Results 24yo

[anabolicfre4k]

Hi all,

I am 24 years old. I do bodybuilding and did general health check few months ago at sports doc but they did not do any hormone checks therefore I decided I will do those separately now. What stroked my attention was the level of testosterone. I would NEVER tell I could be testosterone deficient. I am 5'10", 202lbs and ~10% body-fat. Pretty strong in gym as well.

Truth is I noticed do not have libido as I used to have and my tendons ache at places where it never did. But I have been treated for anxiety and depression since 16 so it's hard to tell what affects my current level of anxiety.

These are results I got:
10-Sep-2018
DHEA............................. 5.05 umol/l
LH................................. 6.34 IU/l
FSH............................... 6.5 IU/l
TST................................ 10.4 nmol/l
Free TST(calculated)........ 0.186 nmol/l
SHBG............................. 36.6 nmol/l
FAI................................ 28.42
Estradiol........................ 29.6 pmol/l

Morning sample at 7 AM

I went with these results to a GP and expressed my concerns about low T. She decided to redo blood tests but this time TST only, Thyroid and Prolactine.

TSH............................... 1.88 mU/l
Free T4.......................... 15.3 pmol/l
TST................................ 10.0 nmol/l
Prolactin......................... 126 mU/l

Blood sample was taken at 2 PM this time

I was told everything is in order and no further action need to be taken. I am the only one who thinks such TST levels are unacceptable for 24 yo guy or is something wrong with doc?

Anyways I pulled some strings and circumvented GP and I have an appointment at urologist. I know many of you guys are more knowledgeable about male hormones than the most of GPs out there so I wanted to know second opinion from you. Thanks!

 

[anabolicfre4k]

I visited urologist few weeks ago.

• My semen is in excellent condition, doctor said I could be a donor - 40 million/ml, normal pathology.
• He also checked my testicles - ultrasound, again great condition, no signs of dysfunction or anything to be concerned about
• He ordered blood work:
  • S-SHBG : 22.2 nmol/l [14.55-94.64]
  • S-Testosterón : 9.64 nmol/l [7.0-26.0]

The worst TST level I ever had and the doc said I am all right!!!

My TST levels so far:

• September - 10.4 nmol/l
  • (I posted results here)
• October - 10.0 nmol/l
• Now - 9.64 nmol/l

WTF is going on then?

 

[Sean Mosher]

You said you were being treated for anxiety and depression.
What medications?
Any past AAS use?

 

[anabolicfre4k]

You said you were being treated for anxiety and depression. What medication?

I have been on Sertraline, my steady dosage is 100mg, however I consider tapering down since I feel my condition would be better managed psychologically rather than with medication.

Any past AAS use?

I ran approximately 5-6 light to moderate cycles between age of 18 - 21 while I was competing. I am turning 25 next month, so I have been off AAS more than 3 years

 

[BenM]

I suspect that you're probably in an energy deficit, diet wise, eating like a typical body builder (lowish fat) and that is suppressing your natural production.

Eat some more food, so you're definitely in caloric maintenance or a very slight surplus, let things stabilise for a month or so, then test again.

 

[anabolicfre4k]

I suspect that you're probably in an energy deficit, diet wise, eating like a typical body builder (lowish fat) and that is suppressing your natural production.

Eat some more food, so you're definitely in caloric maintenance or a very slight surplus, let things stabilise for a month or so, then test again.

The last bloods were made while in caloric surplus for 2 months...

 

[BenM]

The last bloods were made while in caloric surplus for 2 months...

Well I apologise for jumping to conclusions. That said, I think your levels, especially at your age, are at a stage where I wouldn't be jumping into TRT and I'd be attempting more conservative interventions first. Diet, sleep, lifestyle, etc. I'd be interested to hear more about those. And I wouldn't be definitely pointing the finger at low testosterone being the cause of your symptoms. And even if it is the cause, treating the low T won't magically fix your symptoms if you don't address those other things anyway. Ask me how I know

 

[anabolicfre4k]

Well I apologise for jumping to conclusions. That said, I think your levels, especially at your age, are at a stage where I wouldn't be jumping into TRT and I'd be attempting more conservative interventions first. Diet, sleep, lifestyle, etc. I'd be interested to hear more about those. And I wouldn't be definitely pointing the finger at low testosterone being the cause of your symptoms. And even if it is the cause, treating the low T won't magically fix your symptoms if you don't address those other things anyway. Ask me how I know

No problem @BenM I jumped the same conclusion when I first found out about my low testosterone. During the first bloodwork I indeed was in caloric deficit and the first thing I did I upped my calories gradually into ~3000 kCal levels. I though this will be the problem because I have read couple studies documenting effects of dieting on bodybuilder's hormones. After two months eating surplus, things haven't changed TST level wise.

