Need fish oil recommendation
- Thread starter kspat
- Start date
maxadvance
Active Member
midlifealpha
Member
If you have a membership to Sam's Club their Sam's Club Simply Right Triple Strength Fish Oil is a top 10 ranked Fish Oil on labdoor. Actually surprisingly the best combination of value and quality is The Vitamin Shoppe Omega-3 Fish Oil.
The Vitamin Shoppe is ranked 5 in quality and 2 in value.
A lot of folks here prefer Ocean Blue Professional Omega-3
Here is the labdoor page:
https://labdoor.com/rankings/fish-oil
The Vitamin Shoppe is ranked 5 in quality and 2 in value.
A lot of folks here prefer Ocean Blue Professional Omega-3
Here is the labdoor page:
https://labdoor.com/rankings/fish-oil
PAUL-E
Member
I might try that next. I use https://www.amazon.com/STRENGTH-Bur...UTF8&qid=1465996727&sr=1-48&keywords=fish+oil
waltkowalski
New Member
I use Nordic Naturals Ultimate Omego
You want deep sea Coldwater fish
Moleculary distilled
Nordic claims to meet us and European manf regulations
Not the cheapest but checks all the boxes I can find for quality
I get it at the Vitamin shoppe
You want deep sea Coldwater fish
Moleculary distilled
Nordic claims to meet us and European manf regulations
Not the cheapest but checks all the boxes I can find for quality
I get it at the Vitamin shoppe
IntelligentLabs
New Member
Hi Pat,
Just wondering if you were in someway unhappy with our omega 3?
The other fish oils mentioned here with the exception of Nordic Naturals are all ethyl ester fish oils
i.e Ocean Blue, Lovaza, Sam's Club, the Vitamin Shop, and Omegavia, (omega via are quite tricky by saying triglyceride reduction on their bottle, but they are an ethyl ester).
We are a natural triglyceride fish oil, as are Nordic Naturals. Triglyceride fish oils have significantly better absorption, and are more effective once in the body.
I've written an article on the difference between natural triglycerides and ethyl esters here:
https://www.intelligentlabs.org/wha...riglyceride-and-ethyl-ester-omega-3-fish-oil/
Sam's club and omegavia are also enteric coated which reduces absorption. Enteric coated tablets are really useful for probiotics when you want the bacteria to get all the way to the large intestine, but fats such as omega 3's are absorbed in the small intestine. You tend to see enteric coated fish oil's when companies are using cheaper quality fish oil, i.e ethyl ester so they can reduce fish burps.
If you have any questions on this, or our omega 3 please let me know on here via PM or you can call me direct on 941 343 8345
Regards,
Andy Mobbs,
CEO Intelligent Labs
Just wondering if you were in someway unhappy with our omega 3?
The other fish oils mentioned here with the exception of Nordic Naturals are all ethyl ester fish oils
i.e Ocean Blue, Lovaza, Sam's Club, the Vitamin Shop, and Omegavia, (omega via are quite tricky by saying triglyceride reduction on their bottle, but they are an ethyl ester).
We are a natural triglyceride fish oil, as are Nordic Naturals. Triglyceride fish oils have significantly better absorption, and are more effective once in the body.
I've written an article on the difference between natural triglycerides and ethyl esters here:
https://www.intelligentlabs.org/wha...riglyceride-and-ethyl-ester-omega-3-fish-oil/
Sam's club and omegavia are also enteric coated which reduces absorption. Enteric coated tablets are really useful for probiotics when you want the bacteria to get all the way to the large intestine, but fats such as omega 3's are absorbed in the small intestine. You tend to see enteric coated fish oil's when companies are using cheaper quality fish oil, i.e ethyl ester so they can reduce fish burps.
