Need Help- New to TRT

[braketest2]

Yes the smarter move here is sticking with 100 mg T split twice-weekly then have labs done 6 weeks in and everything looks good then give it a few more months before deciding on what tweaks may be needed.

I would think Defy has some good doctors out of the bunch but judging by many of the posts on the forum over the years many of them tend to start patients off on too high a dose and lack the understanding when it comes to testing FT as they were notorious for using/relying on the known to be inaccurate direct IA (CLIA/RIA).

The only way to know where your FT truly sits would be having its tested using the most accurate assay the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis especially in cases of altered SHBG.

Otherwise you would need to use/rely on the next best testing method the go to calculated linear law-of-massa action Vermeulen which will give a good approximation.

Critical to know where the most important fraction of T sits at true trough!

When it comes to seeing out sensible advice stick around here and you will be far better off than following the advice given by most GPs let alone most run of those the run of the mill T-clinics and kiddie forums polluting the net!

Too many caught up on that more T is better mentality bulls**t being spewed by all those sheep stinking up the game!

Start low and go slow everything else will fall into place eventually!

Yes, I understand but I will need a provider. I forgot to mention originally that my DHT was on the low side and I had been prescribed 10mg DHEA before bed as I had sleep problems I beleive they upped the dose of Test Cypionate to try and raise DHT and the DHEA for DHEA-s was because I was also on the lower end. This seemed to help with REM sleep. Do you have any opinions? Thanks! My labs are covered by my medicare plan. Does Quest perform the most accurate tests or is it only if written a certain way? I do not pay for Test or labs under my healthcare and my Test was made by Hikma. DHEA-s was 70.8 reference range was 30.8-295.7. My DHT was at 61 a month before this when I was at TT791 FT 14.1 as opposed to the most recent TT920.

 

[madman]

Yes, I understand but I will need a provider. I forgot to mention originally that my DHT was on the low side and I had been prescribed 10mg DHEA before bed as I had sleep problems I beleive they upped the dose of Test Cypionate to try and raise DHT and the DHEA for DHEA-s was because I was also on the lower end. This seemed to help with REM sleep. Do you have any opinions? Thanks! My labs are covered by my medicare plan. Does Quest perform the most accurate tests or is it only if written a certain way? I do not pay for Test or labs under my healthcare and my Test was made by Hikma. DHEA-s was 70.8 reference range was 30.8-295.7. My DHT was at 61 a month before this when I was at TT791 FT 14.1 as opposed to the most recent TT920.

You would most likely be far better off with a urologist well versed in the game.

The goal here would be achieving a healthy DHT level.

You do not need high DHT its a myth.

The sensitivity of the AR to DHT is what truly matters here.

Yes driving up FT will drive up DHT but even then you are not going to get a big boost in DHT on injections.

You would be far better off using transdermal T standard or scrotal application or any of the newer oral TU formulations then increasing your dose of T.

Transdermal T and more importantly scrotal application will have the biggest impact here and even then any of the newer oral TU formulations (Jatenzo, Tlando or Kyzatrex) will have a big impact.

Yes Quest Diagnostics offers the most accurate assays for TT/estradio/DHTl (LC-MS/MS) and free testosterone (Equilibrium Dialysis).

You need to request those through your doctor ordering the tests which will be included on your lab requisition form.



TT/FT

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DHT

DHT Test | Discounted Labs

This test measures the amount of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) in the blood. Low DHT has been associated with low libido and high DHT has been linked to acne, hair loss and benigh prostatic inflammation in a minority of men.

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Quest Diagnostics: Test Directory

testdirectory.questdiagnostics.com

 

[braketest2]

Ok duly noted and much thanks! Finally is DHEA a waste? I take 10mg in the morning and 10mg with 3mg extended release Melatonin and a low dose aspirin before bed just asking your opinion.

 

[madman]

Ok duly noted and much thanks! Finally is DHEA a waste? I take 10mg in the morning and 10mg with 3mg extended release Melatonin and a low dose aspirin before bed just asking your opinion.

It will benefit some especially if your levels are low.

Trial and error is the only way to know here!

 

[braketest2]

It will benefit some especially if your levels are low.

Trial and error is the only way to know here!

