Need help with T-Cypionate - Vials (Single vs. multiple - What do you guys use?)

[aneuman]

Hello,

I'm about to start T-Cypionate. Pharmacy tells me that it only lasts 28 days so I must order individual single use vials of 100 mg each so they last 70 days which is what was prescribed by the doctor.

Problem is that even though the doctor ordered 100 mg/week, I was planning on using 40 mg twice a week to start with and see how it went. I was under the impression that T.Cyp. came in a multiple dose vial and it lasted much longer than 28 days.

Could you guys help me asses this situation? What should I tell the pharmacy to order? (pharmacy is Publix Pharmacy) What do you guys use?

Greatly appreciate Any advise as I haven't ordered it yet, and I'm not sure if the "single use" ones have a rubber stopper iso I can withdraw whatever amount I wanted or are simply glass vials that must be discarded after opening.

Thanks

 

[Cataceous]

This subject has been discussed extensively, e.g.:

True /false -Multi-dose 10ml vial expires after 28 days of puncturing??

Hey hey guys, out of curiosity I was googling questions about Pfizer brand testosterone multi-dose 10ml vial because I just started getting them. I used to just get the single-use vials because my insurance stopped covering the single dose vials except Perrigo which I don't use I had an...

www.excelmale.com

Long story short, the risk of microbial growth does increase over time, but the odds are low, so many of us take our chances and use vials over several months or more.

If you do end up stuck with ampules then the contents can be transferred to sterile vials for multiple doses. Just make sure the formulation has a preservative, often benzyl alcohol.

 

[aneuman]

This subject has been discussed extensively, e.g.:

True /false -Multi-dose 10ml vial expires after 28 days of puncturing??

Hey hey guys, out of curiosity I was googling questions about Pfizer brand testosterone multi-dose 10ml vial because I just started getting them. I used to just get the single-use vials because my insurance stopped covering the single dose vials except Perrigo which I don't use I had an...

www.excelmale.com

Long story short, the risk of microbial growth does increase over time, but the odds are low, so many of us take our chances and use vials over several months or more.

If you do end up stuck with ampules then the contents can be transferred to sterile vials for multiple doses. Just make sure the formulation has a preservative, often benzyl alcohol.

Thanks @Cataceous. Helpful and on point as always. I freaked out today after the pharmacy called me multiple times with changes from 200 mg, to 100 mg, to multiple vials, to single use, etc.

 

[tareload]

Who is covering the bill?

There are many ways to play this all of which should leave you with extra inventory for a rainy day. Always have inventory.

Lately I got "stuck" with single use 200 mg vials for each 60 mg injection. However as shared above you can use them many more times than a single use [hint].


2000 mg vial....? If you practice proper aseptic technique and swab swab swab I had no problems drawing from same bottle for 9 months.

 

[aneuman]

Who is covering the bill?

I'm covering the bill @readalot ($70 x 3 months). The prescription I got was for 10 ml of 200 mg/ml. Initially I thought it would come in one vial with a rubber stopper that would allow me to draw multiple dosages, as I will be tuning in my treatment (doctor initially recommended 200 mg/2 weeks, then changed upon my request to 100 mg/week, I'll be using 40 mg every twice a week to start)

There are many ways to play this all of which should leave you with extra inventory for a rainy day. Always have inventory.

This is a great avise and I always do that with all my medications.

According to my expectations of what I'm going to get and what I plan to inject, this should work as follows

100 mg/ml single use vial
80 mg/week divided in two shots of 40 mg
I would draw 0.4 ml from the vial per injection
1 vial should last 1 week ( no rainy day)

The only thing I can think of is delaying the start of the treatment so I can get the refill earlier and I can keep my extra inventory

Lately I got "stuck" with single use 200 mg vials for each 60 mg injection. However as shared above you can use them many more times than a single use [hint].

Then Publix called me saying my insurance wouldn't cover it, and that the vials needed to be individual single dose and the thing that came to mind was ampules, which freak me out, and that's why I posted. I still don't know what I'm getting, as the pharmacy refused to dispense 10 ml of 200 mg/ml in one vial because "I would need to discard it after 28 days", so I think what they ordered is 10 vials of 1 ml each (I assume 100 mg) which I don't think it's ideal, as I plan to inject SQ, and I would've very much preferred to inject less volume, but we'll see...

