Testosterone and HCG dosing schedule

[Forty2]

I've read a lot of guys, including Nelson are taking testosterone cypionate or enanthate on the same day as their hCG shot every 3 days.
What is the rationale for this given that they both have very different half lives i. e. about 8 days for testosterone cypionate and enanthate and just 24 - 36hrs for hCG?

 

[Vince]

Here's a nice thread on HCG.

I inject 500 IU twice a week of HCG

What is the best dose of HCG? Dr Saya presents two case studies.

Community - I am sharing and have attached the write-up of a recent small case study I have conducted on quantitative serum beta hCG concentrations relating to hCG injections. This study is limited to dosages of 150iu and 500iu, although I hope to obtain more data in the near future. P.S...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Mcgiver54]

I take HCG twice a week 250iu Monday and Friday, I dose test MWF 50mg each, I started at once an week, moved to twice a week and struggled with back acne the whole time, once I went to 3 times a week the acne disappeared completely, my body seems to be sensitive to variation in my hormones. So through trial and error I ended up at the solution for my dose. So on Monday and Friday I do both, Wednesday is just the test.

 

[BigTex]

I have always used HGC as per Dr. Crisler. But I have a friend that tells me the following,

"HCG looks great on paper but if your TRT for life its a complete waste, you will notice zero difference, been there done that. now if your actually cycling and coming off inbetween cycles HCG works amazingly well taken at a low dose DURING the cycle not after. Again looks great on paper and in medical literature, just another added injection and cost in the real world particularly if your TRT for life."

 

[Forty2]

Thanks, but that didn't answer my question
I'd still like to know why a lot of guys dose testosterone cypionate twice a week if it has an 8 day half life and HCG also twice a week (often on the same day as the testosterone shot) when hCG has a half life of just 24-36hrs? Why isn't the hCG dosed more frequently and the testosterone cypionate dosed less frequently?
Hopefully Nelson or Catacious will know the answer.

 

[Phil Goodman]

Thanks, but that didn't answer my question
I'd still like to know why a lot of guys dose testosterone cypionate twice a week if it has an 8 day half life and HCG also twice a week (often on the same day as the testosterone shot) when hCG has a half life of just 24-36hrs? Why isn't the hCG dosed more frequently and the testosterone cypionate dosed less frequently?
Hopefully Nelson or Catacious will know the answer.

Because large swings in testosterone will affect you a lot more than large swings in testosterone. When your body gets a huge spike in testosterone it goes to work using it, converting to estrogen, converting to DHT, etc. It’s also likely that large swings will be worse for overall health in a lot of people. Because of this, many prefer the smoother ride that more frequent injections provide.

HCG does not operate the same way. It doesn’t impact nearly as many things as test does, and not as drastically. Stimulating your body with it twice/week does the job in the vast majority of people, and many people choose to use the lowest effective dose. You don’t have to constantly stimulate your balls for it to be effective, and you aren’t going to see atrophy over the course of 24 hours or so if the levels in your body drop.

 

[BigTex]

Thanks, but that didn't answer my question
I'd still like to know why a lot of guys dose testosterone cypionate twice a week if it has an 8 day half life and HCG also twice a week (often on the same day as the testosterone shot) when hCG has a half life of just 24-36hrs? Why isn't the hCG dosed more frequently and the testosterone cypionate dosed less frequently?
Hopefully Nelson or Catacious will know the answer.

I prepared a graph for you to give you a visual. The less deep the troughs go from the peaks the better you should feel. So I used:

200mg every 7 days (blue)
100mg twice a week (purple)
28,57 every day (green)
All equal to 200mg 7 days.

The time period used was 5 weeks

The top line is a total of the 3 dosing regiments. As you can see the twice a week has very short peaks and troughs compared to the once a week. The every day has no peaks or troughs is is a pretty steady amount of testosterone in the blood. Depending on the individual, the object to prevent the is the patient to be on a hormonal, and emotional, roller coaster. The HCG at the end of the cycle help prevent the HPTA and from being suppressed as well as depressed LH levels. HCG also boosts serum testosterone levels as we reach the half-life to of the testosterone cypionate again to avoid the hormonal and emotional rollercoaster.

 

[DS3]

I prepared a graph for you to give you a visual. The less deep the troughs go from the peaks the better you should feel. So I used:

200mg every 7 days (blue)
100mg twice a week (purple)
28,57 every day (green)
All equal to 200mg 7 days.

