Rapid dissolve oral HCG and other HCG questions

[Nelson Vergel]

12,000 IU of HCG should run about $80

 

[dslfam]

Seems cheaper. Been getting a “discount” at 20000iu (20 weeks) for $300.

 

[Gman86]

Three ways to check HCG efficacy:

1- Testicular self-examination. Have they grown?

2- Semen analysis (wait 6 to 8 weeks after starting or changing HCG+ TRT dose). Good to also have a baseline semen test. Basic Semen Analysis

3- If you do not want to wait 6-8 weeks: 17-OH Progesterone blood test (2 weeks after) 17 - OH Progesterone : HCG + TRT Efficacy Predictor

Thanks Nelson! Just the answers I was looking for. Knew about #1 obv, but totally forgot about #2 + #3.

 

[Tad1979]

To the OP, I have been on sublingual HCG since I started TRT back in July. I wasn’t offered the option of injections and at the time I didn’t know there was any sort of controversy surrounding it. Upon seeing varying people say “it’s a scam”, I did my best to research the issue further. The most concrete thing I was able to find stated that taken via oral preparation, a portion of HCG is eliminated by the liver, whereas injections allow more of it to bypass the liver and actually effect the body.

Not having been on anything else, I can’t make a comparison. I was started on 500 iu, once a week. I had a small amount of testicular shrinkage in the first month, but that was it and it was something only myself and my spouse would have noticed. About a month ago I began having stabbing testicular pains, and my provider bumped me to 500, twice per week, still sublingual. The pain subsided greatly after the second dose following my increase, and has been absent since then. I haven’t noticed any additional shrinkage but perhaps I’m just lucky.

My take away is it works, at least to a degree, otherwise I’d expect the pain (essentially from organ shut down) to have continued. I suppose it could be placebo effect, but that’s not how it feels. I haven’t worried about semen analysis because we’re done with kids and the potential cost.

 

[Vince Carter]

Not every guy get's the shrinkage, which is strange but even more so avoids the pain of a shutdown/dormant organ so these are poor indicators of whether it works, or not.

But then you've got preeminent authorities on the matter telling you it's all bunk and yet you persist. Rather curious position to try and defend.

 

[Tad1979]

Not every guy get's the shrinkage, which is strange but even more so avoids the pain of a shutdown/dormant organ so these are poor indicators of whether it works, or not.

But then you've got preeminent authorities on the matter telling you it's all bunk and yet you persist. Rather curious position to try and defend.

This sort of response is why I typically lurk. People come here for information and to “share experiences” supposedly but end up getting attacked. I’m not attacking anyone, nor am I claiming to be a “preeminent authority” on anything. Prior responses to the OP claimed “no one here uses it”. I do, so felt my experience might round out the conversation directed at the OP. Contrary to the “stellar” elaboration earlier in the thread, I actually mention WHY oral HCG would be less effective (doesn’t survive the liver). So it’s not like I’m saying it’s perfect. I’d be the first person to admit there are things that could potentially make my TRT more optimal, but as I’ve mentioned before, finances are an issue and some form of treatment is better than none at all or my kids going without food. And optimal or not, my quality of life has dramatically improved since starting treatment, so something must be going right. Thanks for the civil discourse. Back to lurking with me, if I bother to return at all.

 

[Will Brink]

Hmm well that sucks.... it’s from a reputable trt clinic and made by a large compounding pharmacy..... I’ve never used anything besides injectable either but they just recently switched to this. Has anyone ever actually tried them or done any before/after tests to check if they work?? My assumption/fear is exactly what you said.... but I just was hoping someone had concrete proof one way or another.

Reptuable clinics don't sell oral HCG. Simply ask them for the data they base the product off of, showing HCG is orally bio available. If they can't supply that, they're scammers and to be avoided.

 

[evansjamesk]

I realize this is an old post, but since my compounding pharmacy recently switched me to sublingual HCG, I'm reopening it to ask a question. Does the belief that oral HCG is ineffective come from oral HCG, or from sublingual HCG? There's a huge difference between sending a med through your digestive system, and having it enter your bloodstream sublinqually, isn't there? Same with Test - you can't take it orally because it's destroyed by the liver (I know, oral testosterone undecanoate has now been approved by the FDA), so it has to be injected OR taken sublingually, as Dr. John Crisler sometimes prescribes the testosterone troches. So at the risk of inciting flame wars, I'd like to know if sublingual HCG is effective, and where are the studies confirming or refuting that belief. The reason my pharmacy switched me is because they began having difficulty getting vials of injectible HCG. I don't like the sublingual as much, and will probably switch back, but I'd still like to know if sublingual is a viable option.

