Testosterone Propionate Side Effects

[WhatSayYou89]

Aside from just regular test side effects in general. I’m more speaking of test prop vs the longer esthers. Here are the things I’ve read that make prop different than cyp/eth in terms of sides.

• Spikes DHT more then other esthers
• Spikes E2 more then other esthers
• Lowers E2 more then other esthers

There was more but I got hella brain fog right now.

For those who have been on a longer esther and prop. What have you noticed?

 

[S1W]

@DS3

 

[Cataceous]

It depends on how you interpret these things. In general, average levels of all the hormones—as measured by areas under the curves—are going to be directly proportional to the testosterone dose, which can be independent of the ester you use if you account for the ester's weight. For example, injecting 100 mg of testosterone cypionate once a week would be matched by taking 12 mg of testosterone propionate daily; both give about 70 mg of testosterone per week. Average serum testosterone, estradiol and DHT should be the same.

However, the pharmacokinetics of different esters can be quite different. Cypionate has a half-life of 5 days, whereas propionate's is more like 0.8 days. Using the same injection cycle, the shorter ester gives higher peaks and lower troughs in the serum hormone levels, and could be said to be "spiking" hormones more than the longer ester, even though average levels are the same.

I had a pretty dramatic illustration of these differences when last year I switched from EOD enanthate to daily propionate. On enanthate serum testosterone was pretty steady at just under 800 ng/dL. On propionate with about the same average testosterone content I was seeing trough measurements around 300-500 ng/dL. I was also experiencing pretty dramatic hair shedding. I eventually realized that my daily peak testosterone was peaking at well over 1,000 ng/dL, presumably with similar effects on estradiol and DHT. I made adjustments to push peak testosterone down to 800 ng/dL and the problems stopped.

 

[DS3]

I am pasting this from another conversation I was having.

For me, I like Prop over longer esters for the following reasons:

1. Estrogen management is significantly better (for me) with Prop than longer esters. I still have to take 0.25 mg anastrozole 1x per week, but the subjective symptoms of high estrogen are vastly improved. Though I do not have clinical evidence that E2 is lower on Prop vs longer esters, my experience has indicated that it may, coupled with the fact that estrogen follows T levels in TRT. So, as your T levels are likely to fluctuate on Propionate (even with daily shots), your estrogen will go down along with T levels. The benefit is that some of the subjective symptoms of high estrogen may be due to estrogen being held too high for too long.

2. Water retention is much less with Prop (one of the key reasons that BBs use it precontest over longer esters)

3. Mental well-being is greatly enhanced over longer esters. My mood and attitude are simply much better on Prop.

4. I experience stomach issues with longer esters (i.e. bloating and irritable bowel symptoms). I do not have these symptoms with Propionate.

5. For me, it is significantly easier to dial my protocol in. I am the kind of guy who does not do well on a regimen where i take the same amount of T on a regular basis. Most days I like to take 30 mg of Prop daily, but there are some days where I feel my test is too high and I simply drop it back to 25 mg of Prop and feel the positive effects of slightly lowered T in the same day. So with Prop, the beauty is you can adapt your protocol on a day-to-day basis.

6. Daily prop shots allow for greater T fluctuations than ED or EOD cyp shots, which I enjoy. Controversial to most opinions, i feel best when i take a dosage of T that brings my levels to supraphysiological range (~1200 ng/dL), then allow my levels to come to physiological range again. With Prop, I can accomplish this every single day without my T remaining in a supraphysiological state for too long. So, i get the physical benefits of getting my T into a supraphysiological range close to my workout, but reduce side effects by allowing it to not remain in that state for too long. By the time my next Prop shot comes around then next day, my T levels have been back in a physiological state for quite some time relative to the supraphysiological state.

 

[WhatSayYou89]

I am pasting this from another conversation I was having.

For me, I like Prop over longer esters for the following reasons:

1. Estrogen management is significantly better (for me) with Prop than longer esters. I still have to take 0.25 mg anastrozole 1x per week, but the subjective symptoms of high estrogen are vastly improved. Though I do not have clinical evidence that E2 is lower on Prop vs longer esters, my experience has indicated that it may, coupled with the fact that estrogen follows T levels in TRT. So, as your T levels are likely to fluctuate on Propionate (even with daily shots), your estrogen will go down along with T levels. The benefit is that some of the subjective symptoms of high estrogen may be due to estrogen being held too high for too long.