Regarding my lifestyle. I am software engineer in company that has very friendly culture. I am free to come whenever I want, leave whenever I want, workload is very moderate as well... at least I feel it this way because I has always been very good performer, so workload was never an issue. There is honestly zero stress factor in my job. Despite this fact I often feel stressed for no reason - I feel like I need to to this, need to do that... even though nobody is pushing me. Sometimes I find my mind racing with no apparent reason.

No mortgage, no kids, no wife, only girlfriend with fairly friendly relationship. No other responsibilities that could influence my stress levels apart from going to work and work my ass off in gym .

Sleeping pattern is quite normal - I sleep anywhere between 7 - 9 hours depending on week-day. What I noticed is that maybe the sleeping is not that good, I am not waking up that fresh as I used to.

My diet. I am bodybuilder maintaining lean condition year around (fluctuating between 8 - 15% BF). While adding weight I usually eat slight surplus as I currently do, while dieting I go as low as ~1800 kCal. My diet doesn't change drastically when dieting and bulking, only calories are adjusted.

• As a source of protein I prefer eating poultry the most but I definitely eat red meat and fish (white, salmon) regularly.
• Carbs usually come in form of white rice and whole grains.
• Fats are avocado, nuts, seeds.
• I am also supplementing with 6g fish oil, magnesium and calcium+D3, protein powder

My diet is fairly top-notch, as I am not competing I do not count every calorie, but paying very close attention to what I eat and how much of it.

Unless you suggest I should start eating crap, stop working out, get more demanding job in order to mitigate the symptoms and raise testosterone levels, I think my diet, shape, working out regime and job is VERY testosterone friendly.

Looking back when I was competing and using AAS, I can subjectively say I always felt more comfortable and balanced while on cycle, although some positive effects were surely negated by side effects of supra-physiological dosage of TST and added compounds.

Don't get me wrong I tried things in order to mitigate symptoms.

• I tried to reduce/increase dosage of Sertraline I am using since 16. Not much changed
• I started practising psychological stuff - this helped a lot with anxiety and panic attacks I was suffering through years. I actually started having panic attacks on daily basis this summer which was really bad and that was the time I decided to tackle it psychologically - the best move I have ever made.
• I tried took a break from gym
• I tried eating like "regular Joe" for a while

The worst symptoms I am suffering is

• the "on-edge" feeling I sometimes have and being easily irritated, especially by my GF.
• loss of libido
• absence or weakness of morning erections
• reduced volume of semen compared to my teen years
• plateau in gym (I might be very close to my natural genetic potential so this is subjective)

What I also noticed is that my symptoms, especially sexuality related are cyclic. I am horny for week or two in row, really genuine interested in sex and kinky thoughts and then I am mostly indifferent to sex for a month or so. I can have sex when I really need to (my GF going crazy) but I do not have the urge. I do not have problems with erection from physiological perspective, but it is easily lost or weakened due to not being horny enough.

If you have any ideas guys, I am all ears, if not then at least thanks for hearing me out.

 

[Royal244]

No problem @BenM I jumped the same conclusion when I first found out about my low testosterone. During the first bloodwork I indeed was in caloric deficit and the first thing I did I upped my calories gradually into ~3000 kCal levels. I though this will be the problem because I have read couple studies documenting effects of dieting on bodybuilder's hormones. After two months eating surplus, things haven't changed TST level wise.

Regarding my lifestyle. I am software engineer in company that has very friendly culture. I am free to come whenever I want, leave whenever I want, workload is very moderate as well... at least I feel it this way because I has always been very good performer, so workload was never an issue. There is honestly zero stress factor in my job. Despite this fact I often feel stressed for no reason - I feel like I need to to this, need to do that... even though nobody is pushing me. Sometimes I find my mind racing with no apparent reason.

