My weird body (T too high, E too high, Doc Doesn't Like Arimidex)

[new_man]

Hello all,

I have started 7-8 weeks ago with T Injections.
I started with 38 mg E3.5D (enanthate). This was too low and I didn't felt so good. There was also some more water around my body. So after 3 weeks I went up to 55 mg E3.5D then the water problem went away, I wasn't crying anymore about little things because of feelings and things got better. My nipples were also not itching anymore (in the beginning they did a bit).
When I started with 55 mg I also introduced 200 iu HCG (which I injected at the same time like the T. Injection). It is funny, I increased Testosterone and I guess the T rose way more than the E2. Anyway (better ratio).
1 Week ago I did a test at my doc. Here is the results: (I tried to make an E2 LS/MC test, but they have chosen the wrong lab-company..:-( )
E2 normal test 151 pmol/l (Range 40-162)
Albumin 44 g/l (Range 35-52)
TSH 1.5 mU/l (0.3-4.3)
T4, free 11.2 pmol/l (9-19)
T3, free 4 pmol/l (2.6-5.7)
Progesterone 0.5 nmol/l (<0.6)
Testosterone, total 47 nmol/l (new Range 8.3-30.19 => Usually Range would be till 8.3-38 which is around 300-1100)
DHEAs 8.5 umol/l (4.6-16.1)
SHBG 25.9 nmol/l (8.4-49)
DHT => not available yet
PSA 0.64 ug/l (<3.0)

Today I spoke to the doc. Here is the new adjustment.
HCG 200 twice a week (stays the same)
T. Injection twice a week - reduction 20% - 45 mg per Injection (90 mg per week)

In two weeks we will make the test again, but just with T, Free T, and E2 LC/MS (this time).
I guess SHBG should be done too?

I'm now scared the the T/E ratio is getting bad when I reduce to 45 mg. I asked him about arimidex and he told me that he isn't doing that. Hope somebody can help me here out.

Right now I am not very hungry, don't have a lot of water retention, feel pretty good most time and I'm improving.

Thanks a lot.

 

[Vince]

If you're not having symptoms of high E2, I wouldn't use an AI. It can cause a lot of problems for some people. Did you do labs on injection day for you injected.
Why All Men Should be Tested with the Sensitive Estradiol Test https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...d-be-Tested-with-the-Sensitive-Estradiol-Test

 

[johndoesmith]

You were only taking the 55mg for 3 weeks before testing? Generally you should wait about 6 weeks before testing.

Also, when did you take the test relative to injection?

If you're not having E2 symptoms, don't take AI. A higher total testosterone allows you to have a higher E2 without symptoms usually.

 

[new_man]

If you're not having symptoms of high E2, I wouldn't use an AI. It can cause a lot of problems for some people. Did you do labs on injection day for you injected.
Why All Men Should be Tested with the Sensitive Estradiol Test https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...d-be-Tested-with-the-Sensitive-Estradiol-Test

I will go down now to 45 mg per Injection. And I use to have high E2 symptoms with an lower Testosterone injection amount. I inject on monday evening and friday morning. And I did the test before inecting on friday morning.

You were only taking the 55mg for 3 weeks before testing? Generally you should wait about 6 weeks before testing.
Also, when did you take the test relative to injection?
If you're not having E2 symptoms, don't take AI. A higher total testosterone allows you to have a higher E2 without symptoms usually.

only 55mg for 3 weeks, that's true. I knew that I should wait atleast 4 weeks, but I couldn't move this date because I can't make to many changes or my doctor gets mad. I'm already having really high E2 and I am not so hungry and I don't have the morning wood like in the beginning. And I guess I wouldn't be able to take AI since it has to be from my doc and he isn't gonna do that. And I'm not sure about this, but my nipples are very soft (opposite of hard).

Now I will go down to 45 mg and see what's happening. Retesting in 6-8 weeks. But I'm scared that I start again with water retentation or anything else.. And waiting 6-8 weeks with this bad side effect - I don't like. Any ideas?

 

[johndoesmith]

I will go down now to 45 mg per Injection. And I use to have high E2 symptoms with an lower Testosterone injection amount. I inject on monday evening and friday morning. And I did the test before inecting on friday morning.

only 55mg for 3 weeks, that's true. I knew that I should wait atleast 4 weeks, but I couldn't move this date because I can't make to many changes or my doctor gets mad. I'm already having really high E2 and I am not so hungry and I don't have the morning wood like in the beginning. And I guess I wouldn't be able to take AI since it has to be from my doc and he isn't gonna do that. And I'm not sure about this, but my nipples are very soft (opposite of hard).

Now I will go down to 45 mg and see what's happening. Retesting in 6-8 weeks. But I'm scared that I start again with water retentation or anything else.. And waiting 6-8 weeks with this bad side effect - I don't like. Any ideas?

You can try dim and zinc.

 

[new_man]

You can try dim and zinc.

I think zinc helps a bit. DIM => I would have to try...
Any other thoughts on my values so far?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I would not worry so much. If you are really concerned, get the sensitive estradiol test.

http://www.discountedlabs.com/estradiol-sensitive-lc-ms-ms/

Your thyroid is good.
Your testosterone is 1154 ng/dL. I am amazed it is that high with your doses.

Glad you are feeling better.

Let us know how that low HCG dose works.

 

[new_man]

Thanks for supporting me. This helps a lot. Not just me, but also my not specialized doctors.

I would not worry so much. If you are really concerned, get the sensitive estradiol test.

http://www.discountedlabs.com/estradiol-sensitive-lc-ms-ms/

Your thyroid is good.
Your testosterone is 1154 ng/dL. I am amazed it is that high with your doses.

Glad you are feeling better.

Let us know how that low HCG dose works.

Thank you so much for your answer!
I will do the sensitive estradiol test next time I will be testing.
Everything got a bit better... Even my nipples are back to normal size or even smaller than before and I'm very glad about it. It took almost 6-8 weeks until the nipples and some other things in my body were constant.
When I started SHBG was always in the low range. Even when I tried with gel... or with 2 gel = SHBG was always in the low range. I guess the SHBG still can change after 6-8 weeks or should it stay constant?
By the way - I was wrong with the 45 mg.. I wasn't doing the calculation right. I thought that every single ampulle contains about 250 mg (in 1.3 ml), but the truth is, that every ml contains about 250 mg testosterone. So, when the ampulle contains 1.3 ml, then it has about 325 mg inside. Since I'm using E3.5D 0.24 ml => I'm using around 60 mg E3.5D, which is 120 mg per week. Many doctors didn't know this about the ampulle... just one doctor told me this.

HCG: 200iu were too small E3.5D. I'm now on 300iu E3.5D. Will check with the doctor if 300 - 3x per week is fine. What do u think about that?

 

[Tommy Wall]

Why not inject on Mondays and Thursdays? I don´t think 45-50 or 55mg make much difference. I would not include AI at all unless you really feel bad. I tanked my E2 with AI once and it was not nice.

 

[new_man]

I believe that 45 or 55 mg can make for some people a huge difference. But that's just my believe.
I inject on monday-afternoon and fridaymorning - E3.5D. That's perfect for me.
Interesting, how much AI did u take, what effect did it have on the test? In the beginning E2 was a problem because of all the symptoms I got of high E2. Now, things are way better. But I don't feel as strong as when I had 0.3 ml... So 0.24 or 0.3 makes a big difference for me.

 

[Tommy Wall]

I prefer not to inject in the afternoon or in the evening only in the morning so Monday and Thursday morning works well for me. I don´t remember my dosage of AI but I think maybe 0, 5 x 2 per week. After some weeks I felt like crap, feeling low, joint pain, stiffness and some hot flashes. I made lab test and my E2 was 4, 9 (more or less tanked). And it took many weeks to come back to normal levels. I´ll guess I am too sensitive to AI. As long as I don´t feel high E2 symptoms I am not worried. I believe that I feel even better on staying on the upper limit. I have aprotocol that´s working for me and I have stopped trying to feel too much. I think in the beginning or during the first year of a TRT therapy you make lots of labs and feel and feel if you feel ok. Now when things have settled I don´t spend my time feeling too much. There are so many others reasons for feeling bad or good some days and some days not which has nothing to withTesto, E2 etc... You name it.

 

[CoastWatcher]

I prefer not to inject in the afternoon or in theevening only in the morning so Monday and Thursday morning works well forme. I don´t remember my dosage of AI but I think maybe 0, 5 x 2 per week. Aftersome weeks I felt like crap, feeling low, joint pain, stiffness and some hotflashes. I made lab test and my E2 was 4, 9 (more or less tanked). And it tookmany weeks to come back to normal levels. I´ll guess I am too sensitive to AI.As long as I don´t feel high E2 symptoms I am not worried. I believe that Ifeel even better on staying on the upper limit. I have aprotocol that´s working for me and I have stopped trying to feel too much. Ithink in the beginning or during the first year of a TRT therapy youmake lots of labs and feel and feel if you feel ok. Now when things have settledI don´t spend my time feeling too much. There are so many others reasons forfeeling bad or good some days and some days not which has nothing to withTesto, E2 etc... You name it.

These are excellent observations in regard to estradiol and lab values in general. Great points.