You have a great day and hopefully you'll give me your insight a little further down the road. As far as a urologist oh boy, I woudn't know where to start. I can barely keep a GP for six months at a time. I heard of a clinic called Restore Health mostly a PA running things but a more personal approach and I believe trans scrotal cream is offered. Probably much easier to travel with as well!

 

[madman]

You have a great day and hopefully you'll give me your insight a little further down the road. As far as a urologist oh boy, I woudn't know where to start. I can barely keep a GP for six months at a time. I heard of a clinic called Restore Health mostly a PA running things but a more personal approach and I believe trans scrotal cream is offered. Probably much easier to travel with as well!

Not sure if you will end up better off at another T-clinic.

Defy also offers the high-strength compounded transdermal creams/gels.

 

[braketest2]

Not sure if you will end up better off at another T-clinic.

Defy also offers the high-strength compounded transdermal creams/gels.

I guess you are quite positive on the trans scrotal creams then?

 

[madman]

I guess you are quite positive on the trans scrotal creams then?

Would be your best option if you need to bring up your DHT.

Many men are using the trans scrotal T applied once daily or twice daily (morning/evening) and feel great.

Some have struggled on injections and ended up giving the scrotal route a go and never looked back.

There are even some men using low dose injections with transdermal gel/creams to boost DHT.

 

[braketest2]

Would be your best option if you need to bring up your DHT.

Many men are using the trans scrotal T applied once daily or twice daily (morning/evening) and feel great.

Some have struggled on injections and ended up giving the scrotal route a go and never looked back.

There are even some men using low dose injections with transdermal gel/creams to boost DHT.

Thanks, Is my DHT at 61 (labcorp) kinda low? This when TT724 FT 14.1 SHBG 43 8 weeks after starting TRT 100mg 1x per week. Numbers really started upwards on 2x per week. At 12 weeks and 100mg 2x per week TT924 FT 17.1 SHBG 36 E2 ultra after AI 7.4 DHEA-s 70.8 and I promise to leave you alone for 6 weeks but thanks ever so much. lol

 

[madman]

Thanks, Is my DHT at 61 (labcorp) kinda low? This when TT724 FT 14.1 SHBG 43 8 weeks after starting TRT 100mg 1x per week. Numbers really started upwards on 2x per week. At 12 weeks and 100mg 2x per week TT924 FT 17.1 SHBG 36 E2 ultra after AI 7.4 DHEA-s 70.8 and I promise to leave you alone for 6 weeks but thanks ever so much. lol

Was it tested using the most accurate assay LC-MS/MS and what is the reference range?

You would have needed to reach steady-state before getting labs on the 100 mg T/week split twice-weekly in order to know here it truly sat.

You tested 3 weeks in which had. you hitting a high trough TT 920 ng/dL and more importantly high-end cFTV 20.9 ng/dL.

Your trough TT/FT and DHT would have been higher if you had tested at the 6 week mark.

 

[braketest2]

Was it tested using the most accurate assay LC-MS/MS and what is the reference range?

You would have needed to reach steady-state before getting labs on the 100 mg T/week split twice-weekly in order to know here it truly sat.

You tested 3 weeks in which had. you hitting a high trough TT 920 ng/dL and more importantly high-end cFTV 20.9 ng/dL.

Your trough TT/FT and DHT would have been higher if you had tested at the 6 week mark.

LC-MS/MS in regards to DHT? There is no breakdown just a reference range of 30-85 61 DHT was recorded 7 weeks in on 100mg 1X per week Defy did not bother to test my DHT but they had my labs.m The only time I ever saw LC/MS was when Quest did an E2 ultra it came back at 50 a couple weeks after the 724TT my test after 7 weeks in the beginning. 100mg 1x per week.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Also I have floaters in my eyes and would like to try 12mg Astaxanthin but have read this can kill libido and DHT

Yes it will absolutely do this, beware.

 

[madman]

LC-MS/MS in regards to DHT? There is no breakdown just a reference range of 30-85 61 DHT was recorded 7 weeks in on 100mg 1X per week Defy did not bother to test my DHT but they had my labs.m The only time I ever saw LC/MS was when Quest did an E2 ultra it came back at 50 a couple weeks after the 724TT my test after 7 weeks in the beginning. 100mg 1x per week.