 

[fifty]

I don’t think it’s effective; oral, sublingual, whatever. With that logic, why don’t people just rub test cyp into their gums?

 

[evansjamesk]

I don’t think it’s effective; oral, sublingual, whatever. With that logic, why don’t people just rub test cyp into their gums?

Fifty, it's not just a matter of logic; the difference between oral and sublingual use is huge. Many meds are prescribed for sublingual use that wouldn't work if swallowed. And the fact that Dr. Crisler prescribes sublingual test troches for occasional use refutes your logic comment. And again, I'm asking for studies and proof, not opinion. Back in the day, Dr. Crisler refused to prescribe anything but intramuscular test injections. Now he prescribes subcutaneous test injections, as enough verifiable evidence has been documented. I've searched (briefly) on pubmed, but most of the studies of sublingual HCG had to do with the HCG diet scam, particularly in women, not on the effect of sublingual HCG on testes.

 

[fifty]

You can try it. It will just not work like 90% of other supplements that are on the market.

I’m sure you can find a study that says sublingual hcg works...done by a company that sells it.

Dr. Crisler passed away last year.

 

[sammmy]

Testosterone can be absorbed transdermally and through oral/nasal mucosa, but it has a molar mass of 288 g/mol.

HCG has a molar mass of 36,000 g/mol so it's molecule is 100 times larger than testosterone. My guess is that makes it rather hard for it to be absorbed through skin or through oral/nasal mucosa but actual studies are needed to investigate that.

I use topical Superoxide Dismutase that has a molar mass of around 32,500 g/mol (similar large molecule as HCG) and theoretically it should not be absorbed through skin, yet it clearly calms my skin down so it must penetrate through the epidermis - probably through sebaceous glands. I don't know if it stays in the skin or gets systemic but this is an example that transdermal absorption must be studied before brushing it off solely on large molar mass.

 

[evansjamesk]

You can try it. It will just not work like 90% of other supplements that are on the market.

I’m sure you can find a study that says sublingual hcg works...done by a company that sells it.

Dr. Crisler passed away last year.

Damn. I didn't know he'd passed. He was my TRT specialist for years and changed my life. I traveled to his office in Lansing several times but usually had VOVs with him. He could be a real jerk at times, but in my experience, most doctors share that trait.

I called my compounding pharmacy today and now both the injectible and sublingual HCG are unavailable, likely because COVID shut down the companies that manufacture it. If someone knows of a source for injectible HCG, I'd like to know. While I am not convinced that sublinqual HCG is ineffective, I'm more comfortable with the injections, as that's been my usual protocol for most of my TRT life (maybe 20 years).

 

[tareload]

Testosterone can be absorbed transdermally and through oral/nasal mucosa, but it has a molar mass of 288 g/mol.

HCG has a molar mass of 36,000 g/mol so it's molecule is 100 times larger than testosterone. My guess is that makes it rather hard for it to be absorbed through skin or through oral/nasal mucosa but actual studies are needed to investigate that.

I use topical Superoxide Dismutase that has a molar mass of around 32,500 g/mol (similar large molecule as HCG) and theoretically it should not be absorbed through skin, yet it clearly calms my skin down so it must penetrate through the epidermis - probably through sebaceous glands. I don't know if it stays in the skin or gets systemic but this is an example that transdermal absorption must be studied before brushing it off solely on large molar mass.

Good resources for those interested:

Nice primer

Can Skin Absorb That? Everything You Want To Know About Skin Absorption of Chemicals from Cosmetics

The subject of skin absorption and cosmetics is full of inaccuracies. While it is important to take chemical absorption through skin into account – it is, after all, the basis for many people switching to natural cosmetics – you can’t believe everything you read. For starters, that 60% figure...

blissoma.com

More information on preference for absorption through follicular route

Evaluation of skin absorption of drugs from topical and transdermal formulations

ABSTRACT The skin barrier function has been attributed to the stratum corneum and represents a...

www.scielo.br

SOD as an enzyme appears to be exception rather than the rule

A novel efficient and safe treatment for atopic dermatitis: Topical superoxide dismutase (SOD).

