Testosterone Side Effects after one year.

[Gibbon]

Hello,

I haven't posted here I don't think but last week I started having horrible insomnia after about one year of test cyp at around 80 mg/wk with a few adjustments. I inject eveyr other day. I did notice a few months ago more aggression, irritability, combativness, being sorta hypersexual, headaches which I am not prone to, odd muscle feelings, impulsive, anxious (which I haven't had at all for months and months), and sorta numb at times, and waking up early but until last week I was getting back to sleep. I felt I was ruminating more and more over the past few months when waking up and sorta reved up.

My bloods in the August had a a total of about 600 on a scale with a max close to 900 and a free of 188 out of 241, estradiol below 20. I was surprised as my free seems to be climing from my first 6 months of treatment.

I haven't gotten all of my labs back from last week (taken before my shot (trough) but my estrodial is at 28 (max of 48). I don't function well at high numbers and I was once at a free of 210 out of 240 and that was not good for me.

I was on cream and did awesome at a free of 150 but unfortunately I stopped abosrbing and I have never done scrotal application just shoulder and such. I ended up dropping back down to my orginal numbers like I was taking nothing.

My questions are this as I am looking for thoughts and advice:

1. It is possible for 80 mg/wk to be too high?
2. Thoughts on where to do from here? Reduce to what?
3. Go to every day shots? I can't take big flucuations.

Any thoughts and advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. I respect this forum as it has been a great read and althought I love to work out I just want to feel better and sleep better.

 

[BigTex]

Might try going 40mg twice a week sub-q

 

[Systemlord]

I strongly believe every man that starts TRT should have their ferritin levels checked 6-12 months after initiating therapy, because TRT can cause some men to burn through iron stores faster.

I had the same problems and a lot of the symptoms you are experiencing right now was the result of low ferritin/iron. I also couldn’t handle a high Free T level because of the low ferritin/iron, and after correcting my iron deficiency, and now I can handle very high Free T levels without issue.

Check ferritin and iron saturation.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

i highly doubt that T has anything to do with your issues. if anything 80mg is too low.
maybe try a different ester. also the daily fluctuation is another myth. every guy naturally fluctuates a lot. maybe you actually want daily fluctuations, like you will get from Tprop or cream

 

[Gibbon]

Might try going 40mg twice a week sub-q

How would that help me? I seem to have a problem with high levels and wouldn't that increase that and increase estrodial? Thank you.

 

[Gibbon]

i highly doubt that T has anything to do with your issues. if anything 80mg is too low.
maybe try a different ester. also the daily fluctuation is another myth. every guy naturally fluctuates a lot. maybe you actually want daily fluctuations, like you will get from Tprop or cream

My levels seem fine and higher than when I started so isn't the dose potentially the issue? I can't tell you how frustrating this is for me being ok for a decent amount of time. I will bring up t prop or cream and see what Defy says. thank you.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

My levels seem fine and higher than when I started so isn't the dose potentially the issue? I can't tell you how frustrating this is for me being ok for a decent amount of time. I will bring up t prop or cream and see what Defy says. thank you.

i personally had huge improvements in going daily Tprop. day and night difference to Tcyp. my dose is rather high at 30mg/day, but this is were i feel best. at 20mg/ i am just sluggish as fuck

 

[BigTex]

How would that help me? I seem to have a problem with high levels and wouldn't that increase that and increase estrodial? Thank you.

You said you are injecting "1. It is possible for 80 mg/wk to be too high."

If you do smaller more frequent injections the peaks and toughs are much lower thus in most cases, so are the side effects. E2 should not rise because the total weekly dosing is the same. So instead of doing 80 in 7days you ae going 40mg twice a week. If you think the T levels are just too high for you reduce it to 30-35mg/x2. Its much easier to start out low and slowly work your way up with dose until you find that sweet spot.
See the graph below.....blue is 1 x 7days, the red is 2x/wk. You are see the distance between peaks and troughs are much dramatic in the red. This means you just cut down the size of the rollercoaster ride you are on. Both are the same dose weekly. This is described as micro-dosing.

my estrodial is at 28 (max of 48)." -

IMHO, this is way too low.