If it was tested using the most accurate assay it would be this one which should have reference range 30-85 ng/dL.

500142: Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) (Endocrine Sciences)

Labcorp test details for Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) (Endocrine Sciences)

www.labcorp.com

Loading…

specialtytesting.labcorp.com

You trough DHT was sitting at 61 ng/dL which is not too low as it is mid-range and this is when you were hitting a trough TT 794 ng/dL.

When you switched over to the 100 mg T/week split twice-weekly which had you hitting a high trough TT 920 ng/dL three weeks in your trough DHT would have been higher but again in order to know where it truly sat you would need to have had your blood work done 6 weeks in once steady-state was achieved.

I would just stick with the 100 mg T/week split twice-weekly and when you get labs done 6 weeks in test your trough DHT to see where it truly sits.

 

[braketest2]

Yes it will absolutely do this, beware.

Effects of Astaxanthin on Libido and DHT​

Libido​

Astaxanthin does not kill libido. In fact, it has been shown to help maintain testosterone levels, which can support sexual health. By promoting healthy testosterone levels, astaxanthin may actually contribute positively to libido rather than diminish it. I have seen that it can lower DHT a positive in some cases with hair loss but what if your DHT is low..... hmmmmmm

 

[braketest2]

If it was tested using the most accurate assay it would be this one which should have reference range 30-85 ng/dL.

500142: Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) (Endocrine Sciences)

Labcorp test details for Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) (Endocrine Sciences)

www.labcorp.com

Loading…

specialtytesting.labcorp.com

View attachment 56722
View attachment 56723




You trough DHT was sitting at 61 ng/dL which is not too low as it is mid-range and this is when you were hitting a trough TT 794 ng/dL.

When you switched over to the 100 mg T/week split twice-weekly which had you hitting a high trough TT 920 ng/dL three weeks in your trough DHT would have been higher but again in order to know where it truly sat you would need to have had your blood work done 6 weeks in once steady-state was achieved.

I would just stick with the 100 mg T/week split twice-weekly and when you get labs done 6 weeks in test your trough DHT to see where it truly sits.

If I were to return to 100mg and I'm leaning that way as all your advice seems to make sense, can I expect my body to post silmilar numbers after settling in or does using the higher dose change our reactions permanently? Also, I was due for an injection on Monday on my 3x 120mg dose can I just wait till Tuesday and return to 2x per week on Tuesday and Friday?

 

[madman]

If I were to return to 100mg and I'm leaning that way as all your advice seems to make sense, can I expect my body to post silmilar numbers after settling in or does using the higher dose change our reactions permanently? Also, I was due for an injection on Monday on my 3x 120mg dose can I just wait till Tuesday and return to 2x per week on Tuesday and Friday?

Keep in mind when you had your blood work done on the 100 mg T/week split twice-weekly you had it done 3 weeks in so you had not achieved steady-state yet and you were already hitting a high trough TT 920 ng/dL and more importantly high-end cFTV 20.9 ng/dL.

If you had waited 6 weeks for blood levels to stabilize then your trough TT/FT and DHT would have been higher.

Once you drop your dose back down to 100 mg/week split and get labs done 6 weeks later your trough TT/FT and DHT will be higher.

Yes you can just wait and inject 50 mg Tuesday and 50 mg Friday.

 

[braketest2]

Keep in mind when you had your blood work done on the 100 mg T/week split twice-weekly you had blood work done 3 weeks in so you had not achieved steady-state yet and you were already hitting a high trough TT 920 ng/dL and more importantly high-end cFTV 20.9 ng/dL.

If you had waited 6 weeks for blood levels to stabilize then your trough TT/FT and DHT would have been higher.

Once you drop your dose back down to 100 mg/week split and get labs done 6 weeks later your trough TT/FT and DHT will be higher.

Yes you can just wait and inject 50 mg Tuesday and 50 mg Friday.

I have taken up a bit of your time today more than I could expect. Even I got wrapped up in a higher dose although as you have clearly stated 920TT was already pretty high in the range on 100mg. I am not clear on this number and where it's coming from high-end cFTV 20.9 ng/dL the highest I've seen my free T was 17..

