Need Help- New to TRT

[braketest2]

An AI has told you that you astaxanthin does not affect libido negatively -- real people have told you that it does. Perhaps you should try the 12 mg daily that you proposed, and see what happens. At the very least, you'll learn something about where to put your trust.

Thanks again! Real people should always be heard experience and wisdom wins the day!

 

[braketest2]

Harmonized reference range for TT 264-916 ng/dL, look over post #7 of the thread I posted at the end of my reply.

You were hitting a high trough TT 920 ng/dL.

This is trough (lowest point) before your next injection we are talking about here not peak which is going to be higher!

070001: Testosterone, Total, Women, Children, and Hypogonadal Males, LC/MS-MS

Labcorp test details for Testosterone, Total, Women, Children, and Hypogonadal Males, LC/MS-MS

www.labcorp.com

View attachment 56730
View attachment 56731




The most accurate assay for testing the most critical fraction free testosterone is the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis.

I calculated your FT using the go to linear law-of-mass action Vermeulen which is the next best testing method and most widely used which will give a good approximation.

The calculator is available online for free to the general public.

If we plug in your high trough TT 920 ng/dL, normalish SHBG 36 nmol/L and Albumin 4.3 g/dL (default) then your high-end trough cFTV 20.9 ng/dL would be close to the top-end of the reference range for cFTV which is 6.5-25 ng/dL.

View attachment 56728

Free & Bioavailable Testosterone calculator

View attachment 56729


Again you were hitting a high trough TT 920 ng/dL and more importantly high-end trough FT 20.9 ng/dL 3 weeks in.

If you had waited until blood levels stabilized and tested 6 weeks in then your trough TT/FT and DHT would have been higher.

There was absolutely no need to increase your dose!

Again.

Too many caught up on that more T is better mentality bulls**t!

Always need to be mindful of your injection frequency/where trough FT sits.

FT <5 ng/dL would be considerd low.

FT 5-9 ng/dL would be considered the grey zone where some men may experience symptoms of low-T.

FT 10-15 ng/dL would be healthy.

FT 20-25 ng/dL would be high-end/high!

The majority of men will do well with a trough FT 15-25 ng/dL depending on the injection frequency.

Need to keep in mind that there is a big difference between one running a high-end/high trough FT 20-25 ng/dL injecting daily vs twice-weekly vs once weekly.

Also going to be a big difference in peak--->trough on said protocol!

Many tend to overlook this and gun for a high-end/high trough FT only to end up struggling with sides especilly in the long run.

Just to put this in perspective most healthy young males would be hitting a cFTV 13-15 ng/dL or 10-12 ng/dL tested using the most accurate assay the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis and this is a short-lived daily peak to boot!

Even if you take those natty outliers in the 97.5 th percentile hitting a high FT 25 ng/dL again this is a short-lived daily peak to boot!

You have guys on T hitting a trough FT 25-30+ ng/dL injecting daily with FT elevated 24/7, EOD as in every 2 days (48 hrs post-injection),twice-weekly as in every 3.5 days (84 hrs post-injection) or once weekly as in 7 days post-injection.

Hopefully you get the point.

Look over post 1 and 7 from this thread!

It will open your eyes!

Crystal clear!


post #1/7

Thread 'Largest dataset of mFT levels to date: male reference ranges spanning a wide age range, using a gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis LC-MS/MS method'

Mar 14, 2026

Sit and dwell on that!

Think of all those overmedicated men on T-therapy gassed up on FT well beyond their natty genetic set-point and unfortunately many off them off the hop!

You can blame all those run of the mill T clinics, kiddie forums loaded with all those numbskulls, throw those blast n cruisers in there too and put the icing on the cake the cesspool of so called gurus polluting gootube!

Gotta love all those kiddie forums loaded with the brainwashed sheep still pushing that more T is better mentality dishing out piss poor advice!

So much misinformation littered on the net its...

• madman
• hypogonadism; ft; refernce ranges; assays
• Replies: 8
• Forum: Testosterone and Men's Health Articles

• 

Post in thread 'Microdosing Enanthate'

Jan 8, 2022

Face validity for the CDC test is very low considering it’s generally accepted that sex hormones peak in late adolescence.