No mortgage, no kids, no wife, only girlfriend with fairly friendly relationship. No other responsibilities that could influence my stress levels apart from going to work and work my ass off in gym .

Sleeping pattern is quite normal - I sleep anywhere between 7 - 9 hours depending on week-day. What I noticed is that maybe the sleeping is not that good, I am not waking up that fresh as I used to.

My diet. I am bodybuilder maintaining lean condition year around (fluctuating between 8 - 15% BF). While adding weight I usually eat slight surplus as I currently do, while dieting I go as low as ~1800 kCal. My diet doesn't change drastically when dieting and bulking, only calories are adjusted.

• As a source of protein I prefer eating poultry the most but I definitely eat red meat and fish (white, salmon) regularly.
• Carbs usually come in form of white rice and whole grains.
• Fats are avocado, nuts, seeds.
• I am also supplementing with 6g fish oil, magnesium and calcium+D3, protein powder

My diet is fairly top-notch, as I am not competing I do not count every calorie, but paying very close attention to what I eat and how much of it.

Unless you suggest I should start eating crap, stop working out, get more demanding job in order to mitigate the symptoms and raise testosterone levels, I think my diet, shape, working out regime and job is VERY testosterone friendly.

Looking back when I was competing and using AAS, I can subjectively say I always felt more comfortable and balanced while on cycle, although some positive effects were surely negated by side effects of supra-physiological dosage of TST and added compounds.

Don't get me wrong I tried things in order to mitigate symptoms.

• I tried to reduce/increase dosage of Sertraline I am using since 16. Not much changed
• I started practising psychological stuff - this helped a lot with anxiety and panic attacks I was suffering through years. I actually started having panic attacks on daily basis this summer which was really bad and that was the time I decided to tackle it psychologically - the best move I have ever made.
• I tried took a break from gym
• I tried eating like "regular Joe" for a while

The worst symptoms I am suffering is

• the "on-edge" feeling I sometimes have and being easily irritated, especially by my GF.
• loss of libido
• absence or weakness of morning erections
• reduced volume of semen compared to my teen years
• plateau in gym (I might be very close to my natural genetic potential so this is subjective)

What I also noticed is that my symptoms, especially sexuality related are cyclic. I am horny for week or two in row, really genuine interested in sex and kinky thoughts and then I am mostly indifferent to sex for a month or so. I can have sex when I really need to (my GF going crazy) but I do not have the urge. I do not have problems with erection from physiological perspective, but it is easily lost or weakened due to not being horny enough.

If you have any ideas guys, I am all ears, if not then at least thanks for hearing me out.

I am no expert but your total T looks very low, especially given your age. That being said, you are an low SHBG (at least on your latest test) guy which means you should have a lot of Free Testosterone. I would do tests again. Maybe in a different lab. If you can, include to them - Total Testosterone, Free Testosterone(!), SHBG, E2, DHT. Just because your balls are not damaged doesn't mean you're fine. You could have problem with pituitary gland. If your Free T is also on a lower end - then yeah, i would seek out treatment.

 

[anabolicfre4k]

Hi @Royal244 and thanks for reply!.

I am no expert but your total T looks very low, especially given your age

That's what I think and almost every serious board/medical article on web unfortunately.

I would do tests again. Maybe in a different lab.

All 3 tests were made in independent labs across 2 countries I will be doing next test soon within a week because I am going to andrological clinic where doctor at least acknowledged that my testosterone seems low. He asked me to bring fresh bloodwork so I am going for

• DHEA-S
• FSH
• LH
• Testosterone
• Free Test
• SHBG
• FAI
• Oestradiol (regular, sensitive not available)
• Prolactin
• Albumin

I will post results here as soon as I got them.

If your Free T is also on a lower end - then yeah, i would seek out treatment.

How is free testosterone level established other than calculating it in relationship to Total Testosterone vs SHBG? Because I am little confused here when it comes to Free T. If all they do is crunching numbers through calculator then according to multiple sites I could quickly found online my free and bio-available testosterone levels from the last tests are

• Free Testosterone: 6.67 NG/DL = 2.42%
• Bio-available testosterone: 156 NG/DL = 56.7%

 

[Vince]

The total testosterone level was significantly lower in the sertraline group compared with the control group.

