Regain Fertility: Stopping TRT and switching to HCG-only (Ovidrel) 1500iu X 3 times a week

[HanOng]

Dear Fellow Excelmales

Having been on TRT (test cyp - 200mg weekly) for nearly 3 years, I ran a sperm count and the results were ZERO.

Been seeking high and low but none of the doctors (based in Singapore) endorse the TRT + HCG protocol, despite my relentless effort to share /educate with them the researches and journals available here.

At my wits end (and my wife's endless pressure and eagerness to start a family), I have decided to go with this doctor which prescribes the following:-

1) Stop my TRT
2) HCG 1500iu (Ovidrel) X 3 times a week (mainly mon, wed & fri) = 4500iu weekly

May I seek your expertise and opinions on the above protocol and also recommendations on how I may better improve it? (e.g. additional supplements / drugs required or do I still continue with TRT without the doctor's knowledge?)

My objective is to regain fertility to start a family while managing my low natural testosterone (having been on TRT for nearly 3 years, I do not want a crash and return to my old self prior to TRT)

I will be running this for 5 weeks before doing blood work again. Any opinions on which markers / tests I should be looking out for?

Thank you very much in advance for your expertise and I look forward to learning!

 

[Vince]

You may have read this thread. How to Stop Testosterone Safely and Possibly Reset Your Hormonal Axis. https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...-Safely-and-Possibly-Reset-Your-Hormonal-Axis

 

[Vince Carter]

Who knows...if you can get HCG there's no reason to stop Testosterone, just add the HCG @ 500iu three times per week and give it some time, repeat the sperm tests. Be on the lookout for Estrogen, too, that can rise rapidly in some guys using that much HCG.

 

[Dafox]

Who knows...if you can get HCG there's no reason to stop Testosterone, just add the HCG @ 500iu three times per week and give it some time, repeat the sperm tests. Be on the lookout for Estrogen, too, that can rise rapidly in some guys using that much HCG.

While it is possible to restore fertility with hCG on TRT, wouldn't it be easier (more reliable, faster) to do OFF TRT? I mean that way you also have to possibility of effectively stimulating FSH release with a SERM. Alternatively hCG+hMG, but still - off trt should be more effective if one doesn't have hMG at hand, right?

 

[HanOng]

Thanks Vince, always appreciate your insights and the constant guidance you had provided me since day 1.

However, I struggled with rock-bottom testosterone levels for years before TRT improved my life; just don't want to return to those negative days in pursue of the possibility of having a kid.

Nonetheless, I will bite the bullet and follow the doctor's advice and see where it takes me.

 

[HanOng]

Hi Dafoe & Vince Carter

Thanks for the inputs and I will keep a lookout for estrogen levels.

Which other markers do you reckon I should also track?

I have the following in mind:-

1) Total Test
2) Free Test
3) FSH
4) LH
5) E2

Anymore?

 

[Weasel]

Hi Dafoe & Vince Carter

Thanks for the inputs and I will keep a lookout for estrogen levels.

Which other markers do you reckon I should also track?

I have the following in mind:-

1) Total Test
2) Free Test
3) FSH
4) LH
5) E2

Anymore?

No need to test LH or FSH. They will be 0 or near 0.

 

[HanOng]

Thanks Weasel; I shall narrow it down to Total and Free Test alongside E2.

Already embarked on the 3 X 1500iu HCG weekly monotherapy schedule; hope my testosterone levels wouldn't crash without my usual 200mg of test cyp. per week.

 

[Weasel]

Thanks Weasel; I shall narrow it down to Total and Free Test alongside E2.

Already embarked on the 3 X 1500iu HCG weekly monotherapy schedule; hope my testosterone levels wouldn't crash without my usual 200mg of test cyp. per week.

4500iu a week is a very large HCG dose but it's one that many fertility docs use. You've really got to watch what your e2 is doing on this huge dose. I personally think 500iu EOD would get the job done just fine. there's no guarantee with any of this though.....Make sure you're getting the sensitive e2 test.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

If you're off of TRT already and your PRIMARY concern is fertility, then Clomid would be a more effective treatment in that regard than HCG monotherapy (Clomid stimulates both LH/FSH, while HCG mimics - but also suppresses - LH).