It is also known that reference ranges have been consistently titrated downward to reflect what is normal for our population. As our population has become ‘bigger’, these ranges have been shifted downward reflect what is normal for people who are less lean and have a higher BMI. As such, our norm or mean has shifted downward, not necessarily reflecting what is optimal but perhaps reflecting simply what is normal for a ‘less lean’...

• madman

• 

Good afternoon madman! I am sitting wondering if I dare ask another question but I guess I will. I will return to the 100mg dose for six weeks but if you recall, I pushed my E2 to 50 while on 1x per week somewhere in the 8 week range. I'm not sure how your projection would have estimated this on 2x per week. Would I be better off or worse you think on 100mg 2x per or 3x per week? Just an opinion before I commit to the new protocol. Did you think I was a fast aromatizer at 100mg 1x per week? Thanks!

 

[madman]

Good afternoon madman! I am sitting wondering if I dare ask another question but I guess I will. I will return to the 100mg dose for six weeks but if you recall, I pushed my E2 to 50 while on 1x per week somewhere in the 8 week range. I'm not sure how your projection would have estimated this on 2x per week. Would I be better off or worse you think on 100mg 2x per or 3x per week? Just an opinion before I commit to the new protocol. Did you think I was a fast aromatizer at 100mg 1x per week? Thanks!

Just stick with the 2x weekly protocol for now as you will be clipping the peak--->trough and blood levels will be more stable throughout the week.

Dampening the spikes and smoothing out levels throughout the week will help.

This is where injecting more frequently shines!

There will be lots of time to try injecting more frequently if need be.

High aromatizers would tend to be men with excess adipose especially visceral fat or impaired liver function which can slow estrogen clearance.

Most men that end up struggling with elevated e2 are most likely carrying a lot of adipose or are genetically high aromatizers.

* The rates of conversion of testosterone to DHT and E2 vary among people due to polymorphisms of genes that encode the steroid 5α reductases and the aromatase enzyme as well as other host-specific factors that affect the activity of these enzymes

Thread 'Higher Estradiol, T and DHT correlated to higher libido in older hypogonadal men than T alone'

Feb 10, 2022

Relation of Testosterone, Dihydrotestosterone, and Estradiol with Changes in Outcomes Measures in the Testosterone Trials (2022)
Alisa J. Stephens-Shields, PhD, Peter J. Snyder, MD, Susan S. Ellenberg, PhD, Lynne Taylor, PhD, Shalender Bhasin, MB, BS


Abstract

Context. Many effects of testosterone are mediated through dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and estradiol. The relative contributions of each hormone to the observed effects of testosterone remain incompletely understood.

Methods. Using data from the Testosterone Trials, we assessed the association of...

• madman
• testosterone; estradiol; dht; response tth
• Replies: 16
• Forum: Testosterone and Men's Health Articles

• 

*Circulating testosterone is converted in many peripheral tissues to its two active metabolites, 5α dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and 17β estradiol (E2)

*In many androgen-responsive tissues, a family of steroid 5α reductase enzymes converts testosterone to DHT, and the aromatase enzyme, a product of the CYP19A1 gene, converts it to E2

*Many tissue-specific biologic effects of testosterone are mediated through DHT and E2

*The rates of conversion of testosterone to DHT and E2 vary among people due to polymorphisms of genes that encode the steroid 5α reductases and the aromatase enzyme as well as other host-specific factors that affect the activity of these enzymes

*It is not known how the circulating concentrations of testosterone’s metabolites – DHT and E2 – modulate the effects of testosterone on various outcomes and how their circulating levels rank in their contribution to the observed effects of testosterone treatment on physiologic outcomes

 

[braketest2]

Just stick with the 2x weekly protocol for now as you will be clipping the peak--->trough and blood levels will be more stable throughout the week.

Dampening the spikes and smoothing out levels throughout the week will help.

This is where injecting more frequently shines!

There will be lots of time to try injecting more frequently if need be.

High aromatizers would tend to be men with excess adipose especially visceral fat or impaired liver function which can slow estrogen clearance.

Most men that end up struggling with elevated e2 are most likely carrying a lot of adipose or are genetically high aromatizers.