The effect of sertraline, paroxetine, fluoxetine and escitalopram on testicular tissue and oxidative stress parameters in rats. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Royal244]

Hi @Royal244 and thanks for reply!.



That's what I think and almost every serious board/medical article on web unfortunately.



All 3 tests were made in independent labs across 2 countries I will be doing next test soon within a week because I am going to andrological clinic where doctor at least acknowledged that my testosterone seems low. He asked me to bring fresh bloodwork so I am going for

• DHEA-S
• FSH
• LH
• Testosterone
• Free Test
• SHBG
• FAI
• Oestradiol (regular, sensitive not available)
• Prolactin
• Albumin

I will post results here as soon as I got them.



How is free testosterone level established other than calculating it in relationship to Total Testosterone vs SHBG? Because I am little confused here when it comes to Free T. If all they do is crunching numbers through calculator then according to multiple sites I could quickly found online my free and bio-available testosterone levels from the last tests are

• Free Testosterone: 6.67 NG/DL = 2.42%
• Bio-available testosterone: 156 NG/DL = 56.7%

Yeah, i am getting the same results as you using online calculator.
Percentage-wise it looks good. I am on TRT and my Free T is 2.29% of my total. So, less than yours, but i haver higher shbg than you and honestly i don't know if you can make comparisons like this. And about how free testosterone levels are established? I have no idea. I read that there are multiple ways to test your free testosterone. It's not just one type of test that all labs are using. We'll see how your Free Testosterone looks like when you're going to check your levels again. I am honestly curious.

 

[anabolicfre4k]

The total testosterone level was significantly lower in the sertraline group compared with the control group.

The effect of sertraline, paroxetine, fluoxetine and escitalopram on testicular tissue and oxidative stress parameters in rats. - PubMed - NCBI

Thanks for finding the study. This is the only study I was able to find on SSRI's effect on testosterone. Generally the most of discussions and studies point to SSRI's effects on libido and overal sexual function, not testosterone levels.

One of the reasons why I want to try going off Sertraline is that I saw no improvements when I went from 100mg to 150mg so maybe I am taking SSRI unnecessary and it has only placebo effect on me.

 

[Vince]

Thanks for finding the study. This is the only study I was able to find on SSRI's effect on testosterone. Generally the most of discussions and studies point to SSRI's effects on libido and overal sexual function, not testosterone levels.

One of the reasons why I want to try going off Sertraline is that I saw no improvements when I went from 100mg to 150mg so maybe I am taking SSRI unnecessary and it has only placebo effect on me.

It is a very well known fact that SSRIs lower testosterone levels.

 

[anabolicfre4k]

Well I will definitely consult the fact with the doctor.

 

[anabolicfre4k]

Fresh results

• D.H.E.A. SULPHATE *
  • 4.570 umol/L 5.73 - 13.40
• FOLLICLE STIM. HORMONE
  • 5.52 IU/L 1.50 - 12.40
• LUTEINISING HORMONE
  • 3.84 IU/L 1.70 - 8.60
• TESTOSTERONE
  • 11.7 nmol/L 8.64 - 29.00
• FREE-TESTOSTERONE(CALCULATED)
  • 0.281 nmol/L 0.20 - 0.62
• SEX HORMONE BINDING GLOB
  • 26.1 nmol/L 18.30 - 54.10
• FREE ANDROGEN INDEX
  • 44.83 Ratio 24.00 - 104.00
• 17-BETA OESTRADIOL
  • 61.9 pmol/L 41.00 - 159.00
• PROLACTIN *
  • 383 mIU/L 86.00 - 324.00
• ALBUMIN
  • 39.1 g/L 35.00 - 50.00

Is it normal for prolactine to swing that wildly? The last time it was like that:

I went with these results to a GP and expressed my concerns about low T. She decided to redo blood tests but this time TST only, Thyroid and Prolactine.