 

[HanOng]

Thanks Dr Justin.

Having read your reply, I had been googling Clomid vs HCG but do not really understand all the various reviews. Many protocols recommend being on both before tapering out the HCG.

Are you able to share more why doctors prescribe HCG vs Clomid?

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

Thanks Dr Justin.

Having read your reply, I had been googling Clomid vs HCG but do not really understand all the various reviews. Many protocols recommend being on both before tapering out the HCG.

Are you able to share more why doctors prescribe HCG vs Clomid?

Only run HCG prior to Clomid if you are still on TRT and are coming off of TRT at the time of starting the regimen. In this case, HCG can be used during the 2 week "washout" period after your last testosterone injection to stimulate testes. Once the exogenous T is out of your system (~2 weeks for T cyp), then Clomid is begun to kick start the system from the top-down (hypothal-pituitary-testes). HCG is DISCONTINUED at this time as it suppresses pituitary LH when taken.

 

[Van]

Dr Justin, Se puede usar proviron después de trt junto con clomid

Only run HCG prior to Clomid if you are still on TRT and are coming off of TRT at the time of starting the regimen. In this case, HCG can be used during the 2 week "washout" period after your last testosterone injection to stimulate testes. Once the exogenous T is out of your system (~2 weeks for T cyp), then Clomid is begun to kick start the system from the top-down (hypothal-pituitary-testes). HCG is DISCONTINUED at this time as it suppresses pituitary LH when taken.

Después de la última inyection de enantato, Hcg, después.. Proviron y clomid, puede ser usado? O proviron interfiere con eje hormonal?

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

Después de la última inyection de enantato, Hcg, después.. Proviron y clomid, puede ser usado? O proviron interfiere con eje hormonal?

I'm not fluent in Spanish, but will try my best...

Si, proviron interfiere con eje hormonal.

 

[Van]

I'm not fluent in Spanish, but will try my best...

Si, proviron interfiere con eje hormonal.

Thanks You, Dr Justin, you are very kind.

 

[HanOng]

Hi Guys

It has been 4 months since I stopped TRT (200mg Test Cyp weekly) and switched to HCG 1500iu (Ovidrel) X every other day = approx. 4500iu - 6000iu weekly. Aside from that, I am also on 100mg T4 daily.

Just ran my sperm count, total Test and T4/TSH panel with the following results:-

Sperm Count: 2.4 million
Motility: 8%
Volume: 2ml

Total Test: 890 nmol/L

TSH: 0.2 mIU/L
T4: 1.2 pmol/L

Having been on such high-dose HCG protocol for 4 months, I was really expecting huge improvements in my fertility. May I ask for the typical duration required for sperm production to revert to normal range being on HCG?

I am disappointed that after so long my fertility is still below-par and my doctor is continuing the same protocol for another 3 months before follow up. Am I supposed to be on high-dose HCG for prolonged duration (i.e. 8 months?) and will it create any long-term effects?

Please advise!!

 

[Vince]

I highly recommend taking the HCG alongside a TRT protocol.
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?9055-Nelson-Vergel-s-Testosterone-plus-HCG-Protocol

 

[HanOng]

Thanks Vince.

My doctor insist on HCG mono-therapy with her reason being testosterone injections will cease my sperm production. With the amount I am paying for HCG, I wouldn't want it to not work!

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

Hi HanOng- for fertility specifically in your case, you will need either FSH (or HMG) in conjunction with your HCG (as the high doses of HCG are likely suppressing your endogenous FSH - which is vital for sperm production). Alternatively (and less expensive), you could try Clomid as the best option specifically for fertility. If these options fail to produce improvements in sperm numbers, then you likely have primary testicular failure.

 

[HanOng]

Thanks Dr. Saya!

She did mention about FSH when I inquired about alternatives but insist that I continue with the same dosage of HCG for another 3 months.

May I also tap into your expertise for another questions? Will adding back another 100 - 200mg weekly of testosterone cypionate affect my sperm production? My well-being isn't as good as when I was on TRT so if I could restore that level with additional test. cyp. without affecting my fertility plan, I would.

Really appreciate your opinions on this Dr!