 

[madman]

I have taken up a bit of your time today more than I could expect. Even I got wrapped up in a higher dose although as you have clearly stated 920TT was already pretty high in the range on 100mg. I am not clear on this number and where it's coming from high-end cFTV 20.9 ng/dL.

Harmonized reference range for TT 264-916 ng/dL, look over post #7 of the thread I posted at the end of my reply.

You were hitting a high trough TT 920 ng/dL.

This is trough (lowest point) before your next injection we are talking about here not peak which is going to be higher!

070001: Testosterone, Total, Women, Children, and Hypogonadal Males, LC/MS-MS

Labcorp test details for Testosterone, Total, Women, Children, and Hypogonadal Males, LC/MS-MS

www.labcorp.com

The most accurate assay for testing the most critical fraction free testosterone is the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis.

I calculated your FT using the go to linear law-of-mass action Vermeulen which is the next best testing method and most widely used which will give a good approximation.

The calculator is available online for free to the general public.

If we plug in your high trough TT 920 ng/dL, normalish SHBG 36 nmol/L and Albumin 4.3 g/dL (default) then your high-end trough cFTV 20.9 ng/dL would be close to the top-end of the reference range for cFTV which is 6.5-25 ng/dL.

Free & Bioavailable Testosterone calculator

Again you were hitting a high trough TT 920 ng/dL and more importantly high-end trough FT 20.9 ng/dL 3 weeks in.

If you had waited until blood levels stabilized and tested 6 weeks in then your trough TT/FT and DHT would have been higher.

There was absolutely no need to increase your dose!

Again.

Too many caught up on that more T is better mentality bulls**t!

Always need to be mindful of your injection frequency/where trough FT sits.

FT <5 ng/dL would be considerd low.

FT 5-9 ng/dL would be considered the grey zone where some men may experience symptoms of low-T.

FT 10-15 ng/dL would be healthy.

FT 20-25 ng/dL would be high-end/high!

The majority of men will do well with a trough FT 15-25 ng/dL depending on the injection frequency.

Need to keep in mind that there is a big difference between one running a high-end/high trough FT 20-25 ng/dL injecting daily vs twice-weekly vs once weekly.

Also going to be a big difference in peak--->trough on said protocol!

Many tend to overlook this and gun for a high-end/high trough FT only to end up struggling with sides especilly in the long run.

Just to put this in perspective most healthy young males would be hitting a cFTV 13-15 ng/dL or 10-12 ng/dL tested using the most accurate assay the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis and this is a short-lived daily peak to boot!

Even if you take those natty outliers in the 97.5 th percentile hitting a high FT 25 ng/dL again this is a short-lived daily peak to boot!

You have guys on T hitting a trough FT 25-30+ ng/dL injecting daily with FT elevated 24/7, EOD as in every 2 days (48 hrs post-injection),twice-weekly as in every 3.5 days (84 hrs post-injection) or once weekly as in 7 days post-injection.

Hopefully you get the point.

Look over post 1 and 7 from this thread!

It will open your eyes!

Crystal clear!


post #1/7

Thread 'Largest dataset of mFT levels to date: male reference ranges spanning a wide age range, using a gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis LC-MS/MS method'

Mar 14, 2026

Sit and dwell on that!

Think of all those overmedicated men on T-therapy gassed up on FT well beyond their natty genetic set-point and unfortunately many off them off the hop!

You can blame all those run of the mill T clinics, kiddie forums loaded with all those numbskulls, throw those blast n cruisers in there too and put the icing on the cake the cesspool of so called gurus polluting gootube!

Gotta love all those kiddie forums loaded with the brainwashed sheep still pushing that more T is better mentality dishing out piss poor advice!

So much misinformation littered on the net its...

• madman
• hypogonadism; ft; refernce ranges; assays
• Replies: 8
• Forum: Testosterone and Men's Health Articles

• 

Post in thread 'Microdosing Enanthate'

Jan 8, 2022

Face validity for the CDC test is very low considering it’s generally accepted that sex hormones peak in late adolescence.

It is also known that reference ranges have been consistently titrated downward to reflect what is normal for our population. As our population has become ‘bigger’, these ranges have been shifted downward reflect what is normal for people who are less lean and have a higher BMI. As such, our norm or mean has shifted downward, not necessarily reflecting what is optimal but perhaps reflecting simply what is normal for a ‘less lean’...