TSH............................... 1.88 mU/l
Free T4.......................... 15.3 pmol/l
TST................................ 10.0 nmol/l
Prolactin......................... 126 mU/l

Blood sample was taken at 2 PM this time

 

[anabolicfre4k]

Hi all, here is my update.

I was at the andro clinic yesterday. Doc said my T levels are low for any guy, the fact that I am only 24 only make it look worse. He also commented on my LH/FSH levels being higher than he observes in guys around my age with normal ranges of testosterone which implies primary hypogonadism.

Just like the urologist before, this doc also had noted that my testes are in very good condition and sperm analysis came above average and healthy.

Hard to say what caused my T levels to be that low but he says the most likely it might be caused by abuse of AAS in past that could make my balls less responsive to LH/FSH stimulation.

He prescribed Androgel 1.62% 88g - 2 squeezes in the morning (which is 2.5g of gel). I could only get Androgel 5g sachets so it will be a half of sachet.

He said he prefers Androgel over shots because it better mimics natural testosterone in body and has less side effects. I have always been a bit sceptical about T gels but I am not going to argue with him since I have zero experiences with TRT and after all the gel might as well turn out to be the best fit for me.

He also suggested freezing some of my boys while my sperm count is as good as it is as it might get worse while taking exo T.

That was a good and valid point and here is what I am going to do:

1. I will give it a go for 2 months to see whether TRT does any good for me.
2. If yes, I will do couple shots of HCG, go freeze my boys and continue TRT.
3. If not, then there is no reason to continue TRT and therefore no need to freeze sperm.
4. In this case I would discontinue TRT and need to look for problem elsewhere

What do you think about all this? I am very eager to read observations from you - more experienced guys. I think I still have not fully digested the fact that I might actually end up being on TRT.

 

[PhilM7]

I was on Sertraline years ago for depression (not realizing my low mood was caused by my low T) and my libido vanished. There are many supplements that might help your mood, should you decide to stop taking Sertraline (example Mucuna Dopa which you can find on Amazon and some people get relief from St. John's Wart, and there are many other supplements that I just can't recall at the moment, but on Amazon I look at the reviews by reviewers, and they will often mention other supplements that they take). Also, be sure you are getting enough Vitamin D (my levels were low and I now take 2,000 IU per day to get them back to normal levels).

I don't know what AAS stands for (this site is a little frustrating because I see acronyms everywhere and I can't always figure out what they mean), but I have read that the hormone axis is sometimes damaged by bodybuilders taking steroids, so maybe that is the real cause of the Low T.

The only supplement I ever took that amped up my libido was 6-OXO, but the US FDA banned it many years ago. I currently take Clomid and my testosterone went from the mid 300 range to 1,019, however as you will see on these forums, I am the exception to the rule and most guys feel bad on Clomid. I feel fantastic myself, but libido is still a little strange. I don't feel aroused often, but once I get started with sex, I have no trouble and can go more than one time, so libido is much different than it was 10 years ago. I am 52 now. I am also a software developer, as are you, so I spend of lot of time sitting.

 

[anabolicfre4k]

AAS stands for Anabolic-androgenic steroids. Yeah I see you were on the damn SSRI too. The biggest problem is question is my low-T causing the problems and that's why I am taking SSRI or is SSRI causing low T and problems?

 

[PhilM7]

AAS stands for Anabolic-androgenic steroids. Yeah I see you were on the damn SSRI too. The biggest problem is question is my low-T causing the problems and that's why I am taking SSRI or is SSRI causing low T and problems?

I could not deal with no libido while on Sertraline, so I stopped taking it as soon as I got that stressful job behind me. However, that was a year before my testosterone started declining below 500, so from blood tests I saw during the year I took the SSRI, I don't think it lowered my testosterone significantly, because it was around 500 during that year (if I recall correctly). Unfortunately, I never had my testosterone level checked before maybe 7 or 8 years ago, when it was at 780, so I have no idea what my levels were when I was in my 30's and felt "normal". But I am extremely happy with where I am at today. I had arthritis pain in my lower back from 2014 to 2018 and I took Advil once or twice per day for pain. Since getting my T levels up, I don't take Advil anymore and I can lift weights again in the gym with no pain in my lower back or in other joints or tendons. I hope that the Testosterone gel will help you. Keep us posted!