Putting TRT on hold to regain fertility. Should I Keep using hCG + Clomid/Torem?

[Dafox]

Hey guys!

If I go off TRT for a couple of months (hopefully not more than 4) to induce spermatogenesis, should I then remain on hCG (using 500iu 3x/week now) and add in a serm (Clomid/torem) for the duration while off testosterone?

Obviously people are treated with both types of medications for that specific purpose, but I am not sure if it is the case when going off trt OR if either drugs should be used at the same time in an attempt to improve/restore fertility.

I know hCG by itself is suppressive, but I do not care about that - I am not attempting a restart. I will be going back on TRT after I hopefully get my girl pregnant. I only care about improving fertility.

I've read that some of you prefer staying on trt while adding in hCG, but since this doesn't work for everyone I would honestly prefer the more "reliable" approach.

I appreciate your time, thanks!

 

[CoastWatcher]

Have you had a semen sample checked to determine sperm count at the present time? How long have you been on TRT, and what is your protocol? You've been using HCG during the entire course of therapy?

 

[Dafox]

Have you had a semen sample checked to determine sperm count at the present time? How long have you been on TRT, and what is your protocol? You've been using HCG during the entire course of therapy?

Hey Coast, thanks for replying!

I am having a semen-analysis done this Wednessday. If everything looks good then I wont change change anything. I am just thinking ahead in case the results aren't good.

I have been on TRT for 2 years. I had low T due to a couple of cycles I did for the purpose of bodybuilding. I didn't have hypogonadism though. That said I have never had any fertility test done before.

I used hCG for the entire first year, but not for the most part of this last year. I have recently started up the hCG again, after having been off it for about 9 months. I stopped because I had trouble controlling estrogen. This has unfortunately resulted in very atrophied testicles. I have used hCG for the past 2½ months now (500x3/w), and while I have regained a bit of size and firmess they are by no means "pre-TRT-size". This is the main reason I am worrying about my fertility. As far as I know there is a direct correlation between testicle size and fertility, but I am unsure if that counts for people these kinds of medications.

 

[Weasel]

personally, I'd just keep using the HCG for another 3 months or so and then go have a semen analysis.

I never quit TRT while trying knock the wife up. and I did.

 

[CoastWatcher]

personally, I'd just keep using the HCG for another 3 months or so and then go have a semen analysis.

I never quit TRT while trying knock the wife up. and I did.

Weasel isn't the only member who's reported success with HCG and concurrent TRT in regard to fertility.

 

[Weasel]

Weasel isn't the only member who's reported success with HCG and concurrent TRT in regard to fertility.

I was taking 500iu 3x week and when I had a semen analysis, my numbers were 7.8x that of what the test listed as adequate. I coulda just looked at her and knocked her up I think.


Oh and prior to HCG I was on T only for roughly 3 years. Initial test came back with ZERO swimmers.

 

[Dafox]

I was taking 500iu 3x week and when I had a semen analysis, my numbers were 7.8x that of what the test listed as adequate. I coulda just looked at her and knocked her up I think.


Oh and prior to HCG I was on T only for roughly 3 years. Initial test came back with ZERO swimmers.

Alright, maybe I should just stick to that then. It is not like I WANT to go off that's for sure!

My biggest worry is that since my testicles remain small, hCG might not be enough for me. Have any of you guys ever conceived with atrophied testicles?

I appreciate all the help guys, thanks!

 

[CoastWatcher]

Alright, maybe I should just stick to that then. It is not like I WANT to go off that's for sure!

My biggest worry is that since my testicles remain small, hCG might not be enough for me. Have any of you guys ever conceived with atrophied testicles?

I appreciate all the help guys, thanks!

Get a baseline sperm count. We're doing nothing other than guessing at this point based on your testicle description. The truth is in the numbers.

 

[Dafox]

Get a baseline sperm count. We're doing nothing other than guessing at this point based on your testicle description. The truth is in the numbers.

You are right, guessing wont do me much good. I am however still curious if anyone in here have ever had the experience of conceiving with atrophied testicles. Anyone?

Anyway, I will report back in a few days!

 

[Vince]

You are right, guessing wont do me much good. I am however still curious if anyone in here have ever had the experience of conceiving with atrophied testicles. Anyone?

Anyway, I will report back in a few days!

Testicular atrophy will cause fertility problems, or even infertility.

 

[Weasel]

You are right, guessing wont do me much good. I am however still curious if anyone in here have ever had the experience of conceiving with atrophied testicles. Anyone?

Anyway, I will report back in a few days!

While I do believe mine regained some size, I don't think they ever got back to pre TRT size. Size in not the end all be all to whether you are fertile or not.

I wouldn't change a thing until you have a semen analysis. Like CW said, You're purely guessing at this point.

I'd wait another 3 months and then get a semen analysis. (it takes 3 months for a sperm to develop start to finish)

 

[Dafox]

Alright, so I got checked 1 day earlier than planned and the test unfortunately shows that I have <5 million sperm and that motility sucks. It wasn't specified if it was azoospermia or if I just had very low numbers unfortunately.

I have a few options now:

1. Remain on trt + 500iu hCG every other day (or is it 3x 500iu weekly max?)

2. Go off trt but keep using hCG as per above method.

3. Go off TRT, remain on hCG and add in 50mg clomid or 60mg toremifene daily to the mix.

I only care about getting my fertility back, everything else is second priority - even my own wellbeing for the moment.

What do you guys think?

I could probably live without having kids myself, but it breaks my heart to know that I have possibly ruined my girls chance of ever having kids (with me at least).

 

[CoastWatcher]

Alright, so I got checked 1 day earlier than planned and the test unfortunately shows that I have <5 million sperm and that motility sucks. It wasn't specified if it was azoospermia or if I just had very low numbers unfortunately.

I have a few options now:

1. Remain on trt + 500iu hCG every other day (or is it 3x 500iu weekly max?)

2. Go off trt but keep using hCG as per above method.

3. Go off TRT, remain on hCG and add in 50mg clomid or 60mg toremifene daily to the mix.

I only care about getting my fertility back, everything else is second priority - even my own wellbeing for the moment.

What do you guys think?

I could probably live without having kids myself, but it breaks my heart to know that I have potentially ruined my girls chance of ever having kids (with me at least).

Didn't you write that it was only recently that you started/resumed hcg? Is your doctor confident in managing a protocol of this sort?

 

[Dafox]

Didn't you write that it was only recently that you started/resumed hcg? Is your doctor confident in managing a protocol of this sort?

I started using hCG mid November so about 2 months ago. I know the formation of new sperm typically takes 3 months, so I am remaining somewhat hopeful and will do another test in a month.

I am using hCG without my doctors approval (not that he is against it). He doesn't specialize in fertility and his best advice is to go cold turkey with everything including test, hcg, ai and serm.

 

[CoastWatcher]

I started using hCG mid November so about 2 months ago. I know the formation of new sperm typically takes 3 months, so I am remaining somewhat hopeful and will do another test in a month.

I am using hCG without my doctors approval (not that he is against it). He doesn't specialize in fertility and his best advice is to go cold turkey with everything including test, hcg, ai and serm.

As as important to you as this seems, I'd urge at least a one-time consultation with a fertility specialist.

 

[Weasel]

Personally, I'd go with option #1. 500 EOD should be fine. I'll bet in the next 6 months, you'll be seeing pretty decent numbers.

NEVER put your own well being as 2nd.

 

[Dafox]

Personally, I'd go with option #1. 500 EOD should be fine. I'll bet in the next 6 months, you'll be seeing pretty decent numbers.

NEVER put your own well being as 2nd.

Yea you are probably right. I guess I am just scared for the future and I want to do everything I can to better my odds.

I just wish my testicles would react more to the hCG. That is the main reason I am skeptic that I will recover. After 2½ months on it, they are only slightly larger, but remains fairly insensitive and my scrotum is constantly retracted.

Questions:
A lot of you guys react immediately to hCG shots. Are there anyone in here where it took a long time for them to recover function (and maybe even size) but ended up being successful anyway?

Thanks Weasel, I appreciate the encouragement!

@Coast, I have convinced my girl that if there are no changes in 3 months then we are going to a specialist. Fortunately here in Denmark, you can get free fertility care if you are childless, so money wont be a problem. It doesn't guarantee success though of course.

 

[Dafox]

Actually guys, I have considered to stop the TRT temporarily as I originally intended.

While staying on TRT and hCG continuously may work for some, it is not a risk I am willing to run. My testicles have been atrophied for far too long and I want to see what happens if I stop the testosterone. If not for anything to see if they even react to my future treatment.

I have been using testosterone propionate the past month, and I did my last injection 3 days ago.

I will continue today; using 500 iu hCG EOD, 50 mg Clomid ED and 1 mg anastrozole EW.

I am hoping the 500iu hCG and Clomid will prevent my testosterone from completely crashing, until spermatogensis is achieved (hopefully)

This method will despite some disadvantages, provide me with the mental relief of knowing that I am doing everything I can to better my chances.

In any case if nothing has improved 3 months from now we will see a specialist.

I have a question though, if you don't mind:

Does hCG and Clomid in anyway cancel each other out? I mean you never wanna use the two together in PCT since hCG is suppressive, but does that matter when the only goal is to achieve fertility?

 

[Dafox]

Bump

Does anyone know an answer to the following question:

"Can hCG and Clomid (or whatever SERM) be used together in order to improve fertility?"

From my research (male fertility studies) this seems to be a very common combination when trying to restore male fertility. HCG for LH stimulation and Clomid for both FSH and LH.

The thing is; you never use a serm + hCG at the same time during PCT, as the HCG would be suppressive by itself, but that of course is very different than just trying to restore fertility.

 

[johndoesmith]

Bump

Does anyone know an answer to the following question:

"Can hCG and Clomid (or whatever SERM) be used together in order to improve fertility?"

From my research (male fertility studies) this seems to be a very common combination when trying to restore male fertility. HCG for LH stimulation and Clomid for both FSH and LH.

The thing is; you never use a serm + hCG at the same time during PCT, as the HCG would be suppressive by itself, but that of course is very different than just trying to restore fertility.

My gut response is that no, clomid will not overcome the suppression of hCG. I don't know for sure, honestly.

Do you have any of those studies you've read? Sometimes people only look at the abstract due to paywalls, and the full study has the lab results, if LH/FSH aren't <1 then clomid is overcoming the HPTA suppression.

I honestly don't see that hCG at the same dose as on TRT, will provide additional fertility as it will without TRT.

The study of TRT + hCG used 500 IU EOD. Much higher than what you're using.