* The rates of conversion of testosterone to DHT and E2 vary among people due to polymorphisms of genes that encode the steroid 5α reductases and the aromatase enzyme as well as other host-specific factors that affect the activity of these enzymes

Thread 'Higher Estradiol, T and DHT correlated to higher libido in older hypogonadal men than T alone'

Feb 10, 2022

Relation of Testosterone, Dihydrotestosterone, and Estradiol with Changes in Outcomes Measures in the Testosterone Trials (2022)
Alisa J. Stephens-Shields, PhD, Peter J. Snyder, MD, Susan S. Ellenberg, PhD, Lynne Taylor, PhD, Shalender Bhasin, MB, BS


Abstract

Context. Many effects of testosterone are mediated through dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and estradiol. The relative contributions of each hormone to the observed effects of testosterone remain incompletely understood.

Methods. Using data from the Testosterone Trials, we assessed the association of...

• madman
• testosterone; estradiol; dht; response tth
• Replies: 16
• Forum: Testosterone and Men's Health Articles

• 

*Circulating testosterone is converted in many peripheral tissues to its two active metabolites, 5α dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and 17β estradiol (E2)

*In many androgen-responsive tissues, a family of steroid 5α reductase enzymes converts testosterone to DHT, and the aromatase enzyme, a product of the CYP19A1 gene, converts it to E2

*Many tissue-specific biologic effects of testosterone are mediated through DHT and E2

*The rates of conversion of testosterone to DHT and E2 vary among people due to polymorphisms of genes that encode the steroid 5α reductases and the aromatase enzyme as well as other host-specific factors that affect the activity of these enzymes

*It is not known how the circulating concentrations of testosterone’s metabolites – DHT and E2 – modulate the effects of testosterone on various outcomes and how their circulating levels rank in their contribution to the observed effects of testosterone treatment on physiologic outcomes

Aye aye Captain! It all makes sense! I do believe with my short history I am Estradiol sensitive and Anastrazole is best kept at a distance no matter who you are if possible. I have struggled the whole time with erect nipples and keeping the wife happy but the morning wood is alaways there. No other symptoms of high E2 but then again after the crash I have no idea where my E2 sits. All this and I am on a daily 5mg Cialis for BPH and it doesn't last. This is a symptom of E2 being a little high is it not? And a reason I went to 3X per week.

 

[braketest2]

Just stick with the 2x weekly protocol for now as you will be clipping the peak--->trough and blood levels will be more stable throughout the week.

Dampening the spikes and smoothing out levels throughout the week will help.

This is where injecting more frequently shines!

There will be lots of time to try injecting more frequently if need be.

High aromatizers would tend to be men with excess adipose especially visceral fat or impaired liver function which can slow estrogen clearance.

Most men that end up struggling with elevated e2 are most likely carrying a lot of adipose or are genetically high aromatizers.

* The rates of conversion of testosterone to DHT and E2 vary among people due to polymorphisms of genes that encode the steroid 5α reductases and the aromatase enzyme as well as other host-specific factors that affect the activity of these enzymes

Thread 'Higher Estradiol, T and DHT correlated to higher libido in older hypogonadal men than T alone'

Feb 10, 2022

Relation of Testosterone, Dihydrotestosterone, and Estradiol with Changes in Outcomes Measures in the Testosterone Trials (2022)
Alisa J. Stephens-Shields, PhD, Peter J. Snyder, MD, Susan S. Ellenberg, PhD, Lynne Taylor, PhD, Shalender Bhasin, MB, BS


Abstract

Context. Many effects of testosterone are mediated through dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and estradiol. The relative contributions of each hormone to the observed effects of testosterone remain incompletely understood.

Methods. Using data from the Testosterone Trials, we assessed the association of...

• madman
• testosterone; estradiol; dht; response tth
• Replies: 16
• Forum: Testosterone and Men's Health Articles

• 

*Circulating testosterone is converted in many peripheral tissues to its two active metabolites, 5α dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and 17β estradiol (E2)

*In many androgen-responsive tissues, a family of steroid 5α reductase enzymes converts testosterone to DHT, and the aromatase enzyme, a product of the CYP19A1 gene, converts it to E2

*Many tissue-specific biologic effects of testosterone are mediated through DHT and E2

*The rates of conversion of testosterone to DHT and E2 vary among people due to polymorphisms of genes that encode the steroid 5α reductases and the aromatase enzyme as well as other host-specific factors that affect the activity of these enzymes

*It is not known how the circulating concentrations of testosterone’s metabolites – DHT and E2 – modulate the effects of testosterone on various outcomes and how their circulating levels rank in their contribution to the observed effects of testosterone treatment on physiologic outcomes

Good Afternoon madman!

