starting HCG monotherapy

[orangemanct]

Hi, I was first diagnosed with low T(approx. 340), when i was 42 yrs okd, in june 2010, the private pay doctor I was seeing determined itwas a low DHEA level. He wanted to put me on T shots then. I had a creapy vibe from him, that he was looking at a cash cow.., he didn't want to address the root cause of the low DHEA count, just wanted to jump right to T replacement.

I wanted the least intervention, so I right or wrong I ditched him and spent 4 years on DHEA supplements from GNC. I did a lot of searching, but there are few long term DHEA studies. it helped for a longtime, i felt better, but my sex drive tapered off again, and there has been alot more research since then.

Fast forwsrd to june 2014, Ive been feeling tired, iritable, and having night sweats again. I decided to have my GP test my T level again and it was at 338 again. He said it is in the normal range. I reminded him thatim 46, i should be above 500 or 600.

So I decided to look for a mens health clinic that takes myninsurance. They wanted to put me on Testopel pellets, too expensive for me right now. I worked with dr and we decided the least invasive method would be to try HCG monotherapy without the DHEA. And see how I do over six weeks.

I just started 1500 imu , 3x week. (M-W-F).

Does anyone have experience with this dosage and freqency?

I've had 3 doses so far, and I nolonger feel gloomy and I have better focus, but this could be a placebo effect. Only odd symptom is that my skin feels extra oily.

Asside from possible increased estradoil (currently 26.7 pg/ml) ( ref range 20 - 75 pg/ml) anything I should look out for?

Thanks!

 

[Bass]

what did your BW show for LH and FSH? if these number especially LH are in good levels then hCG mono therapy won't do much for you. post all your latest BW with ranges so we can see the whole picture and make some suggestions.

 

[orangemanct]

Total T 338 ng/dl (300 -700 ng/dl)
LH 4.1 mIU / ml (1.7 -11.2 mIU /ml)
FSH 8.9 mIU / ml (1.7 -11.2 mIU /ml)
estradoil 26.7 pg/ml) ( 20 - 75 pg/ml)
Prolactin 5.3 ng/ml (3.3 -20.8 ng/ml
TSH 1.1 uiu/ml (0.5 -6.0 uiu/ml
Progesterone 0.3 ng/mL (0.0 -0.6 ng/mL)
SHBG 17 nmol/L (10-50 nmol/L)
Hematocrit 43.6 % (38.5 - 50.0 %)
Free T 1.04 ng/dL (0.95 -4.30 ng/dL

These are my latest numbers..

 

[paco]

Total T 338 ng/dl (300 -700 ng/dl)
LH 4.1 mIU / ml (1.7 -11.2 mIU /ml)
FSH 8.9 mIU / ml (1.7 -11.2 mIU /ml)
estradoil 26.7 pg/ml) ( 20 - 75 pg/ml)
Prolactin 5.3 ng/ml (3.3 -20.8 ng/ml
TSH 1.1 uiu/ml (0.5 -6.0 uiu/ml
Progesterone 0.3 ng/mL (0.0 -0.6 ng/mL)
SHBG 17 nmol/L (10-50 nmol/L)
Hematocrit 43.6 % (38.5 - 50.0 %)
Free T 1.04 ng/dL (0.95 -4.30 ng/dL

These are my latest numbers..

Thanks for sharing your experience with us. I'm sure you will find some good insight here. Were the recent labs taken previous to beginning HCG? If so, you don't appear to be obviously secondary hypogonadal, meaning that you may already be producing sufficient gonadotropins (LH and FSH). If this is the case, HCG is replacing something that doesn't need replacing. (That said, it is very hard to interpret LH, in particular, given that it is secreted as pulses so you may be catching it anywhere in that "wave" at the time of any particular blood draw.)

If instead, you are primary hypogonadal, your doctor would find through subsequent labs (assuming he is knowledgable about appropriate diagnosis and treatment), that your testes are not responding to the LH signal from your pituitary. So, you see there are two forms of hypogonadism, but there are many causes for each form. It's fundamentally important at this point to know which form you are dealing with and to try to determine the cause, so that you can be appropriately treated.

As an aside, Dr. John Crisler's recently published "Low T Book" goes into great detail on this.

Just my two cents off the cuff - It will be interesting to hear what others say about this...

 

[Gene Devine]

A few things:

1. Low DHEA-S levels do not contribute to Secondary Hypogonadism. Unfortunately you were ill advised which led to you living with low Testosterone serum levels longer then you should have.
2. HCG mono-therapy rarely raises Testosterone serum levels to optimal levels in most, not all, men. If it did, most of us would be on HCG mono-therapy and not TRT and that is not the case.
3. You appear, by your blood work, to be age related androgen deficient and the only real cure for that is TRT. LH is not optimal (why your Doc prescribed HCG) and your testes most likely are just slowing down in producing endogenous testosterone...sucks, but that's part and parcel to aging.

You are feeling better with HCG because it acts on the peripheral area of the brain responsible for having a better sense of well being and increased libido so it's probably not a placebo effect.