Go to every day shots? I can't take big flucuations.

Exactly why I suggest go from 1 injection/wk to two/wk (ore even more).

Microdosing TRT – The Future of Testosterone Replacement Therapy - The Men's Health Clinic

Microdosing is the most effective way to mimic natural Testosterone levels and minimise side effects. We explain why in this article.

themenshealthclinic.co.uk

 

[sammmy]

You could drop to 50-60 mg/week and see if that improves the sides. Remember when you measure your T at trough before the next shot, your T can be lower than the middle of the normal range because it is your lowest level, not your average.

 

[Gibbon]

Thank you all so much. I must apologize as I meant I had 3 questions so the 1 was for the questions. I actually inject EOD and doing that at 80 mg/ wk. So with that at trough I am at 189 ish for free. So at peak I am probably over 200. I was suprised to find my total didn't move much but my free did about 40 points so maybe that is causing side effects. I can deal with side effects except the sleep issues. Like I had mentioned I functioned well at 150 on cream and very poorly once my free was 210 ish. I may consider daily or daily with T prop? I often wondered why EOD or every day people don't seem to use T prop. Seems like that would be more natural.

When I had started I had a doctor that did one huge shot a month at 300 mg and only had a very short window where I felt good. Start was terrible and well, the end of the month just as bad.

 

[Systemlord]

I seem to have a problem with high levels and wouldn't that increase that and increase estrodial?

Maybe, maybe not. I would just stick with IM and lower the dosage 10-20 mg.

 

[BigTex]

Thank you all so much. I must apologize as I meant I had 3 questions so the 1 was for the questions. I actually inject EOD and doing that at 80 mg/ wk. So with that at trough I am at 189 ish for free. So at peak I am probably over 200. I was suprised to find my total didn't move much but my free did about 40 points so maybe that is causing side effects. I can deal with side effects except the sleep issues. Like I had mentioned I functioned well at 150 on cream and very poorly once my free was 210 ish. I may consider daily or daily with T prop? I often wondered why EOD or every day people don't seem to use T prop. Seems like that would be more natural.

When I had started I had a doctor that did one huge shot a month at 300 mg and only had a very short window where I felt good. Start was terrible and well, the end of the month just as bad.

Sounds like you need to drop the dose you are taking EOD then. I will tell you this much about test prop. The short esters have much more PIP than the longer esters. I remember the last time I did test prop In used a short needle and injected into the quad and I could hardly walk the next day. This was pharma test prop too. Not sure what it is like going sub-q with test prop though. Most of the time with any drug, the higher the dose the more unwanted side effects you will have. I would drop down to 50mg/wk (ttl) and give it about 3 weeks and see how you feel. IMHO, at this point your numbers mean nothing, how you feel is much more important.

 

[Systemlord]

i personally had huge improvements in going daily Tprop. day and night difference to Tcyp.

I wonder how I would’ve responded to test prop, considering I do very well on short acting esters.

 

[Vince]

Personally, I don't think you're testosterone levels have anything to do with your sleep issues. At times we all go through sleep difficulties. When I can't sleep. I just say I'll sleep tomorrow night.

Make sure you continue working out and work hard at your job. You sleep issues will subside and you'll be fine.

Can Insomnia Go Away on Its Own?

A doctor explains the difference between sleep problems that can resolve on their own (with a lifestyle tweak or two) and those that need a doctor’s help

www.everydayhealth.com

 

[Vince]

Search results for query: Sleep

www.excelmale.com

 

[Gibbon]

Thank you. I just assumed after seeing other sites that my dose seems low but it isn't the dose you take but what levels you end up with and what one can tolerate or actually does the job without horrible side effects. This is the only site I have found that I have seen some people at half of what I currently take. I don't know how much actually mg of test are in a dose of a 10 mg but since I never had normal levels due to secondary hypogonadism

Personally, I don't think you're testosterone levels have anything to do with your sleep issues. At times we all go through sleep difficulties. When I can't sleep. I just say I'll sleep tomorrow night.