The time period used was 5 weeks

The top line is a total of the 3 dosing regiments. As you can see the twice a week has very short peaks and troughs compared to the once a week. The every day has no peaks or troughs is is a pretty steady amount of testosterone in the blood. Depending on the individual, the object to prevent the is the patient to be on a hormonal, and emotional, roller coaster. The HCG at the end of the cycle help prevent the HPTA and from being suppressed as well as depressed LH levels. HCG also boosts serum testosterone levels as we reach the half-life to of the testosterone cypionate again to avoid the hormonal and emotional rollercoaster.

View attachment 23700

This is cool. One important note, HCG also suppresses the HPTA. It is an LH analog, bypassing the HPTA entirely. It stimulates the testes directly. HCG while on TRT or on cycle can prevent testicular atrophy as well as keep Leydig and Sertoli cells from going dormant. Additionally, HCG acts upon the CNS, helping to stimulate LH receptors in the brain, provides add affective enhancements in many on TRT, and assists in normalizing cognitive function that exogenous testosterone can disrupt.

 

[Forty2]

Thanks guys. Very helpful.
Just another quick question regarding the half life of testosterone cypionate and enanthate. A lot of folks say the two are interchangeable, but I have seen the half life of enanthate listed as 4.5 days and cypionate as 8 days.
Is this correct? If so, is it best to dose enanthate more frequently?
I

 

[BigTex]

You are correct. With TE you will be better off dosing more frequently. TC you can get away with once a week. Of course this depends greatly on the individual.

 

[tareload]

I prepared a graph for you to give you a visual. The less deep the troughs go from the peaks the better you should feel. So I used:

200mg every 7 days (blue)
100mg twice a week (purple)
28,57 every day (green)
All equal to 200mg 7 days.

The time period used was 5 weeks

The top line is a total of the 3 dosing regiments. As you can see the twice a week has very short peaks and troughs compared to the once a week. The every day has no peaks or troughs is is a pretty steady amount of testosterone in the blood. Depending on the individual, the object to prevent the is the patient to be on a hormonal, and emotional, roller coaster. The HCG at the end of the cycle help prevent the HPTA and from being suppressed as well as depressed LH levels. HCG also boosts serum testosterone levels as we reach the half-life to of the testosterone cypionate again to avoid the hormonal and emotional rollercoaster.

View attachment 23700

Nice effort @BigTex . Your students are fortunate to have you based on my observations on here!

 

[BigTex]

Thank you so much Readalot!

 

[BJE]

I have used all sorts of dosing schedules. For quite awhile I dosed both test cyp and HCG daily. I then went to every other day and now I am at every three days for both. Perhaps it would be better to stagger the injections rather than doing them at the same time but I can’t accurately predict when each will peak and I don’t feel anything different whether dosing them the same day or not.

 

[nodoctor]

I’m just lazy and would rather do two things on the same schedule. Also, I believe hCG helps me secrete some other hormones because I notice a libido difference with hCG.

 

[BigTex]

I got a call from my PCP's nurse. He wanted to talk to me about my blood testing which I had seen already. Anyway, I the PCP wanted to prescribe me Anastrozole for the 1st 3 days of my 10 day cycle and do this for 30 days only. He says that should bring my estradiol down. He sent another order to give blood.

I mentioned that I would like to do multi-dosing and the nurse kind of freaked out because he was unfamiliar with it. So he is going to talk with my PCP Monday and give me a call. For some reason, I feel that keeping your dosing schedule to where the peaks and troughs are closer together and less drastic may be beneficial. Whether or not it helps E21 and HCT I will find out in 3 weeks. I am hoping my PCP will allow me to do some experimentation and write orders for blood work when I want it.

@BJE, did you find dosing HCG ED, helped any?

 

[madman]

Thanks guys. Very helpful.
Just another quick question regarding the half life of testosterone cypionate and enanthate. A lot of folks say the two are interchangeable, but I have seen the half life of enanthate listed as 4.5 days and cypionate as 8 days.
Is this correct? If so, is it best to dose enanthate more frequently?
I

Increasing your injection frequency clips the peak--->trough let alone keeps blood levels more stable throughout the week.

TE/TC are basically interchangeable and the half-life of TC is not 8 days.

TE: 7-carbon aliphatic ester side-chain

TC: 8-carbon aliphatic ester side-chain


You can easily get away with injecting TE once weekly.

Would be more concerned with the dose of T you are injecting as you would need to make sure you are still achieving a high enough trough FT come weeks end.

Need to get lab work done to truly see where said protocol (dose T/injection frequency) has your trough TT, FT, and estradiol.