2. Water retention is much less with Prop (one of the key reasons that BBs use it precontest over longer esters)

3. Mental well-being is greatly enhanced over longer esters. My mood and attitude are simply much better on Prop.

4. I experience stomach issues with longer esters (i.e. bloating and irritable bowel symptoms). I do not have these symptoms with Propionate.

5. For me, it is significantly easier to dial my protocol in. I am the kind of guy who does not do well on a regimen where i take the same amount of T on a regular basis. Most days I like to take 30 mg of Prop daily, but there are some days where I feel my test is too high and I simply drop it back to 25 mg of Prop and feel the positive effects of slightly lowered T in the same day. So with Prop, the beauty is you can adapt your protocol on a day-to-day basis.

6. Daily prop shots allow for greater T fluctuations than ED or EOD cyp shots, which I enjoy. Controversial to most opinions, i feel best when i take a dosage of T that brings my levels to supraphysiological range (~1200 ng/dL), then allow my levels to come to physiological range again. With Prop, I can accomplish this every single day without my T remaining in a supraphysiological state for too long. So, i get the physical benefits of getting my T into a supraphysiological range close to my workout, but reduce side effects by allowing it to not remain in that state for too long. By the time my next Prop shot comes around then next day, my T levels have been back in a physiological state for quite some time relative to the supraphysiological state.

Thank you for the detailed response.

The most difficult problem I’m having with daily prop is the intense headaches. I’ll inject in the morning and by 2-3pm I have a migraine that won’t go away.

I’ve lowered the dose very low and I’m still getting it. Almost like the quick surge of test is causing it.

I’ve had had my bloodwork come back all over the place on cyp in the past 2 years and never had headaches like this.

 

[DS3]

Thank you for the detailed response.

The most difficult problem I’m having with daily prop is the intense headaches. I’ll inject in the morning and by 2-3pm I have a migraine that won’t go away.

I’ve lowered the dose very low and I’m still getting it. Almost like the quick surge of test is causing it.

I’ve had had my bloodwork come back all over the place on cyp in the past 2 years and never had headaches like this.

And you don't experience these headaches with longer esters?

Have you ever used testosterone troches or cream?

 

[WhatSayYou89]

And you don't experience these headaches with longer esters?

Have you ever used testosterone troches or cream?

I’ve been on cream & I do remember getting headaches with that.

I’m also noticing Very similar side effects between cream and prop.

I get a strong motivation/libido surge and feel great shortly after injection. Then 3-4 hours later I crash hard.

I’d bet anything this has to do with DHT. Now I just need to figure out how to keep DHT in that specific range.

Note after I dropped my prop dosage down the headaches went away.

 

[Willyt]

I am pasting this from another conversation I was having.

For me, I like Prop over longer esters for the following reasons:

1. Estrogen management is significantly better (for me) with Prop than longer esters. I still have to take 0.25 mg anastrozole 1x per week, but the subjective symptoms of high estrogen are vastly improved. Though I do not have clinical evidence that E2 is lower on Prop vs longer esters, my experience has indicated that it may, coupled with the fact that estrogen follows T levels in TRT. So, as your T levels are likely to fluctuate on Propionate (even with daily shots), your estrogen will go down along with T levels. The benefit is that some of the subjective symptoms of high estrogen may be due to estrogen being held too high for too long.

2. Water retention is much less with Prop (one of the key reasons that BBs use it precontest over longer esters)

3. Mental well-being is greatly enhanced over longer esters. My mood and attitude are simply much better on Prop.

4. I experience stomach issues with longer esters (i.e. bloating and irritable bowel symptoms). I do not have these symptoms with Propionate.

5. For me, it is significantly easier to dial my protocol in. I am the kind of guy who does not do well on a regimen where i take the same amount of T on a regular basis. Most days I like to take 30 mg of Prop daily, but there are some days where I feel my test is too high and I simply drop it back to 25 mg of Prop and feel the positive effects of slightly lowered T in the same day. So with Prop, the beauty is you can adapt your protocol on a day-to-day basis.

