Still feeling exhausted. Blood work attached.

[dragit94]

Been on trt a year and still feeling exhausted all the time. Here is my latest blood work. Does anything look off? Thank you.

 

[IamNotShepard]

I am no expert but your E2 seems too high. I was feeling not that great when i was having 30-ish estriadol. What is your protocol? Do you also have trouble with erection, libido?

 

[dragit94]

Just switched from .18 testosterone cypionate 3 times a week and 220iu of hcg 3 times a week to .1 cypionate/propionate mix every other day and no hcg. I do have trouble with errections. Not only getting them but maintaining them. They are not very firm either and it’s hard to have an oragism. I had great errections for only 3 weeks. It was amazing. I had never had erections like that ever in my life.

 

[IamNotShepard]

Just switched from .18 testosterone cypionate 3 times a week and 220iu of hcg 3 times a week to .1 cypionate/propionate mix every other day and no hcg. I do have trouble with errections. Not only getting them but maintaining them. They are not very firm either and it’s hard to have an oragism. I had great errections for only 3 weeks. It was amazing. I had never had erections like that ever in my life.

Yeah, i know excacly what you're talking about. My guess would be that your e2 is indeed too high for you. It also depend on person from what i've read. Some guys will feel great having estriadol in 30-s. Some will feel terrible. Since you've just switched your protocol i would stay on it for 6 weeks until your blood levels stabilize. You might have ups and downs until that. If you will not feel better by that time, do another blood work and change your protocol into more frequent injections while also obviously decreasing the dosage you are injecting. Daily injections might work wonders for you. It actually might for most guys (both those with high and low shbg). A user here Vince has mid-high SHBG and daily injections works great for him from what i've read. Also wait for some guys with more knowledge than me to back these words up.

 

[Vince]

Yes daily's work excellent for me.

What do you think about your reverse T3, too high.

 

[dragit94]

To me it seems high and from what I’ve read online iFit seems high but according to my doctor he said my thyroid and adrenals are fine.

 

[Blackhawk]

I am not sure how to interpret some of the numbers against their references. Some references are not shown as a range but single number.

OK so a couple things; Your free T might use a boost. What is your protocol, dosages, type of T (injection gel etc) and dosing frequency. Do you also take HCG an aromatase inhibitor etc?

Edit: you stated .1 T cyp/prop, what does that even mean? I am assuming 0.1 is measurement in ML, but of what concentration? Volume on the syringe means nothing without knowing how many millgrams in that volume.

You are low in Vitamin B12 and Vitamin D3. These things alone can cause you to feel bad and are instrumental in cellular function.

Your RT3 is too high. This implies something going on sub optimal with your thyroid.

Re: what your doctor says, is typical. Most doctors, especially Endocrinologists do not even consider optimal thyroid levels and possible treatment even when patients are symptomatic unless TSH is out of range, which is the least useful lab result to base decisions on. Based on the labs ordered, it looks like your doc may have better insight than many, but???

"normal range" from thyroid labs are not accurately representative of whether your thyroid is actually working well.

Time to start studying my friend...
https://www.restartmed.com/normal-thyroid-levels/
http://www.tiredthyroid.com/
https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/

 

[dragit94]

I am not sure how to interpret some of the numbers against their references. Some references are not shown as a range but single number.

OK so a couple things; Your free T might use a boost. What is your protocol, dosages, type of T (injection gel etc) and dosing frequency. Do you also take HCG an aromatase inhibitor etc?

Edit: you stated .1 T cyp/prop, what does that even mean? I am assuming 0.1 is measurement in ML, but of what concentration? Volume on the syringe means nothing without knowing how many millgrams in that volume.

You are low in Vitamin B12 and Vitamin D3. These things alone can cause you to feel bad and are instrumental in cellular function.

Your RT3 is too high. This implies something going on sub optimal with your thyroid.

Re: what your doctor says, is typical. Most doctors, especially Endocrinologists do not even consider optimal thyroid levels and possible treatment even when patients are symptomatic unless TSH is out of range, which is the least useful lab result to base decisions on. Based on the labs ordered, it looks like your doc may have better insight than many, but???

"normal range" from thyroid labs are not accurately representative of whether your thyroid is actually working well.

Time to start studying my friend...
https://www.restartmed.com/normal-thyroid-levels/
http://www.tiredthyroid.com/
https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/

My new protocol is 0.1 ml of a 160/40 cypionate/propionate mix. My been doctor believe my last protocol was working for my body. I inject every other day sub q. No hcg, no ai. My old protocol was .18 (200mg per ml) every Monday Wednesday and Friday. Along with 220 iu of hcg on the same days. No ai either.

 

[Blackhawk]

OK, thanks. So old protocol in mg: 36mg 3/week, for 108mg/week, pretty reasonable and not bad with your SHBG, but the change to EOD may help. Did you experience any exta down symptoms Sunday-Monday with the extra day between injections?

New protocol in mg: 16mg cyp, 4mg prop EOD, for 56mg cyp, 14mg prop/week.

I don't know the conversion factors for cyp vs prop esters to calculate comparative total doses, (different esters have differing amounts of usable T molecules) but at first glance it looks like dosage is lowered and ever so slightly more frequent. Lowering dose with your labs has me scratching my head... Except perhaps as an attempt to bring down E2. Agree E2 could be contributing to your erection symptoms

 

[madman]

100mg testosterone cypionate minus the ester= 70 mg (approx free equivalent)
100mg testosterone propionate minus the ester= 83 mg (approx free equivalent)

 

[Blackhawk]

100mg testosterone cypionate minus the ester= 70 mg (approx free equivalent)
100mg testosterone propionate minus the ester= 83 mg (approx free equivalent)

Thanks madman,

So for old protocol 108 T cyp/week = 75.6 free

And new at 56mg T cyp = 39.2 free, plus 14mg prop=11.62 free, total= 50.82 free

That is about a third less, a very large drop, to potentially sub therapeutic level. I would expect to feel quite a bit worse at least during the transition. There are some guys who do well/better at doses that low, but reducing dose like that can be nightmarish. Been going through less radical reductions myself, and the adjustment has been awful.

There is a recent thread about dosage reduction. Transitions lowering dosage result in difficulty for many of us: https://www.excelmale.com/forum/thr...ol-sucks-was-right-on-when-does-it-end.15542/