Testosterone Enanthate and Testosterone Cypionate Half-Lives - Data?

Good Morning, When I started I read various things about the half-lives of TCyp and TEnan. 7 days. 10 days. One has a 1 day longer half life because of the longer ester. I am aware that half-lives of all medications vary depending upon the patient. But a good estimate has clinical value for...

www.excelmale.com

I would not fret over whether one uses enanthate vs cypionate as they are basically interchangeable.

Regardless of the minor differences in the esters between the two, there are many other factors that affect the rate at which testosterone is released from the oily depot at the injection site.

Sub-q vs IM, the volume of injection, injection depth, site of injection, lymphatic flow, and the concentration of BOH (benzyl alcohol) is other possible factors that can affect absorption rates of the esterified hormone.

As far as testosterone esters 100 mg of enanthate= 72 mg active testosterone and 100 mg cypionate= 70 mg active testosterone.

If anything I would be far more concerned with your protocol (dose T/injection frequency)/SHBG level and where such has your trough FT levels!

Top it all off that you should be using/relying upon the most accurate assays TT (LC/MS-MS) and FT using the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration (next best).

Confused about Testosterone Enanthate Half Life

Am I confused about Enanthate being a faster acting ester than Cyp? Like in the middle between Prop and Cyp which I had a bad experience with (My daily Testosterone Propionate diary) Seems like I have it stuck in my head with Test-E being more about ~48hrs but I can't seem to find that info...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Forty2]

Increasing your injection frequency clips the peak--->trough let alone keeps blood levels more stable throughout the week.

TE/TC are basically interchangeable and the half-life of TC is not 8 days.

TE: 7-carbon aliphatic ester side-chain

TC: 8-carbon aliphatic ester side-chain


You can easily get away with injecting TE once weekly.

Would be more concerned with the dose of T you are injecting as you would need to make sure you are still achieving a high enough trough FT come weeks end.

Need to get lab work done to truly see where said protocol (dose T/injection frequency) has your trough TT, FT, and estradiol.

Testosterone Enanthate and Testosterone Cypionate Half-Lives - Data?

Good Morning, When I started I read various things about the half-lives of TCyp and TEnan. 7 days. 10 days. One has a 1 day longer half life because of the longer ester. I am aware that half-lives of all medications vary depending upon the patient. But a good estimate has clinical value for...

www.excelmale.com

I would not fret over whether one uses enanthate vs cypionate as they are basically interchangeable.

Regardless of the minor differences in the esters between the two, there are many other factors that affect the rate at which testosterone is released from the oily depot at the injection site.

Sub-q vs IM, the volume of injection, injection depth, site of injection, lymphatic flow, and the concentration of BOH (benzyl alcohol) is other possible factors that can affect absorption rates of the esterified hormone.

As far as testosterone esters 100 mg of enanthate= 72 mg active testosterone and 100 mg cypionate= 70 mg active testosterone.

If anything I would be far more concerned with your protocol (dose T/injection frequency)/SHBG level and where such has your trough FT levels!

Top it all off that you should be using/relying upon the most accurate assays TT (LC/MS-MS) and FT using the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration (next best).

Confused about Testosterone Enanthate Half Life

Am I confused about Enanthate being a faster acting ester than Cyp? Like in the middle between Prop and Cyp which I had a bad experience with (My daily Testosterone Propionate diary) Seems like I have it stuck in my head with Test-E being more about ~48hrs but I can't seem to find that info...

www.excelmale.com

Very helpful, thanks!
Does the oil the testosterone is made with influence it's half life?
Does MCT oil release quickly or slowly from the depot compared with castor oil or grapeseed oil?

 

[Bremster]

I only recently added HcG to my routine, 1/2 ml twice per week. This is 10,000 iu/10ml Biostatic water. I inject 1 ml testosterone weekly. I decided on my own to get a blood test and my T came back 1500. The last test was 984. Who would believe?

 

[BigTex]

Very helpful, thanks!
Does the oil the testosterone is made with influence it's half life?
Does MCT oil release quickly or slowly from the depot compared with castor oil or grapeseed oil?

Absolutely the oil has an influence. I use to have a chart showing the difference but it has to do with viscosity. Castor oil has the most viscosity and is commonly used making testosterone undeconoate.

 

[Johnny Test]

I’m just lazy and would rather do two things on the same schedule. Also, I believe hCG helps me secrete some other hormones because I notice a libido difference with hCG.

So you inject your HCG the same day as your test essentially. Correct?