2000 mg vial....? If you practice proper aseptic technique and swab swab swab I had no problems drawing from same bottle for 9 months.

Did I say 2000? Then no, absolutely not. My prescription says 10 ml Testosterone Cypionate 200 mg/ml. 100 mg per week. 3 refills

Question for you @readalot, @Cataceous, and all the helpful and knowledgeable people in this forum. What do you actually get from the pharmacy? What's your preferred "distribution"? A single vial, multiple, 100 mg, 200 mg?


On another topic, I was on hCG mono, 200 IU per day, feeling great except for the sexual stuff. I stoped a couple of days ago and last night encounter was horrible, my sleep sucks and I feel like sh*t. Can't wait to start T.Cyp.

 

[aneuman]

I finally got my prescription. It's 200 mg/ml, 1 ml vial, but I assume I can easily draw 0.2 ml (40 mg) twice a week and with luck it should last me 2 weeks, allowing me to build my rainy day stock (thanks @readalot)

This is the one I got this morning.

Any advise regarding how to best make use of this particular product would be appreciated.

I plan to deliver it sub-cutaneously (SQ) using 0.5 ml 31G syringes. Is this too small? Any techniques anyone wants to share based on experience?

My goal is to inject it in the love handles (lots of fat there). Would the belly be preferable?

Again, I'd really appreciate any advice on how to start my TRT journey the best way possible. Most of my experience has been with hCG and Enclomiphene, which I'm happy to share, but TRT is completely new (and I must confess a bit scary) to me.

Cheers

 

[tareload]

I finally got my prescription. It's 200 mg/ml, 1 ml vial, but I assume I can easily draw 0.2 ml (40 mg) twice a week and with luck it should last me 2 weeks, allowing me to build my rainy day stock (thanks @readalot)

This is the one I got this morning.
View attachment 32856

Any advise regarding how to best make use of this particular product would be appreciated.

I plan to deliver it sub-cutaneously (SQ) using 0.5 ml 31G syringes. Is this too small? Any techniques anyone wants to share based on experience?
View attachment 32857
My goal is to inject it in the love handles (lots of fat there). Would the belly be preferable?

Again, I'd really appreciate any advice on how to start my TRT journey the best way possible. Most of my experience has been with hCG and Enclomiphene, which I'm happy to share, but TRT is completely new (and I must confess a bit scary) to me.

Cheers

Fantastic posts Brother.

Yes that is what I am working my way through currently (200mg / 1 ml vials). These vials typically have 1.1 to 1.15 ml per vial so you should easily be able to get 5 injections at 0.2 ml per injection from each vial. Or if you are really anal retentive you get 5.5 haha. Getting that last 0.1 ml takes a little effort in that you have to pull the needle out almost all the way out of the vial to ensure you have some static head above the needle tip. Having a 10 ml vial makes all this much less hassle but oh well.

How much are you paying per vial?

Usually the 10 ml vials are more cost effective but like you say is it luck of the draw at pharmacy if you go in network route. Sometimes I don't feel like arguing so this 1 ml experience has been actually fun and now I can help you.

I have used 25, 27, 28, 29, 30 g needles (even the 30 g fill time ain't that bad) and currently use a 29 g insulin pin either VG or high DG. With my bf level that is probably swallow IM.

I've tried shoulder, abdomen, quads but the VG/DG is my preference. Takes a little thoracic flexibility though.

 

[Deleted member 16042]

I finally got my prescription. It's 200 mg/ml, 1 ml vial, but I assume I can easily draw 0.2 ml (40 mg) twice a week and with luck it should last me 2 weeks, allowing me to build my rainy day stock (thanks @readalot)

This is the one I got this morning.
View attachment 32856

Any advise regarding how to best make use of this particular product would be appreciated.

I plan to deliver it sub-cutaneously (SQ) using 0.5 ml 31G syringes. Is this too small? Any techniques anyone wants to share based on experience?
View attachment 32857
My goal is to inject it in the love handles (lots of fat there). Would the belly be preferable?

Again, I'd really appreciate any advice on how to start my TRT journey the best way possible. Most of my experience has been with hCG and Enclomiphene, which I'm happy to share, but TRT is completely new (and I must confess a bit scary) to me.

Cheers

Your picture shows T cyp 1ml with benzyl alcohol and benzoate. If that is what you actually have, you have no worries about drawing multiple doses as needed

 

[aneuman]

Fantastic posts Brother.