I am touching base if that's alright. I am two weeks into dropping back down from 140mg 3x per week to 100mg 2x per week. I am just wondering if dropping 40 percent I should feel like I do. I am taking 25mg DHEA in the morning and 3mg melatonin at night. I am sleeping better than I had been butI am somewhat of a moody SOB and have felt little in the libido dept. Morning stuff is there but indiference seems to be the order of the day since switching. Seem normal given the drop??? Thanks if you care to answer.

 

[madman]

Good Afternoon madman!

I am touching base if that's alright. I am two weeks into dropping back down from 140mg 3x per week to 100mg 2x per week. I am just wondering if dropping 40 percent I should feel like I do. I am taking 25mg DHEA in the morning and 3mg melatonin at night. I am sleeping better than I had been butI am somewhat of a moody SOB and have felt little in the libido dept. Morning stuff is there but indiference seems to be the order of the day since switching. Seem normal given the drop??? Thanks if you care to answer.

I am two weeks into dropping back down from 140mg 3x per week to 100mg 2x per week. I am just wondering if dropping 40 percent I should feel like I do.


Hope you meant 40 mg not % as it would be 28.6 %.

Yes it's normal and expected for one to experience downs/bumps along the way when decreasing your dose of T as your hormones will be in flux during the weeks leading up until blood levels stabilize (4-6 weeks TC/TE) and the body is trying to adjust.

This is expected and means nothing when looking at the big picture here.

This is why starting low and going slow is key here as it will always be much easier going up then having to come down.

Again once steady-state is achieved and your. blood levels have stabilized it will still take the body time as in a few more months to adapt to its new set-point and this is the critical time period when one need to gauge how they truly feel overall.

How you feel 6 weeks is misleading.

Once labs are done 6 weeks in to get a snapshot of where said protocol (dose T/injection frequency) has your trough TT and more importantly FT and estradiol as long as you are hitting a healthy trough FT then you need to give the protocol a fighting chance as in a few more months for your body to adapt to its new set-point.

Otherwise you will get caught up on that never ending merry go round twerking your protocol left and right because you do not feel well off the hop.

This is where many make the grave mistake and end up ncrease their dose every 6 weeks only to end up struggling in the long run run!

If you truly understand how exogenous T works then patience is key here!

 

[braketest2]

I am two weeks into dropping back down from 140mg 3x per week to 100mg 2x per week. I am just wondering if dropping 40 percent I should feel like I do.


Hope you meant 40 mg not % as it would be 28.6 %.

Yes it's normal and expected for one to experience downs/bumps along the way when decreasing your dose of T as your hormones will be in flux during the weeks leading up until blood levels stabilize (4-6 weeks TC/TE) and the body is trying to adjust.

This is expected and means nothing when looking at the big picture here.

This is why starting low and going slow is key here as it will always be much easier going up then having to come down.

Again once steady-state is achieved and your. blood levels have stabilized it will still take the body time as in a few more months to adapt to its new set-point and this is the critical time period when one need to gauge how they truly feel overall.

How you feel 6 weeks is misleading.

Once labs are done 6 weeks in to get a snapshot of where said protocol (dose T/injection frequency) has your trough TT and more importantly FT and estradiol as long as you are hitting a healthy trough FT then you need to give the protocol a fighting chance as in a few more months for your body to adapt to its new set-point.

Otherwise you will get caught up on that never ending merry go round twerking your protocol left and right because you do not feel well off the hop.

This is where many make the grave mistake and end up ncrease their dose every 6 weeks only to end up struggling in the long run run!

If you truly understand how exogenous T works then patience is key here!

I was injecting 140mg split into 3 injections as per our fruitful talks. I am now splitting 100mg into 50mg 2x per week (your advice based on the lab #s I have provided). Sorry I am no where near as polished and versed yet and thanks again for the sensible advice!