble adjusting dosages

[Jntsrgn]

I have been on TRT for 3 years and the last year has been a struggle with symptoms and managing them through my dosing. I spent the first year on pellets then converted to T Cyp inj of 60mg and HCG 500IU MWF. Also take Armour thyroid 60mg QD. Cruised along well for the second year with no adjustments or issues. Out of nowhere developed erection issues refractory to Cialis and a lot of severe aches and pains with low energy and crushing headaches. Labs showed sky high T and E2. I have no explanation for why my levels jumped after being on the same protocol for over a year without issue. I had always run around 1600 T and E2 50's before on this dosing. Wanting to avoid Anastrazole I dropped my T Cyp to 40mg and kept HCG at 500IU still MWF. T and free T came down but E2 still over 100 and still felt awful. I then lowered dosing to T 40 and HCG 250 MWF. Labs didn't change at all and still feeling awful.

I have now kept my T Cyp at 40mg MWF and now do HCG 250IU on Mondays only thinking the E2 might be from the HCG. Also added Anastrazole 0.5mg on Mon and Friday. Two weeks of this protocol and starting to feel a little better. Erections waking up and pain better but not gone. Sleeping a little better and dreams returning.

I do not want to be on Anastrazole long term and I'm trying to figure out how to get my dosing correct to control E2 so I can stop it. I was really surprised that cutting the HCG in half had no effect on my numbers. I'm not sure about that single dose of HCG weekly either but getting .1ml accurately isn't easy if I divided the dose MWF.

The only reason I use HCG is to prevent testicle shrinkage which was painful and cosmetically unpleasant during my first year on pellets. Response was dramatic with complete recovery of size. I guess I need to find the minimum dose to maintain the effect.

I'm posting 3 sets of labs. First on my initial dosing, the second set after lowering T to 40mg and keeping HCG at 500 and the third at T 40 and HCG 250. I am really surprised that the third lab set didn't budge after cutting HCG in half. All labs taken on Monday at the same time of day. Same lab. I will get labs in February after a few months of the new second time lowered dosing plus Anastrazole. I'm not going to obsess over a T number if I can get get E2 steady under 50 without Anastrazole. I can certainly cut the T Cyp further if necessary.

Still a mystery why I had the sudden dramatic rise of T, free T and E2 without any change in protocol after a year.

 

[madman]

I have been on TRT for 3 years and the last year has been a struggle with symptoms and managing them through my dosing. I spent the first year on pellets then converted to T Cyp inj of 60mg and HCG 500IU MWF. Also take Armour thyroid 60mg QD. Cruised along well for the second year with no adjustments or issues. Out of nowhere developed erection issues refractory to Cialis and a lot of severe aches and pains with low energy and crushing headaches. Labs showed sky high T and E2. I have no explanation for why my levels jumped after being on the same protocol for over a year without issue. I had always run around 1600 T and E2 50's before on this dosing. Wanting to avoid Anastrazole I dropped my T Cyp to 40mg and kept HCG at 500IU still MWF. T and free T came down but E2 still over 100 and still felt awful. I then lowered dosing to T 40 and HCG 250 MWF. Labs didn't change at all and still feeling awful.

I have now kept my T Cyp at 40mg MWF and now do HCG 250IU on Mondays only thinking the E2 might be from the HCG. Also added Anastrazole 0.5mg on Mon and Friday. Two weeks of this protocol and starting to feel a little better. Erections waking up and pain better but not gone. Sleeping a little better and dreams returning.

I do not want to be on Anastrazole long term and I'm trying to figure out how to get my dosing correct to control E2 so I can stop it. I was really surprised that cutting the HCG in half had no effect on my numbers. I'm not sure about that single dose of HCG weekly either but getting .1ml accurately isn't easy if I divided the dose MWF.

The only reason I use HCG is to prevent testicle shrinkage which was painful and cosmetically unpleasant during my first year on pellets. Response was dramatic with complete recovery of size. I guess I need to find the minimum dose to maintain the effect.

I'm posting 3 sets of labs. First on my initial dosing, the second set after lowering T to 40mg and keeping HCG at 500 and the third at T 40 and HCG 250. I am really surprised that the third lab set didn't budge after cutting HCG in half. All labs taken on Monday at the same time of day. Same lab. I will get labs in February after a few months of the new second time lowered dosing plus Anastrazole. I'm not going to obsess over a T number if I can get get E2 steady under 50 without Anastrazole. I can certainly cut the T Cyp further if necessary.

Still a mystery why I had the sudden dramatic rise of T, free T and E2 without any change in protocol after a year.

No surprise here as 180mg/week T split (60 mg M/W/F) is a whopping dose of T which had your trough TT/FT/e2 levels sky-high let alone most would be battling elevated RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit.

Your SHBG is only 37 nmol/L and you were hitting a very high trough TT 1327 ng/dL but more importantly a very high FT 44 ng/dL.

Some men may do well running higher TT/FT levels but many will also end up struggling on such protocols.

Even after lowering your dose 120 mg/week (40 mg M/W/F) your trough TT 1600 ng/dL is absurdly high let alone FT and e2 mind you although your FT is high it should be higher than your lab's state as no only is your TT 1600 ng/dL higher than previous labs on higher dosed protocol 180 mg/week (60 mg M/W/F) but your SHBG also came down some from 37 nmol/L (previous labs) and now sitting at 33 nmol/L yet your labs state that your FT is lower than your FT on previous labs (higher dosed protocol) where TT was lower and SHBG slightly higher.

Although your Albumin went from 4.2 g/dL (previous labs) and is now slightly higher 4.4 g/d it would not have any significant impact on your FT level.

