My trip with CLOMID and PCT to stop testosterone shots

[lebo1965]

​To sum it up ,I stopped my last shot of Depo Testosterone on the 21[SUP]st[/SUP] of October 2016 and started HCG shots 5 days after the last shot according to the protocol recommended by Nelson Vergel and which I have been reading in excelmale.com , the HCG last 14 days in which I felt extremely good in all departments . I then started Clomid 25 mg. for 14 days and to switch to 12.5 mg. for another 14 days and after that do a test after 30 days .
I had the most MISERABLE time of my life while on clomid , it was making me depressed , no energy , 0 libido and was sleeping for maybe 4 hours a night , this lasted for approximately 20-25 days of misery in which i also resorted to CIALIS for ED and a light sleep sedative , started getting on track after an enduring time with what i used to call the "EVIL PILL " .

Nelson , told me that I have to hang on as the Clomid needs time to kick in and there were several times I was going to give up , but kept going and continued on the 12.5 mg without stopping ( according to the protocol ) , as I really didn't want to crash or achieve low numbers . I tested my results and they were 475 ng/dl testosterone and decided to stay on Clomid .

I kept on the daily 12.5 mg of clomid -in which I started feeling normal and less depressive after several hard enduring months . I also then started taking a testosterone booster along with it . 1 tablet morning , 1 tablet evening and I started feeling also better .
I decided a week ago to stop the clomid at night , increase the booster and see how I feel . Which I did and the next day was fine , I just upped the booster to 2 in the morning , 2 in the night and taking other vitamins , such as Vitamin D , omega 3 , selenium , ginseng , etc..

Since that day I have given a space of 3 days between each clomid pill of 12.5 mg at night as to maintain my testosterone level . I am sure I can manage fine without it , but wouldn't want to reduce my current level .
I have not taken the readings yet , but should do this soon and advise you .

To summarise the changes that have happened to me since stopping , are as follows :
1- After a foggy , deep depressive state I was in , I have regained my state of well being .
2- My libido is back to less than a 100% normal , I would say 85% , but no ED and no Cialis.
3- I have noticed my waist getting bigger and have collected fat around it , I am training as much as possible .
4- In the gym , my muscle has decreased . This is evident but still there .My wife thinks I still look the same , but I can tell that my gains don't stay on after cooling down in the gym . In other words ; you can work your ass off and probably lift the same , but don't expect it to show the way you were on testosterone .

As far as I am concerned ; the doctor who prescribed testosterone duped me into going into it, without properly managing the protocol and with no advice and no monitoring whatsoever, including not giving me the correct dosage in which over 1 year I have been suffering because of this.

I had no hypogonadism and my testosterone numbers were over 500 ng/dl for a 48 year old man under extreme stress at work ! ( I am now 51 years ).

Luckily , I saw the excelmale website and researched the forum and ended up speaking with Nelson . Accordingly , his guidance, advice and perseverance ( I was about to stop the protocol several times ) got me through my decision to stop testosterone for a while .
I will evidently go back , as I get older but at the moment will stick to my own production till then .

If you have any comments or questions , please don't hesitate to ask

 

[Vince]

Thanks for giving your testimony,. I believe many start TRT unnecessarily because of bad doctors or improper testing.

 

[dzd]

​
.....and was sleeping for maybe 4 hours a night...,




...3- I have noticed my waist getting bigger and have collected fat around it , I am training as much as possible .
4- In the gym , my muscle has decreased . This is evident but still there .My wife thinks I still look the same , but I can tell that my gains don't stay on after cooling down in the gym . In other words ; you can work your ass off and probably lift the same , but don't expect it to show the way you were on testosterone ...

My observation is, that clomid raises ACTH, so also Cortisol. You can check it by blood test.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Thank you for a compelling account of your journey.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Thanks for your testimonial. It is hard to remain hopeful and patient through a PCT protocol. I am glad things have improved for you!

By the way, we know of no testosterone booster that works. What is it?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

By the way, I created the cheapest post PCT blood test panel available anywhere. Click on this figure.

 

[lebo1965]

Thanks for your testimonial. It is hard to remain hopeful and patient through a PCT protocol. I am glad things have improved for you!

By the way, we know of no testosterone booster that works. What is it?

Hi Nelson ,
Yes the PCT was very hard but after 3 years of continuous TRT use i needed a break badly from the unmanaged therapy i was doing .
I have read and tried several boosters before starting TRT and non really did much . This one i have attached in the picture might have improved things for me or it can just be in my mind that it has and because i was feeling so bad for a couple of months now . Nevertheless , even stopping clomid , i am surviving with some push i believe.
I would be able to know exactly in the next 2 weeks after i do a full blood test and advise everyone here the results .
If anyone has previous experience on using this product , please share
Regards

 

[HanOng]

Great that you shared your story!

