These Mice Stopped Eating Carbs So You (Maybe) Don't Have To

[Vince]

In the ever-more masochistic world of wellness-boosting, pound-shedding diets, the latest trend involves putting your body into a controlled state of starvation known as “ketogenesis,” by cutting out nearly all carbs. If that doesn’t sound like your particular brand of torture, guess what? You’re already on it. Well, at least while you’re sleeping.Two independent studies published Tuesday in the journal Cell Metabolism raise hopes that ketogenic diets, if followed full-time, do more than just slim waists. They also appear to improve the odds of living longer and remembering better … if you’re a mouse. The same effects have yet to be proven in humans, and plans for that are in the works. But in the meantime, self-experimenting biohackers (i.e. dieters) are collecting anecdotal evidence all around the world.
https://www.wired.com/story/ketogen...er-and-protect-their-brain-power-as-they-age/

 

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

Seeing as how ketogenic diets were originally used to control seizures in patients with epilepsy, I seriously doubt they would have any ergogenic benefits for humans. They found that putting the body in ketosis lowered brain activity so much that it actually prevented seizures. Not to mention, the longest living cultures in the world all subsist on starch-based diets. The Inuit diet was the closest thing to a ketogenic diet and they had terrible longevity. They were also one of the only non-first world cultures to regularly develop atherosclerosis.

 

[SoCal Guy]

Seeing as how ketogenic diets were originally used to control seizures in patients with epilepsy, I seriously doubt they would have any ergogenic benefits for humans. They found that putting the body in ketosis lowered brain activity so much that it actually prevented seizures. Not to mention, the longest living cultures in the world all subsist on starch-based diets. The Inuit diet was the closest thing to a ketogenic diet and they had terrible longevity. They were also one of the only non-first world cultures to regularly develop atherosclerosis.

Citations for these assertions?

 

[madman]

Genetics plays a critical role in how one responds to carbohydrates and especially insulin sensitivity. Sure there are benefits to low carb for many but it is not a given for the population as a whole. I have eaten 500 grams of carbs/day (complex sources) along with lean animal based proteins/healthy fats for years and am lean/strong and yearly blood labs come back good! I have tried low carb and it does me no good much weaker/lethargic/poorer recovery/less muscle mass and feel flat due to low glycogen stores. My body type functions best with higher carbs from natural whole food sources.

 

[codus2112]

Interestingly enough, one of the few people I subscribe to on youtube is a German rock climber who eats 80-90 percent carbohydrates and is absolutely ripped. Granted hes still relatively young and active and his carbs are not "garbage" carbohydrates. Ultra low carb is interesting to me and I wish I could get there but I know how my body functions and i just need more than 30-50 grams. Plus i love bananas and mangos way too much! Cheers

 

[Vince]

Banana
1 large (140g)
Sugars, total: 17g
Calories, total: 125
Calories from sugar: 68

 

[Vince]

Your brain is the fattest organ in your body and may consist of at least 60 percent fat.

 

[SoCal Guy]

Banana
1 large (140g)
Sugars, total: 17g
Calories, total: 125
Calories from sugar: 68

there is also a fair amount of starch in a banana, which the body will convert into additional sugars during digestion.

Basically, all non-fiber carbs become sugar (glucose) in the body, while fructose is handled directly by the liver (often becoming liver fat, particularly when choline is insufficient ...no bueno.) But a high-sugar diet is usually fine for young people (although even the young are beginning to have obesity issues) and athletes. But a lot of others will have difficulty with that diet, especially if they're older. A 90% carb diet is a low-protein diet by definition -- catastrophic for an 80 year old hoping to postpone the wheelchair.

And, after acclimating away from a carbohydrate metabolism, athletes may perform even better without carbs. That's why Shawn Baker is now consistently setting rowing records (after underperforming for several months as his body transitioned to a fat-based metabolism.)

So, yeah, the transitions aren't easy, nor quick – and this often causes people to conclude that carbs are necessary for performance. But they're not really going through the trough of the transition to reach the post-carb milieu that improves mitochondrial activity.

 

[Vince]

Performance athletes considering switching from low fat high carb to a low carb.
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...witching-from-low-fat-high-carb-to-a-low-carb

 

[JakeH]

And, after acclimating away from a carbohydrate metabolism, athletes may perform even better without carbs. That's why Shawn Baker is now consistently setting rowing records (after underperforming for several months as his body transitioned to a fat-based metabolism.)

So, yeah, the transitions aren't easy, nor quick – and this often causes people to conclude that carbs are necessary for performance. But they're not really going through the trough of the transition to reach the post-carb milieu that improves mitochondrial activity.

Do you know Shawn Baker? You have used him as a poster child for your pro-keto diet stance in multiple threads. I ask because I follow him on Insta and his carnivore project. Keep in mind he is setting records in the 100m, 1 minute and 500M rows, not the true endurance events. His are very much power based events, of which he produces a ton on the rowing machine. Also, the fastest 500m record holder, Sam Loch, eats carbs. Rob Waddell, another olympian and record holder at 1000 & 2000 meters, eats carbs. So, does that mean carbs are good?

I think using the German rock climber's 90% carbs and Shawn's 100% meat example are both arguing from the extremes and problematic for the majority of the population.

Also, performance and being ripped do not equal optimal health, though they can be signs of optimal health, depending on one's definition.

 

[SoCal Guy]

I don't know him; I just follow him. Some people follow vegans like Rich Roll, diets like thirty bananas a day etc. Good for them.

And I'm not a candidate for being an endurance or power athlete of any kind. But it seems interesting that he's getting the best results of his life at 50 on such an atypical diet.

I'm also not a big fan of the "everything in moderation" appeal. (It's curious to see that argument on a TRT forum.) Everyone seems to assume moderation is the logical path. It might be, but I don't buy it. I don't think we are likely to know the answer in our lifetimes. Especially since the extreme markup possible on branded carbohydrate-based foods from farm to Oreo means there will always be insane media and governmental pressure towards carbs. The authorities talk veggies to provide air cover, but the businesses sell bread, Capn Crunch, ice cream, cola and fries. We are all swimming in that propaganda, though we may believe that, unlike everyone else, we are the perceptive and discerning ones. But in such an environment, I'm not so sure we can perceive "moderation", much less truth.

So, though I'm not participating, I'm glad the guy has organized a rough, crowdsourced group experiment testing such an immoderate diet. Because while the powers that be fund ve*an diet studies endlessly, testing meat-only would be a career-ender in a world where everyone from First Ladies down are forcing carb (excuse me, "vegetable") diets hard.

I also find people's experiences in carnivore FB groups like zeroing in on health interesting. Lots of people are getting fantastic results with zero carb.

But Baker has been willing to go more public than others.

Often things don't change until there's at least one person who DGAF.