6. Daily prop shots allow for greater T fluctuations than ED or EOD cyp shots, which I enjoy. Controversial to most opinions, i feel best when i take a dosage of T that brings my levels to supraphysiological range (~1200 ng/dL), then allow my levels to come to physiological range again. With Prop, I can accomplish this every single day without my T remaining in a supraphysiological state for too long. So, i get the physical benefits of getting my T into a supraphysiological range close to my workout, but reduce side effects by allowing it to not remain in that state for too long. By the time my next Prop shot comes around then next day, my T levels have been back in a physiological state for quite some time relative to the supraphysiological state.

@DS3 - Are you still having success with Prop daily protocol? If so, at what dose? Just curious since you seemed to be doing well with it.

 

[DS3]

@DS3 - Are you still having success with Prop daily protocol? If so, at what dose? Just curious since you seemed to be doing well with it.

@Willyt Not any more. I’ve switched to Enanthate back in late October. Masculinization and prostate pain became over bearing. Long story short, I was using too much testosterone and felt knew I needed to cut back down. At that point I decided to switch to a long ester.

I’ve actually had good success with Enanthate, though. Switching over to larger shots less frequently (60 mg every 4 days) has been very successful for me despite having low SHBG.

 

[johnnytai]

@Willyt Not any more. I’ve switched to Enanthate back in late October. Masculinization and prostate pain became over bearing. Long story short, I was using too much testosterone and felt knew I needed to cut back down. At that point I decided to switch to a long ester.

I’ve actually had good success with Enanthate, though. Switching over to larger shots less frequently (60 mg every 4 days) has been very successful for me despite having low SHBG.

Do you still use dht derivatives for estrogen control ?

 

[DS3]

Do you still use dht derivatives for estrogen control ?

No. Negative to that as well. Lowering my dosage has helped a lot with estrogen side effects. However, I do plan to start using low dose progesterone this next week to help balance out estrogen.

 

[Gman86]

No. Negative to that as well. Lowering my dosage has helped a lot with estrogen side effects. However, I do plan to start using low dose progesterone this next week to help balance out estrogen.

What form of progesterone do u plan on taking?

 

[DS3]

What form of progesterone do u plan on taking?

The low dose capsules from Empower. I plan to start with 10 mg nightly.

I will also say that I’ve felt much better using higher doses of HCG and much lower dosages of testosterone. My mental clarity and horsepower feel much better. For me, this begs the question of whether or not LH suppression from TRT plays into any detrimental effects on brain health.

 

[Gman86]

The low dose capsules from Empower. I plan to start with 10 mg nightly.

I will also say that I’ve felt much better using higher doses of HCG and much lower dosages of testosterone. My mental clarity and horsepower feel much better. For me, this begs the question of whether or not LH suppression from TRT plays into any detrimental effects on brain health.

Very interesting. Do u mind quickly sharing ur protocol before and after upping ur HCG dose?

U don’t currently take an ai correct?

 

[DS3]

The low dose capsules from Empower. I plan to start with 10 mg nightly.

I will also say that I’ve felt much better using higher doses of HCG and much lower dosages of testosterone. My mental clarity and horsepower feel much better.

Very interesting. Do u mind quickly sharing ur protocol before and after upping ur HCG dose?

U don’t currently take an ai correct?

Sure thing.

My current protocol:

Testosterone Enanthate- 60 mg E4D
HCG- 500 IU E4D
No Ai
HGH- 1.8 IU nightly

Future addition:
Progesterone- 10 mg nightly

 

[Gman86]

Sure thing.

My current protocol:

Testosterone Enanthate- 60 mg E4D
HCG- 500 IU E4D
No Ai
HGH- 1.8 IU nightly

Future addition:
Progesterone- 10 mg nightly

What was ur protocol before upping ur HCG?

interesting HGH dose. Why 1.8iu’s opposed to just doing 2iu’s? How long u been using HGH? I just started on it less than a week ago at 2iu’s every morning

 

[DS3]

What was ur protocol before upping ur HCG?

interesting HGH dose. Why 1.8iu’s opposed to just doing 2iu’s? How long u been using HGH? I just started on it less than a week ago at 2iu’s every morning

Protocol before upping HCG:

Test Cypionate- 60 mg EOD
HCG- 250 once or twice per week
Ai- 0.125 mg
HGH- 1.8 iu

I have Norditropin pens so my dosing option is in 0.3 iu increments. So I can either take 1.8 iu or 2.1, so for cost effectiveness (primarily) I opt for 1.8.