If you have any questions on this, or our omega 3 please let me know on here via PM or you can call me direct on 941 343 8345
Regards,
Andy Mobbs,
CEO Intelligent Labs
maxadvance
Active Member
Thanks for the response, really appreciate someone in your capacity coming onto a board like this and laying out some facts and spelling out some differences. I personally use OmegaVia as you saw, and you pointed out they are ethyl ester. I originally used their EPA only formula, and still do, which is in Triglyceride form and didn't realize until you pointed it out that it's different than their full Omega 3 version.
You mentioned in your article that formulations with higher EPA to DHA ratios are less expensive to produce. I find this odd since all the cheapest fish oil supplements out there are made with close to a 3:2 ratio. I've also read somewhere that EPA and DHA have a tendency to compete for absorption, not sure if true perhaps you could clarify. And finally, I look at EPA as the more desirable of the EFA's since it's more effective for inflammation and triglycerides.
Again, thanks for joining the board.
Hey Andy,
I'm not unhappy with your omega 3. I just ran out of it and thought I would ask the guys on the Excel Male if they had any recommendations, as I really don't know that much about fish oils/omega 3's. I believe I bought your product after reading reviews on Amazon.com for different fish oils. Besides quality of the product, I'am also concerned with the cost of a product that I intend to take on a daily basis for the long term. Thanks for the info and for coming on board. I'am sure a lot of guys would be interested in your information. I would be willing to try Intelligent Labs again, I just wanted to try and learn a little more about different fish oils/omega 3's. Thanks.
Pat
I'm not unhappy with your omega 3. I just ran out of it and thought I would ask the guys on the Excel Male if they had any recommendations, as I really don't know that much about fish oils/omega 3's. I believe I bought your product after reading reviews on Amazon.com for different fish oils. Besides quality of the product, I'am also concerned with the cost of a product that I intend to take on a daily basis for the long term. Thanks for the info and for coming on board. I'am sure a lot of guys would be interested in your information. I would be willing to try Intelligent Labs again, I just wanted to try and learn a little more about different fish oils/omega 3's. Thanks.
Pat
IntelligentLabs
New Member
Hi Guys,
Great questions, I'll try to answer them as best I can!
A 3:2 ratio or 1.5:1 is the natural ratio of EPA to DHA in fish. You may see this ratio in cheaper fish oils because many manufacturers do little to concentrate the fish oil, often only having around 300mg of EPA and DHA per 1000mg capsule.
As you start to concentrate fish oils companies tend to use more EPA because there is more available in in raw fish oil. However, it's not just cheap fish oils that use this ratio, for example Nordic naturals ultimate omega has roughly a 3:2 ratio in their Ultimate omega, which is very much a premium fish oil and as a company they are the current market leader in sales volume for fish oils.
One of the reasons I'm such a fan of DHA is our evolutionary history.As a species we started adding omega 3's to our diet through fish and seafood when our ancestors moved out of the forests of North Africa to find food at the beginning of the last ice age, (or present Ice age to be more exact), around 2.5 million years ago. It led them to the lakes of the great rift valley in east africa and that is where we start to see increases in brain size in early hominid species in the fossil records.
It's argued pretty convincingly in "Human Brain Evolution: The Influence of Freshwater and Marine food resources" by Steven Cunnane, that an abundance of DHA and it's special properties in increasing the fluidity and electrical conductivity of cell membranes especially at synapse for neurones in our brain, being responsible for the increases in our brain sizes.
So in other words we've been consuming EPA and DHA in the 3:2 ratio for over 2 million years, and DHA has had a key role in driving evolution, so I see little point in changing that.
As for EPA and DHA competing, I think you mean Omega 6 and Omega 3 competing along the metabolic pathways. Below is a diagram showing the conversion pathways of omega 3 and 6, and shows the competing enzymes. EPA competes with AA for conversion with the Delta 5 desaturase enzyme.
You can see from the diagram that EPA is a 20 carbon molecule with 5 double bonds, hence 20:5 n3 (n3 for omega 3, which means the last double bond in the molecule is 3 carbon atoms from the end, in omega 6 fatty acids the last double bond is 6 carbon atoms from the end), DHA is 22 carbon atoms with 6 double bonds (22:6 n3). Because it's a larger molecule it is harder or 'more expensive' to produce in nature, or in a lab. The extra double bond is what creates the extra fluidity it offers when incorporated into cell membranes.
These double bonds are actually very fragile, and they are why polyunsaturated fatty acids oxidise so easily.
Maxadvance I noticed you copied and pasted the Barry Sears article on EPA and DHA in another post, it's a good article, however, he is a little naughty in not citing articles to back all of his claims.
The article is here Pat is you want to read it
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?6750-EPA-vs-DHA-Know-the-Differences
For example, he says that EPA and DHA have a similar ability to reduce circulating triglycerides. However, DHA has actually been shown to be more effective than EPA at reducing triglycerides levels.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21975919
He does also point out though that DHA is better at increasing the size of LDL particles (the bad cholesterol), and stopping them from lodging themselves in the walls of arteries and causing artherosclerotic lesions (heart disease). DHA increasing the size of LDL may well be the reason why DHA has been shown to slightly increase the 'levels' of LDL. You keep the number of LDL particles constant but increase their size, then you'll get an increased LDL count in standard lab tests.
DHA is also more effective at increasing the level of HDL (the good cholesterol).
When is comes to inflammation EPA is excellent. It directly produces a number of anti inflammatory Prostagladins, Prostacyclins, Leukotrienes, Thromboaxanes - which are know as eicosanoids. It also directly limits the production of AA, and AA produces inflammatory eicosanoids. Although these can be useful, when there is too much AA it causes a problem.
Both DHA and EPA are effective at producing anti inflammatory resolvins and protectins. However, DHA has been shown to have a key anti inflammatory effect in it's role in producing Maresins.
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-07/foas-hau070113.php
Dr Sears did say in his article that DHA is an inhibitor of the enzyme, delta-6-desaturase, that produces gamma linolenic acid or GLA from linoleic acid. GLA produces a number of anti inflammatory ecosanoids. However, it seems both DHA and EPA can inhibit delta-6-desaturase.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7840871
So if reducing inflammation is your concern then adding a GLA supplement to your regime, like evening primrose oil, might be something to think about.
So in conclusion both EPA and DHA are great, and we include both in our omega 3 in that natural ratio found in fish that has had a driving factor in our evolution.
An interesting point is that DHA is much more efficiently synthesised in woman then men, which is probably down to women needing to provide a constant supply of DHA for a growing fetus, so I think it's even more important for men to make sure they get a good amount of preformed DHA.
Great questions, I'll try to answer them as best I can!
A 3:2 ratio or 1.5:1 is the natural ratio of EPA to DHA in fish. You may see this ratio in cheaper fish oils because many manufacturers do little to concentrate the fish oil, often only having around 300mg of EPA and DHA per 1000mg capsule.
As you start to concentrate fish oils companies tend to use more EPA because there is more available in in raw fish oil. However, it's not just cheap fish oils that use this ratio, for example Nordic naturals ultimate omega has roughly a 3:2 ratio in their Ultimate omega, which is very much a premium fish oil and as a company they are the current market leader in sales volume for fish oils.
One of the reasons I'm such a fan of DHA is our evolutionary history.As a species we started adding omega 3's to our diet through fish and seafood when our ancestors moved out of the forests of North Africa to find food at the beginning of the last ice age, (or present Ice age to be more exact), around 2.5 million years ago. It led them to the lakes of the great rift valley in east africa and that is where we start to see increases in brain size in early hominid species in the fossil records.
It's argued pretty convincingly in "Human Brain Evolution: The Influence of Freshwater and Marine food resources" by Steven Cunnane, that an abundance of DHA and it's special properties in increasing the fluidity and electrical conductivity of cell membranes especially at synapse for neurones in our brain, being responsible for the increases in our brain sizes.
So in other words we've been consuming EPA and DHA in the 3:2 ratio for over 2 million years, and DHA has had a key role in driving evolution, so I see little point in changing that.
As for EPA and DHA competing, I think you mean Omega 6 and Omega 3 competing along the metabolic pathways. Below is a diagram showing the conversion pathways of omega 3 and 6, and shows the competing enzymes. EPA competes with AA for conversion with the Delta 5 desaturase enzyme.
You can see from the diagram that EPA is a 20 carbon molecule with 5 double bonds, hence 20:5 n3 (n3 for omega 3, which means the last double bond in the molecule is 3 carbon atoms from the end, in omega 6 fatty acids the last double bond is 6 carbon atoms from the end), DHA is 22 carbon atoms with 6 double bonds (22:6 n3). Because it's a larger molecule it is harder or 'more expensive' to produce in nature, or in a lab. The extra double bond is what creates the extra fluidity it offers when incorporated into cell membranes.
These double bonds are actually very fragile, and they are why polyunsaturated fatty acids oxidise so easily.
Maxadvance I noticed you copied and pasted the Barry Sears article on EPA and DHA in another post, it's a good article, however, he is a little naughty in not citing articles to back all of his claims.
The article is here Pat is you want to read it
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?6750-EPA-vs-DHA-Know-the-Differences
For example, he says that EPA and DHA have a similar ability to reduce circulating triglycerides. However, DHA has actually been shown to be more effective than EPA at reducing triglycerides levels.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21975919
He does also point out though that DHA is better at increasing the size of LDL particles (the bad cholesterol), and stopping them from lodging themselves in the walls of arteries and causing artherosclerotic lesions (heart disease). DHA increasing the size of LDL may well be the reason why DHA has been shown to slightly increase the 'levels' of LDL. You keep the number of LDL particles constant but increase their size, then you'll get an increased LDL count in standard lab tests.
DHA is also more effective at increasing the level of HDL (the good cholesterol).
When is comes to inflammation EPA is excellent. It directly produces a number of anti inflammatory Prostagladins, Prostacyclins, Leukotrienes, Thromboaxanes - which are know as eicosanoids. It also directly limits the production of AA, and AA produces inflammatory eicosanoids. Although these can be useful, when there is too much AA it causes a problem.
Both DHA and EPA are effective at producing anti inflammatory resolvins and protectins. However, DHA has been shown to have a key anti inflammatory effect in it's role in producing Maresins.
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-07/foas-hau070113.php
Dr Sears did say in his article that DHA is an inhibitor of the enzyme, delta-6-desaturase, that produces gamma linolenic acid or GLA from linoleic acid. GLA produces a number of anti inflammatory ecosanoids. However, it seems both DHA and EPA can inhibit delta-6-desaturase.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7840871
So if reducing inflammation is your concern then adding a GLA supplement to your regime, like evening primrose oil, might be something to think about.
So in conclusion both EPA and DHA are great, and we include both in our omega 3 in that natural ratio found in fish that has had a driving factor in our evolution.
An interesting point is that DHA is much more efficiently synthesised in woman then men, which is probably down to women needing to provide a constant supply of DHA for a growing fetus, so I think it's even more important for men to make sure they get a good amount of preformed DHA.
Last edited:
Vince
Super Moderator
I cannot verify the claims, but the cheapest way to take fish oil in triglyceride form is to buy the vitacost lemon fish oil.
http://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-liquid-finest-fish-oil-omega-3-dha-epa
http://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-liquid-finest-fish-oil-omega-3-dha-epa
Vince
Super Moderator
This is from 8/22/2011 so it's pretty old.
https://oceanblueprofessional.com/?option=com_content&view=article&id=100&Itemid=163
So I emailed the OceanBlue Company. Here is the response.
Thank you for your inquiry. Our OCB is Ethyl Ester.
The human body circulates fat in the form of triglycerides. When fats enter our stomach and intestines, fats are absorbed or they are broken down. When they are absorbed into the blood, like Omega-3, they are converted by the body into triglycerides. So, all fats (free acids or esters) become triglycerides.
In a fish, the fat is a triglyceride. Hence, EPA and DHA circulate as triglycerides in fish. When we process the fish fat to make pure omega-3, we need to convert the triglyceride to ethyl ester (or any ester). An ester is like a salt. It tends to be stable and unchangeable with time. So when we process and purify the oil, there is no other way than to make the ester, and distill and distill and distill, as much as 27+ times. The triglyceride cannot be purified, and as a result, triglycerides smell awful, turn yellow and are only 28% pure.
Don't be fooled by the new trend where companies who don't want to spend money in purification claim esters are somehow “bad” or not absorbed. The only approved “drug” on the market in the world are esters. Triglycerides cannot be proven to be effective because they contain a ton of “bad” triglycerides. Remember only 28% of fish triglycerides is omega-3, the rest is “bad triglycerides”. How can you reduce your own triglycerides by eating more of them??
Many companies will not sell clean, pure omega-3, it is simply too expensive. To combat this, they have chosen to say “they have better triglyceride products” then the clinically proven esters! If that were the case, the approved drugs in Europe, USA and Japan would have been triglycerides. Lovaza, Omacor and Epadel (all approved products by the world) are ethyl esters not triglycerides.
Please let us know if you need any additional information. Again thank you for question.
I tend not to believe this as I have heard that the TG form has no odor.
Any truth to this?
Anyone doing well on Ethyl Ester?
https://oceanblueprofessional.com/?option=com_content&view=article&id=100&Itemid=163
So I emailed the OceanBlue Company. Here is the response.
Thank you for your inquiry. Our OCB is Ethyl Ester.
The human body circulates fat in the form of triglycerides. When fats enter our stomach and intestines, fats are absorbed or they are broken down. When they are absorbed into the blood, like Omega-3, they are converted by the body into triglycerides. So, all fats (free acids or esters) become triglycerides.
In a fish, the fat is a triglyceride. Hence, EPA and DHA circulate as triglycerides in fish. When we process the fish fat to make pure omega-3, we need to convert the triglyceride to ethyl ester (or any ester). An ester is like a salt. It tends to be stable and unchangeable with time. So when we process and purify the oil, there is no other way than to make the ester, and distill and distill and distill, as much as 27+ times. The triglyceride cannot be purified, and as a result, triglycerides smell awful, turn yellow and are only 28% pure.
Don't be fooled by the new trend where companies who don't want to spend money in purification claim esters are somehow “bad” or not absorbed. The only approved “drug” on the market in the world are esters. Triglycerides cannot be proven to be effective because they contain a ton of “bad” triglycerides. Remember only 28% of fish triglycerides is omega-3, the rest is “bad triglycerides”. How can you reduce your own triglycerides by eating more of them??
Many companies will not sell clean, pure omega-3, it is simply too expensive. To combat this, they have chosen to say “they have better triglyceride products” then the clinically proven esters! If that were the case, the approved drugs in Europe, USA and Japan would have been triglycerides. Lovaza, Omacor and Epadel (all approved products by the world) are ethyl esters not triglycerides.
Please let us know if you need any additional information. Again thank you for question.
I tend not to believe this as I have heard that the TG form has no odor.
Any truth to this?
Anyone doing well on Ethyl Ester?
maxadvance
Active Member
I see nothing in description stating that it's in triglyceride form
maxadvance
Active Member
Thank you so much for your in depth response. Looks like I have a bit more studying to do.
Jackie Treehorn
Member
Tricky bastards they are, because they fooled me. I'm currently using their fish oil, but I just put in an order for some Intelligent Labs Fish Oil. I learn something every day on these forums. I didn't know that Omega Via was an ethyl ester product.
Thanks for coming on here and educating us all.
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