Yes that is what I am working my way through currently (200mg / 1 ml vials). These vials typically have 1.1 to 1.15 ml per vial so you should easily be able to get 5 injections at 0.2 ml per injection from each vial. Or if you are really anal retentive you get 5.5 haha. Getting that last 0.1 ml takes a little effort in that you have to pull the needle out almost all the way out of the vial to ensure you have some static head above the needle tip. Having a 10 ml vial makes all this much less hassle but oh well.

Wow, that's a relief. And I may try to get that 5.5 (I could be anal sometimes...) simply because of the challenge.

How much are you paying per vial?

I paid $70.50 for 10 vials like the ones I posted earlier (Prerrigo 200 mg/1ml - single use) so I guess it does down to $7.05 per vial. Which conservatively makes the treatment cost about $3.50/week or $182 a year, which is the average cost of 1 month HCG (10 000 IU). Not bad I'd say

Would you say that's expensive, expected?
Are there any cheaper routes?

Usually the 10 ml vials are more cost effective but like you say is it luck of the draw at pharmacy if you go in network route. Sometimes I don't feel like arguing so this 1 ml experience has been actually fun and now I can help you.

That's great! And I really appreciate it.

I have used 25, 27, 28, 29, 30 g needles (even the 30 g fill time ain't that bad) and currently use a 29 g insulin pin either VG or high DG. With my bf level that is probably swallow IM.

I currently have available 18G, 21G, 27G and 31G. I'd very much prefer 31G if possible, but I'm not sure about the draw time. I hope I don't have to wake up at 5:00 am to start drawing so I can leave at 8 am for work :-D

I've tried shoulder, abdomen, quads but the VG/DG is my preference. Takes a little thoracic flexibility though.

I guess I'd start abdomen first, Its I'm more used to it because of the hCG and play it by ear.

I'm really excited about this journey, but a little apprehensive also. My previous journey of hCG and enclomiphene brought me to fantastic enviable numbers, which caused a big improve in mood and optimism, but the sexual part of life, although also improved, was not what I was expecting.

My biggest concerns are with side effects. I do have BPH, and hCG did wonders for it. I stopped all medications and was peeing like 20 years ago. It's a question mark whether T.Cyp will make this better or worse. I'm also concerned about hematocrits, which I see a lot of people here struggling with it. But will see.

That's a lot @readalot and @Cataceous, I truly value your opinions and learn a lot from your posts.

 

[Cataceous]

I like 31 gauge needles, but don't like the slow manual draw with oil-based solutions. The answer is a quick-and-dirty auto-loader. You only need a piece of wire to suspend the vial and a piece of wood or plastic to keep the plunger in the desired position. This way you can do something else while the syringe loads.

 

[tareload]

I like 31 gauge needles, but don't like the slow manual draw with oil-based solutions. The answer is a quick-and-dirty auto-loader. You only need a piece of wire to suspend the vial and a piece of wood or plastic to keep the plunger in the desired position. This way you can do something else while the syringe loads.

And folks that is just another reason (of many) why Cataceous is the man. I like to watch each drop of that precious oil drip into my barrel while making myself hold still.

 

[aneuman]

And folks that is just another reason (of many) why Cataceous is the man. I like to watch each drop of that precious oil drip into my barrel while making myself hold still.

View attachment 32859

Totally agree!

 

[Coopsdaddy]

Delts=painless with insulin needle

 

[aneuman]

Delts=painless with insulin needle

One question, is this Sub-q, IM or shallow IM?

 

[Coopsdaddy]

IM

 

[aneuman]

To all of you knowledgeable people of this forum, I have one question. I just started TRT, had my first SQ injection on Saturday, 40 mg Testosterone Cypionate (200mg/ml), on a bi-weekly schedule, 80 mg/week total.

All my prior experience has been with HCG and enclomiphene (all possible combinations and schedules for 1.5 years). I never noticed any sudden change or anything, in any aspect, but mood was the one thing I did notice a marked improvement relative soon, much less negative, more accepting and empathetic. The one exception was HCG (2000 IU /week) the first couple of weeks, which was fantastic. But we all know about those HCG miracles and how long they last.

What's a reasonable expectation, for those of you who have been on therapeutic dosages on a weekly or biweekly schedule regarding when should I start feeling any effects and which areas are more noticeable. And big differences in effect in IM vs SQ?

