Opinions...

[coltsblue1812]

I will try to keep this short and to the point, looking for opinions...

Have had bloodwork done recently and everything looks good, except:

Total T = 253
Vitamin D = 24
Vitamin B12 = 226
(Free T is obviously low, also, but is 2.3% of total)...

I'm 38 years old, 6'5" 265lbs


4 years ago when I had all of the tests done, my Total T was 527... back then I only weighed 235lbs (and could've still dropped to 215-220) and I lifted 4x per week and sprint/jogged 3x per week and had an active job (on my feet and up n down 5 flights of stairs for 45 hours a week) but my sleep and diet were crap. Now I've had a baby (16 months today), gained 30lbs and haven't lifted in over a year and have a desk job.

My doc has prescribed trt for me, but told me if I'd like to put some serious effort into raising it naturally first, that's fine, also.

SO, my question for everyone...IF I'm able to get my weight back down to 220s/230s and start lifting and being more active...and optimize my D3 and B12...and actually focus on my diet/micronutrients and sleep, do you think it's likely that I can get back to where I was before, without trt?

I'm open to taking it if I have to, but I'd also be willing to put in 6-12 months if need be, if I can do it on my own without shots.

Opinions, comments etc?

Thanks, guys!!

 

[mooseman109]

My opinion is try the weight loss and optimization of your nutrients. You are only 38. You have not stated how you feel. Chasing numbers for the sake of numbers is never a good place to be, especially hormones. Trt is pretty much a life time commitment. It has it’s own set of problems. Many of us stuggle with too much red blood cells and that leads to regular blood donations, i am in that group. Estrogen can rise and involve another level of drugs............ Usually ever as easy as just getting injections or gels.
If you can bring it back u and feel good without Iwould call that best
Could you go on testosterone amd it help you loose weight and then come off and restart your balls into making it again?? Possibly. Not the route I would take.

 

[coltsblue1812]

How I feel:
Lack of motivation, low energy, low sex drive...can get it up though, but sometimes takes stimulation.
Mood is fine, no depression.

I asked because I agree that I could probably boost my #s n get back to how I felt before, with getting in better shape and following a good diet/ workout routine etc... but I'm at less than half the total T that I had, before.

But with my D3 so low and weight jumped up 30lbs n activity level gone so far down, I'm wondering how far/fast I can get things back in order... has anyone here been in the same boat n had success?

Any advice or tips etc?

 

[fifty]

You can do it without trt. Desk jobs are a killer. Just need to find a way to get some regular activity or lifting in. Maybe lift with a partner or try crossfit or group exercise or join a softball or bball league, etc.

I’m 38 on trt and i feel worse with levels over 1500 than i did pre trt. Only thing it helped me with is sex drive and some strength which wasn’t my primary goal.

I would try low dose dhea or fenugreek/nettle extract before trt. Not that they will skyrocket your t but they may make you feel better. Sleep and nutrition are also huge. Trt is a huge help to some and just a series of continual problems for many others.

 

[coltsblue1812]

I guess my doubts/concerns are just that from 253 to 527, I've dropped so far down... not sure what's a realistic expectation on how far/fast I can do this?

 

[Systemlord]

I will try to keep this short and to the point, looking for opinions...

Have had bloodwork done recently and everything looks good, except:

Total T = 253
Vitamin D = 24
Vitamin B12 = 226
(Free T is obviously low, also, but is 2.3% of total)...

SO, my question for everyone...IF I'm able to get my weight back down to 220s/230s and start lifting and being more active...and optimize my D3 and B12...and actually focus on my diet/micronutrients and sleep, do you think it's likely that I can get back to where I was before, without trt?

You are more than likely able to turns things around as your Free T percentage isn't terrible, if you get a desk where you are able to stand up while working (great for posture) and exercise a couple of times per week, you just may be able to increase T naturally.

That fact that your Total T is low and Free T percentage within the 2-3 percent that is normal, your SHBG must be very, very low. If you did need TRT at some point in the future, you wouldn't need a very high Total T to have optimal Free T levels, probably a Total T of 350-400 would do the trick.

 

[Vince]

I guess my doubts/concerns are just that from 253 to 527, I've dropped so far down... not sure what's a realistic expectation on how far/fast I can do this?

Yes it is very realistic. Exercise, lose weight and get good sleep. I would do labs in 6 months and six months after that.

 

[coltsblue1812]

Thanks guys!