Have you lost any body fat (10-20 lbs) over the past year as this can have a big impact on your TT/FT/e2 levels even when following a consistent protocol (dose T/injection frequency)?

I have seen a big change in my TT/FT/e2 levels after shedding body fat when following my regular protocol of 150 mg T split (75 mg every 3.5 days) and had to lower my dose over time to 120 mg ( 60 mg every 3.5 days) and more recently I am down to 100 mg/week (50 mg every 3.5 days) and my TT/FT levels hover around the same level I was attaining on my original 150 mg/week protocol and to top it off my e2 was almost cut in half!

You need to look into lowering your dose further as you can clearly see from your most recent labs that not only is your trough TT 1600 ng/dL absurdly high but more importantly your FT is still high and should very well be higher as I stated above and I would bet if you retested again it would be higher.

Top it all of that your e2 is sky-high and your hemoglobin/hematocrit is elevated.

I think it was a bad move jumping on the AI as you have room to easily bring down your TT/FT level which will also drop your e2.

Overall you have been running a horrible protocol which had your trough TT/FT/e2 level sky-high let alone elevated hemoglobin/hematocrit and as you stated still feeling awful overall.

 

[madman]

You would need to inject hCG more frequently than once weekly to reap the overall beneficial effects.

If your sole purpose of using it is for the prevention/maintenance of testicular atrophy then you could most likely get away with injecting 1500 IU.

To be honest it would be more sensible to use lower doses injected more frequently.



post#14

Trying HCG once more - dosage and advice?

I've done poorly the last couple times I tried HCG, but my girlfriend and doctor and I decided to give it one more shot to help preserve fertility in the coming years. Plus, this is the first year that I've learned to leave my T cyp dose alone, and have really positive/consistent results. I...

www.excelmale.com

How does 125IU of HCG ED affect hormones production while on TRT?

I have read the two case studies presented by Dr. Saya on HCG 150IU and 500IU, I understand how the two differ in terms of peak, and half life levels in the blood. Do we have any data, perhaps anecdotal, of what can we expect in regards to Testosterone, Estrogen and Pregnenolone production...

www.excelmale.com

hCG half life

Whats the half life of hCG ? is the half life different if administered sq versus im? is there a graph where I am able to see the cycle period of hCG if administered EOD? I am trying to time it with test cyp so that there is the least overlap, as the HCG gives me anxiety for 12-16 hours and also...

www.excelmale.com

Pros and cons of using TRT vs HCG for treatment low-t symptoms

Human chorionic gonadotropin treatment: a viable option for management of secondary hypogonadism and male infertility (2020) Julius Fink, Brad J. Schoenfeld, Anthony C. Hackney, Takahiro Maekawa & Shigeo Horie Abstract Introduction: Low testosterone and its symptoms is a condition affecting...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Jntsrgn]

No surprise here as 180mg/week T split (60 mg M/W/F) is a whopping dose of T which had your trough TT/FT/e2 levels sky-high let alone most would be battling elevated RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit.

Your SHBG is only 37 nmol/L and you were hitting a very high trough TT 1327 ng/dL but more importantly a very high FT 44 ng/dL.

Some men may do well running higher TT/FT levels but many will also end up struggling on such protocols.

Even after lowering your dose 120 mg/week (40 mg M/W/F) your trough TT 1600 ng/dL is absurdly high let alone FT and e2 mind you although your FT is high it should be higher than your lab's state as no only is your TT 1600 ng/dL higher than previous labs on higher dosed protocol 180 mg/week (60 mg M/W/F) but your SHBG also came down some from 37 nmol/L (previous labs) and now sitting at 33 nmol/L yet your labs state that your FT is lower than your FT on previous labs (higher dosed protocol) where TT was lower and SHBG slightly higher.

Although your Albumin went from 4.2 g/dL (previous labs) and is now slightly higher 4.4 g/d it would not have any significant impact on your FT level.

Have you lost any body fat (10-20 lbs) over the past year as this can have a big impact on your TT/FT/e2 levels even when following a consistent protocol (dose T/injection frequency)?

I have seen a big change in my TT/FT/e2 levels after shedding body fat when following my regular protocol of 150 mg T split (75 mg every 3.5 days) and had to lower my dose over time to 120 mg ( 60 mg every 3.5 days) and more recently I am down to 100 mg/week (50 mg every 3.5 days) and my TT/FT levels hover around the same level I was attaining on my original 150 mg/week protocol and to top it off my e2 was almost cut in half!

You need to look into lowering your dose further as you can clearly see from your most recent labs that not only is your trough TT 1600 ng/dL absurdly high but more importantly your FT is still high and should very well be higher as I stated above and I would bet if you retested again it would be higher.

Top it all of that your e2 is sky-high and your hemoglobin/hematocrit is elevated.

I think it was a bad move jumping on the AI as you have room to easily bring down your TT/FT level which will also drop your e2.

Overall you have been running a horrible protocol which had your trough TT/FT/e2 level sky-high let alone elevated hemoglobin/hematocrit and as you stated still feeling awful overall.

I have been a steady 175 lbs and 4% body fat for a decade. No weight or body composition changes. I had to start some Anastrozole just to ease the misery. I'll need to gradually further lower the T dose. I was perfect for over a year and feeling great on the original protocol of T at 180 and HCG 500 MWF. I have no explanation for the sudden rise in lab values and terrible symptoms. Either way, need to get doses adjusted so I can avoid Anastrazole and feel human again.

 

[Vince]

Madman give you some excellent advice. My two cents is, lower your dose. Inject twice a week. 50 MG of testosterone cypionate and 500 IU of hCG. No AI. Inject both on the same day. Have labs in three months.