Stay the course on HCG and get tested in 6 weeks and see where your Testosterone serum levels are. IF they are not in the optimal range than you will know that HCG is not working to the desired effect and Testosterone replacement my be your only course of corrective action.

 

[Bass]

^^^ I agree with GD.

I bet your testosterone will go up slightly, maybe around 500 or so, but from what I have seen these levels fall after a while. what's important is to test your free testosterone as well.

 

[Gene Devine]

^^^ I agree with GD.

I bet your testosterone will go up slightly, maybe around 500 or so, but from what I have seen these levels fall after a while. what's important is to test your free testosterone as well.

Agree Bass, Free and/or Bio Available Testosterone is needed as well.

His E2 and SHBG are lower on the reference range so I would suspect he's fine but it's still an important lab in any analysis.

 

[orangemanct]

Agree Bass, Free and/or Bio Available Testosterone is needed as well.

His E2 and SHBG are lower on the reference range so I would suspect he's fine but it's still an important lab in any analysis.

Thanks guys.. like everyone else, I want to feel better, but im looking for the minimum intervention. It would be great if we could figure out how to reboot the whole process., ok back to reality...

My doc is part of a large mens health practice in boston and he is saying a lot of what I have read on this forum. I just couldnt afford the Testopel. And wanted to try the least invasive approach. it may be only an incremental step. He already ordered the labs for me to take at 5 weeks. And he prepared me that HCG may not give me alot of benifits.

I have 2 daughters ( 8 & 13) and dont want to expose them to the gels or patches.. I guess TRT shots are likely in my future.

My former wife , (yes you can be friends with your ex) seems to think diet/exercise will put everything back to normal., ( she is a fan of dr. Mark hyman) but from what I read that has limits too..
I eat pretty healthy, but dont have a lot of time for the gym.
Ill read more in the diet thread..,

I looked for the Low T book at the library, no luck. Ill search online..

Thanks again,
John

 

[Bass]

I like Dr. Hyman but his take on health is more to prevent health problems not so much healing. I like your approach, you are careful and you should be because TRT is for life, there is no going back, even if you go back you'll only go back to where you were. good luck, and keep us posted.

 

[orangemanct]

Hey guys, I guess the initial effect of T boost from the HCG has kicked in after dose 4. I did my injection at 6:30 am, I got home from work ate a light dinner and had too much energy to sit home at about 8p. Went to the gym and had the best workout ive had in years, normally I would have been asleep on the couch..

I had to remind myself not to push too hard .. recovey at 46 is not as fast.

Damn, . i forgot what this feels like.. I know it wont last forever.but feel great tonight.

 

[kmchotwheelz]

Interesting. Im 37 and was prescribed hcg by my dr yesterday. Test level is 264. I was prescribed 1500ttwice a week. What kind of price are you paying if you don't mind?

 

[Bass]

Hey guys, I guess the initial effect of T boost from the HCG has kicked in after dose 4. I did my injection at 6:30 am, I got home from work ate a light dinner and had too much energy to sit home at about 8p. Went to the gym and had the best workout ive had in years, normally I would have been asleep on the couch..

I had to remind myself not to push too hard .. recovey at 46 is not as fast.

Damn, . i forgot what this feels like.. I know it wont last forever.but feel great tonight.

good for you! remember recovery for this kind of workout will take few days, so when you go to the gym next time you may not perform as good, nut in time as you get stronger you'll do better and better. when is your next follow up BW? post it here and make sure you include free test as well.

 

[Gene Devine]

Hey guys, I guess the initial effect of T boost from the HCG has kicked in after dose 4. I did my injection at 6:30 am, I got home from work ate a light dinner and had too much energy to sit home at about 8p. Went to the gym and had the best workout ive had in years, normally I would have been asleep on the couch..

I had to remind myself not to push too hard .. recovey at 46 is not as fast.

Damn, . i forgot what this feels like.. I know it wont last forever.but feel great tonight.

Probably a neurological response as we know that LH/HCG acts on the peripheral parts of the brain responsible for making us feel good, sense of well being and libido among other things.

It would take weeks if not months for Testosterone serum levels to increase to any acceptable level where you would "feel it".

 

[orangemanct]

Interesting. Im 37 and was prescribed hcg by my dr yesterday. Test level is 264. I was prescribed 1500ttwice a week. What kind of price are you paying if you don't mind?

I paid $87.50 per 10000 unit vial. That is less than half what caremark was going to charge me if i used my prescription drug program..

My doc also handles male fertility and I am using their recommended fertility pharmacy.

 

[orangemanct]

Probably a neurological response as we know that LH/HCG acts on the peripheral parts of the brain responsible for making us feel good, sense of well being and libido among other things.

It would take weeks if not months for Testosterone serum levels to increase to any acceptable level where you would "feel it".

Yeah, I know its too soon for my serum T levels to jump, it's just nice not to be tired and iritable, especially around my kids.,

I have my reminder scheduled for the BW in 4 weeks and my followup dr appt the week after.

Ill post my results when I get them..