I found this study, would be interested in knowing if your experience match their results.

Effects on sexual interest appear after 3 weeks plateauing at 6 weeks, with no further increments expected beyond. Changes in erections/ejaculations may require up to 6 months. Effects on quality of life manifest within 3–4 weeks, but maximum benefits take longer. Effects on depressive mood become detectable after 3–6 weeks with a maximum after 18–30 weeks. Effects on erythropoiesis are evident at 3 months, peaking at 9–12 months. Prostate-specific antigen and volume rise, marginally, plateauing at 12 months; further increase should be related to aging rather than therapy. Effects on lipids appear after 4 weeks, maximal after 6–12 months. Insulin sensitivity may improve within few days, but effects on glycemic control become evident only after 3–12 months. Changes in fat mass, lean body mass, and muscle strength occur within 12–16 weeks, stabilize at 6–12 months, but can marginally continue over years. Effects on inflammation occur within 3–12 weeks. Effects on bone are detectable already after 6 months while continuing at least for 3 years.

One thing I can tell you, when I stopped HCG prior to starting TRT I immediately felt like hell: anxiety, bad mood, negativity, insomnia...

Thanks to all of you who take the time to read this, and twice that to those who take the time to respond with your personal anecdotes., which are all well received.

 

[rimster]

To all of you knowledgeable people of this forum, I have one question. I just started TRT, had my first SQ injection on Saturday, 40 mg Testosterone Cypionate (200mg/ml), on a bi-weekly schedule, 80 mg/week total.

All my prior experience has been with HCG and enclomiphene (all possible combinations and schedules for 1.5 years). I never noticed any sudden change or anything, in any aspect, but mood was the one thing I did notice a marked improvement relative soon, much less negative, more accepting and empathetic. The one exception was HCG (2000 IU /week) the first couple of weeks, which was fantastic. But we all know about those HCG miracles and how long they last.

What's a reasonable expectation, for those of you who have been on therapeutic dosages on a weekly or biweekly schedule regarding when should I start feeling any effects and which areas are more noticeable. And big differences in effect in IM vs SQ?

I found this study, would be interested in knowing if your experience match their results.



One thing I can tell you, when I stopped HCG prior to starting TRT I immediately felt like hell: anxiety, bad mood, negativity, insomnia...

Thanks to all of you who take the time to read this, and twice that to those who take the time to respond with your personal anecdotes., which are all well received.

When i started trt i immediately felt better. But i had a tt of 150 which was causing fatigue and ed issues . The first month was the honeymoon . Now my fatigue is gone which I'm grateful for. My problem is penile sensitivity. That's my experience but alot of guys say it takes six weeks before they notice anything . Just remember that you might enter your honeymoon stage in the beginning which you shouldn't expect that it will continue forever. Good luck!

 

[aneuman]

When i started trt i immediately felt better. But i had a tt of 150 which was causing fatigue and ed issues . The first month was the honeymoon . Now my fatigue is gone which I'm grateful for. My problem is penile sensitivity. That's my experience but alot of guys say it takes six weeks before they notice anything . Just remember that you might enter your honeymoon stage in the beginning which you shouldn't expect that it will continue forever. Good luck!

Thanks @rimster for taking the time.

When you say "i immediately felt better", you meant, an hour after injection, a day, a week, a month? I always heard (since my young days) that when people used testosterone they "immediately" felt better, like superman; perhaps those anecdotes are for people taking supra physiological dosages.

On the other hand, I agree with you, coming from 150 ng/dL the change should be noticeable. I'm on the opposite end. I was at 788 ng/dL (hCG mono) but my free test was extremely low (7 ng/dL) with a relatively high SHBG (54 nmol/L). My mood and general well-being was generally improved and I felt pretty good, but sexually, just like you, penile sensitivity, libido, arousal and orgasm are definitely not where I need them to be.

6 weeks seems reasonable (although it feels like an eternity). I started with a low dosage (2 x 40mg a week of T.Cyp) so my serum average now may be even lower than what my body was used to before (800-700) but I expect if the free T goes up, I can notice some improvements.

My Dr. said that there's no evidence (his words were "there are no studies that say") that free T has anything to do with symptom resolution, that we should look at total T. But I've listened to Dr. Abraham Morgentaler say that in some cases, people have normal or even high total T, with low free T and are symptomatic, and even though most doctors won't prescribe TRT to these patients, he would, and in his experience, that resolves the issues in 80% of the cases.