Make sure you continue working out and work hard at your job. You sleep issues will subside and you'll be fine.

Can Insomnia Go Away on Its Own?

A doctor explains the difference between sleep problems that can resolve on their own (with a lifestyle tweak or two) and those that need a doctor’s help

www.everydayhealth.com

Thank you Vince. I believe I found an old thread where you mentioned low SHBG guys should have lower Estrodial. I was just wondering since mine came back at 28 and it has always been under 20. Not sure I understand the rationale for that. Thank you.

 

[BigTex]

Personally, I don't think you're testosterone levels have anything to do with your sleep issues. At times we all go through sleep difficulties. When I can't sleep. I just say I'll sleep tomorrow night.

Make sure you continue working out and work hard at your job. You sleep issues will subside and you'll be fine.

Can Insomnia Go Away on Its Own?

A doctor explains the difference between sleep problems that can resolve on their own (with a lifestyle tweak or two) and those that need a doctor’s help

www.everydayhealth.com

AMEN! I normally wake up 7-8 times a night, when I have unsettled issues at work or in life, this is when they hit me like a rock. All of the sudden I am solving these issues in bed and can't go back to sleep. Big deals over nothing. Usually I just get up and like you do Vince, sleep another day.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

i mentioned this somewhere, but when stress gets too high for me, my sleep starts to suck. when on vacation or in my WI cabin, i can literally do anything, inject insane amounts of T, smoke nicotine, drink 10 coffees and do all the bad shit for sleep and still sleep great. when day to day routine, i get insomnia from stress and then start to wonder if I had my coffee too late in the day type of stuff.
and work stress can be hard to come down from and can take even days to resolve after the stressor is gone

 

[Sergel]

Well if that is any comfort 80mg/week is high for me! ... I started my journey at 140mg/week... 6 years ago... and felt like superman the first 6 months... but was a mess ever after. I was chasing this high and went to higher doses until I finally listened to my doc and starting getting lower... lol

I am now at 56mg/week and never felt better. I also use hcg at 500iu twice a week... I encourage you to experiment... skip a dose ant then lower it by 10 mg... for 6 weeks and see how you feel... Then lower it again... as a test... until you figure out where you sit best. You have to be your own advocate and there is soo much variability from person to person. My SHBG has significantly lowered in time... and I think many long term exogenous T users see this too. So in time my free T has gone up, making me more sensitive to T dose...

Since my dose lowering experiences, my sleep has improved significantly... especially deep sleep. My sex life is better, better erections...

I haven't done blood with my new dose but I am pretty much sure I am physiological now while having been supra for quite a long time...

All in all, I encourage you to experiment and journal your progress... be your own scientist...

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

Sounds like you need to drop the dose you are taking EOD then. I will tell you this much about test prop. The short esters have much more PIP than the longer esters. I remember the last time I did test prop In used a short needle and injected into the quad and I could hardly walk the next day. This was pharma test prop too. Not sure what it is like going sub-q with test prop though. Most of the time with any drug, the higher the dose the more unwanted side effects you will have. I would drop down to 50mg/wk (ttl) and give it about 3 weeks and see how you feel. IMHO, at this point your numbers mean nothing, how you feel is much more important.

I ran out of test E a week ago and used an old vial of Empower test P until I see my urologist next week. Injected 50 mg in the glute. Ended up with a nice lumpt, accompanied by significant PIP for 4 days. Sitting and sleeping were miserable. My history with rx test P has never been good. I don't know if it's the ester or preservatives(benzyl alcohol & benzyl benzoate). Looking forward to my test E rx.