• madman

• 

 

[braketest2]

Harmonized reference range for TT 264-916 ng/dL, look over post #7 of the thread I posted at the end of my reply.

You were hitting a high trough TT 920 ng/dL.

This is trough (lowest point) before your next injection here not peak which is going to be higher!

070001: Testosterone, Total, Women, Children, and Hypogonadal Males, LC/MS-MS

Labcorp test details for Testosterone, Total, Women, Children, and Hypogonadal Males, LC/MS-MS

www.labcorp.com

View attachment 56727




The most accurate assay for testing the most critical fraction free testosterone is the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis.

I calculated your FT using the go to linear law-of-mass action Vermeulen which is the next best testing method and most widely used which will give a good approximation.

The calculator is available online for free to the general public.

If we plug in your high trough TT 920 ng/dL, normalish SHBG 36 nmol/L and Albumin 4.3 g/dL (default) then your high-end trough cFTV 20.9 ng/dL would be close to the top-end of the reference range for cFTV which is 6.5-25 ng/dL.

View attachment 56728

Free & Bioavailable Testosterone calculator

View attachment 56729


Again you were hitting a high trough TT 920 ng/dL and more importantly high-end trough FT 20.9 ng/dL 3 weeks in.

If you had waited until blood levels stabilized and tested 6 weeks in then your trough TT/FT and DHT would have been higher.

there was absolutely no need to increase your dose!

Again.

Too many caught up on that more T is better mentality bulls**t!

Always need to be mindful of your injection frequency/where trough FT sits.

FT <5 ng/dL would be considerd low.

FT 5-9 ng/dL would be considered the grey zone where some men may experience symptoms of low-T.

FT 10-15 ng/dL would be healthy.

FT 20-25 ng/dL would be high-end/high!

The majority of men will do well with a trough FT 15-25 ng/dL depending on the injection frequency.

Need to keep in mind that there is a big difference between one running a high-end/high trough FT 20-25 ng/dL injecting daily vs twice-weekly vs once weekly.

Also going to be a big difference in peak--->trough on said protocol!

Many tend to overlook this and gun for a high-end/high trough FT only to end up struggling with sides especilly in the long run.

Just to put this in perspective most healthy young males would be hitting a cFTV 13-15 ng/dL or 10-12 ng/dL tested using the most accurate assay the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis and this is a short-lived daily peak to boot!

Even if you take those natty outliers in the 95th percentile hitting a high FT 25 ng/dL again this is a short-lived daily peak to boot!

You have guys on T hitting a trough FT 25-30+ ng/dL injecting daily with FT elevated 24/7, EOD as in every 2 days (48 hrs post-injection),twice-weekly as in every 3.5 days (84 hrs post-injection), once weekly as in 7 days post-injection.

Look over post 1 and 7 from this thread!

It will open your eyes!

Crystal clear!


post #1/7

Thread 'Largest dataset of mFT levels to date: male reference ranges spanning a wide age range, using a gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis LC-MS/MS method'

Mar 14, 2026

Sit and dwell on that!

Think of all those overmedicated men on T-therapy gassed up on FT well beyond their natty genetic set-point and unfortunately many off them off the hop!

You can blame all those run of the mill T clinics, kiddie forums loaded with all those numbskulls, throw those blast n cruisers in there too and put the icing on the cake the cesspool of so called gurus polluting gootube!

Gotta love all those kiddie forums loaded with the brainwashed sheep still pushing that more T is better mentality dishing out piss poor advice!

So much misinformation littered on the net its...

• madman
• hypogonadism; ft; refernce ranges; assays
• Replies: 8
• Forum: Testosterone and Men's Health Articles

• 

Thanks for all the time today madman things seem more clear now. I wish to live a somewhat balanced life going forward and I have felt pretty good at times but inconsistent and no wonder. I wish to avoid HCG and AI at 67. Just hoping these things are really not necessary. I will post labs in a few weeks and hopefully I will be afforded your input then.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Astaxanthin does not kill libido.

An AI has told you that you astaxanthin does not affect libido negatively -- real people have told you that it does. Perhaps you should try the 12 mg daily that you proposed, and see what happens. At the very least, you'll learn something about where to put your trust.