For the last 6 months, my average total T has been 770 ng/dl while my average free T has been 7 ng/dl (0.9%). Both HCG and enclomiphene work extremely well on me in raising total T, but it seems SHBG has a way to track it and nullify it. Only once I had free T of 13.8 ng/dl and it was with a total T of 1183 ng/dL, but soon after SHBG caught up and brought it down to 8 ng/dL even with a total T of 1050 ng/dL. I've tried Boron, Zinc and all the magical herbs on Amazon to no avail.

I'd love to hear if @Cataceous or @readalot have something to say about this and if my expectation has any foundation.

Thanks a lot for your comments and congrats on your success. BTW, what is your dosage? Have you tried reducing it to see if it helps?

 

[rimster]

Thanks @rimster for taking the time.

When you say "i immediately felt better", you meant, an hour after injection, a day, a week, a month? I always heard (since my young days) that when people used testosterone they "immediately" felt better, like superman; perhaps those anecdotes are for people taking supra physiological dosages.

On the other hand, I agree with you, coming from 150 ng/dL the change should be noticeable. I'm on the opposite end. I was at 788 ng/dL (hCG mono) but my free test was extremely low (7 ng/dL) with a relatively high SHBG (54 nmol/L). My mood and general well-being was generally improved and I felt pretty good, but sexually, just like you, penile sensitivity, libido, arousal and orgasm are definitely not where I need them to be.

6 weeks seems reasonable (although it feels like an eternity). I started with a low dosage (2 x 40mg a week of T.Cyp) so my serum average now may be even lower than what my body was used to before (800-700) but I expect if the free T goes up, I can notice some improvements.

My Dr. said that there's no evidence (his words were "there are no studies that say") that free T has anything to do with symptom resolution, that we should look at total T. But I've listened to Dr. Abraham Morgentaler say that in some cases, people have normal or even high total T, with low free T and are symptomatic, and even though most doctors won't prescribe TRT to these patients, he would, and in his experience, that resolves the issues in 80% of the cases.

For the last 6 months, my average total T has been 770 ng/dl while my average free T has been 7 ng/dl (0.9%). Both HCG and enclomiphene work extremely well on me in raising total T, but it seems SHBG has a way to track it and nullify it. Only once I had free T of 13.8 ng/dl and it was with a total T of 1183 ng/dL, but soon after SHBG caught up and brought it down to 8 ng/dL even with a total T of 1050 ng/dL. I've tried Boron, Zinc and all the magical herbs on Amazon to no avail.

I'd love to hear if @Cataceous or @readalot have something to say about this and if my expectation has any foundation.

Thanks a lot for your comments and congrats on your success. BTW, what is your dosage? Have you tried reducing it to see if it helps?

By immediately i meant a half hour. So i first started with a high dose by defy of 200 mg split three times a week. I then noticed that my symptoms returned after two days and i felt horrible till the next shot. I tried injecting the dose every other day but still was feeling horrible till next shot. Based on the wise people in this forum i concluded i needed daily so i split my dose into daily injections. ( I wish i didn't need to do daily it's very annoying but that's my body) . After a few months doing well i read here again that 200 might be unnecessary. So i gradually tapered down over a couple of months to 16 mg daily which is almost half of what i was taking and i still feel great. ( Besides the sensitivity and ed issues which are on and off)

 

[rimster]

By immediately i meant a half hour. So i first started with a high dose by defy of 200 mg split three times a week. I then noticed that my symptoms returned after two days and i felt horrible till the next shot. I tried injecting the dose every other day but still was feeling horrible till next shot. Based on the wise people in this forum i concluded i needed daily so i split my dose into daily injections. ( I wish i didn't need to do daily it's very annoying but that's my body) . After a few months doing well i read here again that 200 might be unnecessary. So i gradually tapered down over a couple of months to 16 mg daily which is almost half of what i was taking and i still feel great. ( Besides the sensitivity and ed issues which are on and off)

My sensitivity and ed issues were there even when i was on the high dose of 200 mg per week so that had no effect.( Besides the first month of the honeymoon when everything was amazing! Oh i wish we can stay there forever! ) I tried tapering down till 84 mg a week but i got bad Ed so i went back to 112 where i am currently. I wish you the best of luck