Pregnenolone (cream) + Test Cyp + HCG. Start together or not?

[hombre]

Dr. Saya just put me on Test Cyp + HCG and Pregnenolone/DHEA cream (my first consultation).

But I forgot to ask him during the consultation if I should start Test / HCG first to feel it out, symptoms wise, before introducing another variable (pregnenolone cream - for low noon cortisol, thyroid, energy etc).

The medical assistant confirmed over email that it should be fine. But I'm not sure how much time I should wait. And if it actually makes any sense. Otherwise I won't know if pregnenolone cream actually does anything for me.

 

[Vince]

You have a protocol, I definitely would stick with it until you have labs and then make adjustments to get more dialed-in if necessary.

 

[MarkM]

Two schools of thought here and both are right. It is just what works best for you. One school of thought is what Vince sates, the doctor has given you a protocol and you should move forward with it. The other protocol is what you mentioned and that is to add one change at a time so you can see if that particular change made an impact one way or the other.

I would lean toward staring off with the testosterone and HCG, if not just testosterone mono-therapy, to begin with. After a minimum of 6 weeks I would retest and then add the Pregnenolone/DHEA cream.

Are you taking the HCG for the purpose of fertility and or to prevent testicular atrophy?

 

[hombre]

@MarkM to prevent atrophy, I got prescribed 300IU 3x a week, and was told to watch for shrinkage, I guess if I delay HCG shrinkage can happen then (not fun).

Pregnenolone was prescribed to raise noon cortisol a bit, since my cortisol crashes starting noon and all day stays low (8am is fine), so in this case pregnenolone is expected to make me feel more energetic, and that's what Dr. Saya said, TRT won't give energy, which is interesting, since low energy is a pretty common mentioned symptom of low T that people bring up. (I did a ton of testing before starting TRT, including a salivary cortisol test, 4 samples; which Dr. Saya asked me to get done again before a follow up)

 

[MarkM]

Shrinkage can happen if you do not take HCG but it doesn't happen immediately. My opinion it is a relatively slow process. I did not take HCG for 12 years and I can't honestly tell any difference. I think some men have noticeable shrinkage and some have virtually none, while others might be somewhere in between.

If you try testosterone mono-therapy for a couple of months and then decide to try the HCG I don't think you will experience atrophy in that short a period of time.

My testosterone levels were almost non-existent when I began TRT and I was extremely tired all the time. Increasing my testosterone sure helped my energy levels and just overall made me feel better.

You can start everything all at once like it sounds like Defy wants you to do. Why don;t you contact Defy and just ask. That is what I would do.

You can contact Jesse with Defy by sending him a private message (Jesse-Defy) from the forum or you can probably email him at [email protected]. He works directly with Dr. Saya. Jesse seems good about responding to people wither way.

 

[Canada878]

Can you post your 4x cortisol results for us to see? Are you taking ang thyroid meds?

 

[hombre]

@Canada878

Time	Units	Ref range	Value
8:00 AM	ug/dL	0.025 - 0.600	0.413
12:00 PM	ug/dL	<0.010 - 0.330	0.051
4:00 PM	ug/dL	0.010 - 0.200	0.018
11:59 PM	ug/dL	<0.010 - 0.090	0.009

Not on any thyroid meds

Thyroid (Labcorp ref ranges): first test | second test:
Free T3: 3.1 (45%) | 2.8 (41%)
Free T4: 1.55 (76%) | 1.53 (74%)
TSH: 2.06 | 2.54
Reverse T3: 25.6 HIGH

Been taking Pregnenolone/DHEA cream for 5 days so far (without TRT / HCG), no changes in perceived energy, maybe it does nothing for me, or maybe not long enough to tell

 

[Sean Mosher]

Very elevated T3.
Did you guys not discuss that in your visit?

 

[hombre]

@Sean Mosher we discussed a bit, mainly that introduction of pregnenolone is expected to raise noon cortisol, which may help with thyroid performance (less reverse t3)

 

[Vince Carter]

I dont really like Preg (or DHEA), I prefer to see guys get started with Cyp and get a baseline going before monkeying around with either one of thus Hormones. Plus they're typically overdosed as "prescribed" and thus too many guys don't tolerate it or just don't have a positive experience with it.

When introducing either of those I prefer to see guys try 5-10mg of either/both and judge tolerance.