A novel efficient and safe treatment for atopic dermatitis: Topical superoxide dismutase (SOD)., Christian Diehl*

www.alliedacademies.org

Protective effect of superoxide dismutase against hair graying in a mouse model - PubMed

Oxygen free radicals play a role in the aging process, and the protective effect of various antioxidants has been intensively studied, in particular for cutaneous aging. Besides hereditary factors, free radical-mediated damage to melanocytes of the hair follicle has been considered as a...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Original paper reviewing the 500 Dalton Rule:

The 500 Dalton rule for the skin penetration of chemical compounds and drugs - PubMed

Human skin has unique properties of which functioning as a physicochemical barrier is one of the most apparent. The human integument is able to resist the penetration of many molecules. However, especially smaller molecules can surpass transcutaneously. They are able to go by the corneal layer...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Recent efforts to create transdermal delivery delivery system for insulin:

Advances in transdermal insulin delivery

Insulin therapy is necessary to regulate blood glucose levels for people with type 1 diabetes and commonly used in advanced type 2 diabetes. Although …

www.sciencedirect.com

Insulin (5734 g/mol) much lower MW than hCG (36.7 kDa, approximately 14.5 αhCG and 22.2kDa βhCG)

 

[tareload]

Damn. I didn't know he'd passed. He was my TRT specialist for years and changed my life. I traveled to his office in Lansing several times but usually had VOVs with him. He could be a real jerk at times, but in my experience, most doctors share that trait.

I called my compounding pharmacy today and now both the injectible and sublingual HCG are unavailable, likely because COVID shut down the companies that manufacture it. If someone knows of a source for injectible HCG, I'd like to know. While I am not convinced that sublinqual HCG is ineffective, I'm more comfortable with the injections, as that's been my usual protocol for most of my TRT life (maybe 20 years).

I haven't ordered hCG from an outsourcing facility in a while and am not abreast as to which ones still have it since the FDA decision:

Notice to Compounders: Changes that affect compounding as of March 23,

A change to the law will impact compounding of certain products beginning on March 23, 2020. On that date, biological products that were approved under the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic (FD&C) Act will transition to being licensed under the Public Health Service (PHS) Act.

www.fda.gov

Compounders can’t make these once they’re biologics - Bioprocess Insider

After 23 March, the US FDA won’t allow any more bulk compounding of four oft-compounded drug substances, disrupting patient care, compounders say.

bioprocessintl.com

I can report that Pregnyl/generic equivalent is still available through my specialty pharmacy with Doctor's prescription at same price today as in 2019.

 

[sammmy]

The only actual study I can find is on rectal absorption of HCG in male rabbits. In order to get about 3/4 of the Area Under Curve of the intravenous HCG dose, they had to use a 100 times larger rectal HCG dose coupled with alpha-cyclodextrin (absorption booster). That could make it rather expensive. They didn't get any absorption without alpha-cyclodextrin.

Pharmacokinetics and Pharmacodynamics of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG) after Rectal Administration of Hollow-Type Suppositories Containing hCG

 

[swoops36]

Damn. I didn't know he'd passed. He was my TRT specialist for years and changed my life. I traveled to his office in Lansing several times but usually had VOVs with him. He could be a real jerk at times, but in my experience, most doctors share that trait.

I called my compounding pharmacy today and now both the injectible and sublingual HCG are unavailable, likely because COVID shut down the companies that manufacture it. If someone knows of a source for injectible HCG, I'd like to know. While I am not convinced that sublinqual HCG is ineffective, I'm more comfortable with the injections, as that's been my usual protocol for most of my TRT life (maybe 20 years).

I tried it once while traveling. Didn’t want to worry about keeping HCG cold, but turns out they want the troches to be chilled as well. Anyway, I didn’t feel like it worked. Only used for 3 weeks and tossed the rest when I got home. Mine came from Empower I think.

 

[madman]

*HCG products include sublingual drops, lozenges, and pellets, but none of these methods has an evidence-based efficacy and safety standard.

 

[tareload]

*HCG products include sublingual drops, lozenges, and pellets, but none of these methods has an evidence-based efficacy and safety standard.

Is there a link you were trying to attach here? Empty.

 

[Cataceous]

Is there a link you were trying to attach here? Empty.

It seems the quote comes from here:

Effect of the human chorionic gonadotropin diet on patient outcomes - PubMed

As popularity of the HCG diet continues to increase, so do the potential adverse events associated with the management of weight loss via an unproven strategy. Patient safety information regarding this dieting strategy should be recognized by medical professionals.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov