Nagging, persistent joint pain.

[Vitamin_C]

Greetings fellas, I have been on TRT for a year and a half and my current regiment is 100mg per week in bi weekly sub Q or shallow IM injections with 250IU of HCG bi weekly as well. I have just recently added .25mg twice weekly of Arimidex due to sensitive E2 coming back at 68 during my last lab draw in July. My Free T was 240 (35-155) and my total T was 1061 (250-1100). Last testosterone shot was Thursday day, and these labs were drawn the following Monday in the evening before my next shot. Those labs were taken when I was doing 120mg per week in divided doses, I backed down a bit for estrogen management to 100mg per week.

I have been having nagging, persistent joint pain for months now and I cannot figure out why. Nothing in my lab work is giving me any red flags nor my current local TRT physician (I am on with Defy as well but have not brought this up to them yet.) I have been having persistent SI joint point, both rotator cuffs, and now my right knee joint is inflamed and I can no longer squat. I have been gaining good strength at the gym and increasing weight and my form perhaps could have gone to crap but I am just not recovering from injury well at all and I feel like every time I go into the gym I am pulling or injuring something . I feel like a 90 year old man in the gym, yet I am only 34. My strength and endurance are very good, no issues there. I love pushing myself in the gym and having therapeutic levels of testosterone give me great strength and endurance, however the recovery and anti-inflammatory aspects have not been there. I lift three days per week, and do cardio twice per week, and I have two days off. Just yesterday I was sitting at my computer and I looked to the left and instantly pulled a muscle in my neck, something just feels off. I know crashing your E2 will give you joint problems, but I was having joint problems when my E2 was high. My energy is good, libido is good, erections are good, mood is good, my immune system is good, I just at a loss on why I keep getting broken in the gym and taking a long time to recover form injury. My next clue is getting my cortisol levels checked via saliva sample . I take 4 grams of fish oils per day and lots of natural anti-inflammatory supplements and a gallon of water per day. I will be corresponding with my physicians about this soon as well as a physical therapist.

 

[Jay]

"and lots of natural anti-inflammatory supplements"

Such as?

Try researching a supplement called SAM-e I have been taking it for a few months now and it has worked wonders on my joints. Kinda expensive but worth it. Jarrow is the brand I use

 

[Vitamin_C]

I've been taking SAM-e for overall health, good stuff. Supplements I take for my joints are fish oils, glucosamine/chondroitin, Cissus, digestive enzymes, white willow bark, Turmeric. All of that is in a proprietary blend from a supplement I get locally called "Kryptojoint." Despite all of this, my joints and body in general is easily injured. For instance I can't even run sprints without my psoas muscle flaring up. I cannot go overhead much doing shoulders because I have mild to moderate nagging pain in both rotator cuffs. I cannot even body weight squat because of joint pain in my right knee.

 

[Jay]

What dosage of SAM-e you taking? 1600 is the suggested amount for joint pain

 

[Vitamin_C]

I was doing 800mg of SAM-e. This definitely warrants further investigation, but nothing in my labs is really jumping out at me. I am pretty well versed at looking at labs and TRT, I am an RN and an FNP doctorate student who wants to specialize in anti-aging. I am going to get a saliva cortisol done soon to check my adrenal functions. I'd like some input if anyone else has experienced this as well. The first thing that would come to mind is low E2, however when I had high E2 I was still having joint issues as well and various muscle pain. Another avenue I may pursue is maybe a sleep study.

 

[Vince]

I wonder if high dose CoQ10 would help, I've been supplementing with it for a long time now.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/315949-coq10-supplements-and-joint-pain/
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...-MD-discusses-why-we-should-take-Coenzyme-Q10

 

[Vitamin_C]

I have been doing 100mg of COQ10 daily

 

[Vince]

I take 400mg twice a day, after a meal and I slowly chew them.

 

[Vitamin_C]

I could try upping the dosages of COQ10 and SAM-e to see if it does anything. Right now I am just perplexed and have no answers.

 

[Vince]

I don't know if high-does CoQ10 would help, but I do know some people that had success with it. The problem is the cost, at times Costoc has sales on CoQ10 or amazon subscribe and save discount.

 

[Vitamin_C]

I think my best move is to get some labs done, saliva cortisol, and correspond with my PCP and perhaps start doing some physical therapy. I have just been a little underwhelmed with TRT's ability to keep inflammation down so far, when I had low to middle total T levels, I don't ever remember being this hurt.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Like Vince said, take higher doses (above 200 mg per day of Coenzyme Q10) to see how you feel.
If that does not help, try Celebrex. If that does not help, get referred to a rheumatologist. There are some good biologics now if you are diagnosed with RA or arthritis.

 

[Vitamin_C]

Ugh, I really hope its not RA. I am hoping I just need to take like a month off the gym and rest and that I've been going too hard. It is just perplexing how injured I keep getting and how my body will not heal.

 

[bluerage]

Man your back/si/psoas and shoulder story is a mirror of mine. I've been on trt for just over 2 years and while I've always had off and on shoulder and back issues, they've really intensified since being on T. Last year I had surgery on my right shoulder to repair a torn labrum, torn rotator cuff, and at the same time had a bicep tenodisis, subacromial decompression and a Bennett's lesion removed. I'm currently getting treatment for my left shoulder as the rotator cuff on that side is flaring up. As for my back, it has increasingly gotten worse. Not so much pain as increased stiffness and reduction in mobility. I'm actually going to get assessed for ankylosing spondylitis which is an autoimmune disease that affects the spine and joints. I'm not sure if T has anything to do with my issues but the timing coincides with the start of my trt. It could also just be that with the T I train harder/rest less. I'm 40 so it could also be age related but man does my body feel old.

 

[Vitamin_C]

That is very interesting bluerage. I wondered since being on Test has increased my strength, maybe it was too much on my joints too quick. We know Testosterone has been touted as being anti inflammatory which I felt like being on Test would help me recover and stay away from injury but that just hasn't been the case, I feel like I got hit by a truck. SI joint pain, both rotator cuffs, right psoas muscle, and right knee are constantly in pain and inflammed, particularly my right knee. I have stopped doing legs for three weeks and I am still getting right knee pain. My next move is doing some labs/tests with my doc.

 

[1Draw]

That is very interesting bluerage. I wondered since being on Test has increased my strength, maybe it was too much on my joints too quick. We know Testosterone has been touted as being anti inflammatory which I felt like being on Test would help me recover and stay away from injury but that just hasn't been the case, I feel like I got hit by a truck. SI joint pain, both rotator cuffs, right psoas muscle, and right knee are constantly in pain and inflammed, particularly my right knee. I have stopped doing legs for three weeks and I am still getting right knee pain. My next move is doing some labs/tests with my doc.

Vitamin C if you are getting some labs done, I would include an electrolyte test that measures all of your electrolytes. With constant working out, sweating, drinking lots of water, you may have created an imbalance somewhere....... Found this website from Draxe that list "joint pain" as a proven side effect of out of whack electrolytes...

https://draxe.com/electrolyte-imbalance/

Try drinking a couple Gatorades a day which can improve an electrolyte imbalance. My sodium gets too low when I sweat a lot. I get dizzy, easily fatigued, and feel like crap. A Gatorade or 2 perks me right up. Good luck!

 

[bluerage]

That is very interesting bluerage. I wondered since being on Test has increased my strength, maybe it was too much on my joints too quick. We know Testosterone has been touted as being anti inflammatory which I felt like being on Test would help me recover and stay away from injury but that just hasn't been the case, I feel like I got hit by a truck. SI joint pain, both rotator cuffs, right psoas muscle, and right knee are constantly in pain and inflammed, particularly my right knee. I have stopped doing legs for three weeks and I am still getting right knee pain. My next move is doing some labs/tests with my doc.

While I may have increased in strength I did not increase the weights I used. I had been training for over 20 years and while the rep range and weight loads vary, I have not tried to lift heavier in any of the exercises I do. So my pain/injuries can not be associated with increase muscle strength that my joints can't handle.

 

[ta406]

Vitamin_C, if you don't mind, could you please post any findings as time goes on? Also a list of labs that you have done. I am dealing with the same issues and after my latest injury (torn labrum in my shoulder) amongst many other injuries, I have to start looking for answers too. I thought it was age catching up to me and 20+ years as a mechanic but I'm starting to wonder if there isn't more to it than that.

 

[Vince]

Vitamin_C, if you don't mind, could you please post any findings as time goes on? Also a list of labs that you have done. I am dealing with the same issues and after my latest injury (torn labrum in my shoulder) amongst many other injuries, I have to start looking for answers too. I thought it was age catching up to me and 20+ years as a mechanic but I'm starting to wonder if there isn't more to it than that.

These post may be of some help.
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...der-pain-relief-Hanging-for-Healthy-Shoulders
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?2464-GAC-Glutamine-Arginine-Carnitine
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?7989-Workouts-while-on-T-and-Nandrolone

 

[Vitamin_C]

I visited my PCP and he ordered a bunch of labs today. I'd really like to get a good accurate Cortisol picture as well. Cortisol is a pretty potent anti-inflammatory; if you are having adrenal fatigue in the later stages your Cortisol could be very low. Lets see what the labs look like for me.