My SHGB was 27

 

[fifty]

Increase Testosterone

 

[coltsblue1812]

Is 27 low on SHBG?

 

[fifty]

Range is 16-55? You tell me.

 

[Systemlord]

Thanks guys!

My SHGB was 27

If you really do have an SHBG of 27 (not doubting you) and Free T is actually 2.3 percent, this would make your SHBG the most slippery SHBG I have ever seen. The only other men I have seen with these Total to Free T ratios is very low SHBG men.

This is why I though your SHBG was very low, it might as well be. I have seen men with an SHBG of 34 and Free T is very low when Total T slightly above mid normal ranges.

There is a variability in the stickiness of SHBG from person to person, we are all biologically unique.

 

[Cataceous]

If you really do have an SHBG of 27 (not doubting you) and Free T is actually 2.3 percent, this would make your SHBG the most slippery SHBG I have ever seen. The only other men I have seen with these Total to Free T ratios is very low SHBG men.

This is why I though your SHBG was very low, it might as well be. I have seen men with an SHBG of 34 and Free T is very low when Total T slightly above mid normal ranges.

There is a variability in the stickiness of SHBG from person to person, we are all biologically unique.

There's nothing unusual about that free T percentage with an SHBG of 27 nmol/L. Free T may have been calculated via either the Vermeulen method or the multi-ligand method, as both are close to that 2.3% figure.

As for the "variability in the stickiness of SHBG," though possible, substantial variations may be uncommon. And in any case, clearly calculated free T cannot be used as supporting evidence, nor can one use the notoriously inaccurate direct free T tests. Instead free T must be measured via equilibrium dialysis or possibly ultrafiltration.

 

[Cataceous]

...
Total T = 253
...
(Free T is obviously low, also, but is 2.3% of total)...

I'm 38 years old, 6'5" 265lbs
...

What I would do is try a SERM, ideally enclomiphene, for a few months. Your SHBG is low enough that you might still be able to raise free T. During the trial I would go all out with the healthy lifestyle, eating right and exercising. If you get great subjective results then maybe you'll want to stick with everything. If you get good numbers but don't feel great then you can stop the SERM to see if you can maintain the testosterone and feel better. If none of this is good enough then I would seriously consider TRT. Not to be overly pessimistic, but it's not common for guys to bounce back from testosterone in the 200s ng/dL using natural methods alone.

 

[coltsblue1812]

I'm not up to speed on the ratios and what they all mean...and never really knew what the SHBG range was, to be honest. I've had tests ran a few different times...on most of my labs the past few years, I've been right at 2% free T...and as my TT has gone down, so has my SHBG... it was 31 when my TT was upper 400s...and 27 when I dropped below 300.

My hematocrit is always between 42-44% and TSH 1.47...PSA .9

 

[coltsblue1812]

Over the past few years, total T has seen a steady decline... 1st time it was tested and was 527...then 483...then 363...then 268 and now 253

 

[fifty]

Yeah because you have a desk job now and don’t train anymore.

You don’t have to prove to us you need trt. If that’s what you want to hear then shell out the cash. Clinics will treat you even if your T is 700 if you’re comin with $$$.

 

[coltsblue1812]

Sorry for any misunderstanding, but I'm not trying to "prove" that I need TRT...my doctor has already prescribed it and it's been sitting in my cabinet for the past year, untouched.
My reason for this thread is that I would rather do it naturally if I can, but honestly dont KNOW if I can get from 250s back to 500s. That's why I've been asking so many questions and trying to give as much info as I can.
My doctor is onboard with me doing it naturally if I can, but has no problem prescribing test cyp injections if I need them.

I honestly dont know how likely it is that I could get back to somewhat normal #s, that's why I'm here.

I think you've taken my intention completely wrong

 

[Systemlord]

Over the past few years, total T has seen a steady decline... 1st time it was tested and was 527...then 483...then 363...then 268 and now 253

Usually age related decline in testosterone isn't correctable, but if testosterone is low do to poor sleep, overtraining and or starvation diets and levels haven't been low for long periods of time, that's another story.

There are some specialists saying testosterone doesn't decline do to aging, but do to disease, lifestyle and environmental contamination.

 

[fifty]

I got you. Read thru the link I posted earlier. I would consider all of those items. Then if you run out of things to try there you can try clomid or enclomiphene or hcg.

I personally would try all that before trt. This forum has many men with T levels over 900 that probably have as many symptoms as you do.