I am hypo-gonadal and was on TRT for nearly 3 years and just switched (started this monday) to HCG mono-theraphy to restore fertility with hopes to start a family. I shared my protocol via this forum and another member (who was a Dr) reckon that I should be on Clomid instead of HCG.

Oh well, I guess your testimony sheds the light on why my doctor prescribed HCG instead of Clomid to kickstart my sperm production.

Now I am just keeping my fingers crossed that I wouldn't crash and feel all the negative effects again.

 

[lebo1965]

The protocol i got from the forum and my communication regarding the protocol with Nelson vergel , i believe , is the best protocol you can do in order to kickstart your own production . The HCG is for usually 14 days and will kick start your testes then you switch on to Clomid in which you will have to go through a slightly hectic time till your system starts working again . Mine lasted for around 45 days of feeling lousy and depressed but i believe this is the only way if you want to do a proper PCT and get your own production or take a break from TRT . I kept saying to myself that this is "only in my head " and that it will get better to motivate myself and eventually you start feeling better .
It also depends on how much you were injecting testosterone and your age .
When i go back on TRT it would be done through a properly managed protocol and i would include HCG in it and take a break using PCT every 3-4 months as to not experience what i had experienced above .
By the way , i feel great now !
Good luck and please keep us posted , as i would like to know if you would be feeling what i had

 

[HanOng]

Thanks for your insights and well wishes, Lebo

I had just done my groundwork and understood the rationale behind the protocol by Nelson. Onto my HCG prescription, its a rather high dose of 3 X 1500iu (Total 4500iu) weekly; I guess (anyone please correct me!) its due my doctor's intentions to fast-track my sperm production while maintaining decent testosterone levels (I am hypogonadal) via the high dose HCG.

 

[lebo1965]

My protocol was 350 i.u daily injection for 14 days , a little different as you are taking more than what i was .
maybe other members can clarify this

 

[Marco N Cognito]

​
I had no hypogonadism and my testosterone numbers were over 500 ng/dl for a 48 year old man under extreme stress at work ! ( I am now 51 years ).

Absent low-T symptoms and with normal free and bioavailable T, what you've stated about sums it up as to when TRT is not a good choice - and possibly even harmful. With your better understanding of the risks/benefits now, it will be interesting to see how you proceed. Do you think you will ever consider TRT again, and if so, by what reasons?

 

[lebo1965]

Hi Marco , yes I would consider trt but with a proper protocol which would include scheduled blood tests every 4 months , hcg and guidance on this matter . Let's be serious about this and speak frankly ; you need monitoring or mentoring and you can't just do this without the proper guidelines and a therapy that is controlled by a hormone doctor or specialist .
I didn't have that and learned from all this

 

[Marco N Cognito]

Hi Marco , yes I would consider trt but with a proper protocol which would include scheduled blood tests every 4 months , hcg and guidance on this matter . Let's be serious about this and speak frankly ; you need monitoring or mentoring and you can't just do this without the proper guidelines and a therapy that is controlled by a hormone doctor or specialist .
I didn't have that and learned from all this

I guess my question is then - what's the cutoff or level you would want to see before resuming TRT? Would you still consider TRT if your levels remained in the 500s even with proper management under the guidance of an HRT doc?

 

[lebo1965]

I would consider trt if my symptoms are evident and not my blood test numbers . During my trt for 3 years and due to the fluctuation of time between each shot and the dosage , I was sometimes 600 ng.dl and sometimes 260 ng.dl ( believe it or not ) as I was on 40mg. Every 9 days depo testosterone prescribed by an anti-aging doctor ! This apparently was not enough , I was managing for the first 2 years and then my cells regulated and needed more and this is where my ups and downs started . When I talked to Nelson vergel I discovered a lot of loop holes in my therapy .
Therefore , I would consider it based on how I feel , preform, sleep , libido , energy and my performance in the gym and not on numbers only .

 

[lebo1965]

Just to update you guys on my results after completely stopping TRT and after a "not so swell time with PCT " . That means my last clomid pill was approximately a month ago and since have only been on supplements and boosters .
Testosterone free : 9.9 pg/ml
Testosterone : 3.15 ng/ml ( was 4.75 ng/ml while on PCT clomid 12.5 mg x daily )
Estradiol : 25.75 mIU/mL
LH 6.36 mIU/mL (was 5.16 while on PCT clomid 12.5 mg x daily)
FSH 3.50 mIU/mL (was 3.28 while on PCT climid 12.5 mg x daily )

Started feeling lethargic , tired in the mornings , LIBIDO is fluctuating and FLU like symptoms . That means that either my body is going haywire after stopping the clomid or its the T levels and this is how i will feel without TRT .
My doctor says these are normal numbers for him
At the moment started to reconsider everything either :
A- Go back on TRT and use HCG also , with a proper protocol
B- Start clomid 25mg one day on one day off .
C- Do a HCG mono therapy which i am highly considering .
D- Stay the way i am and test myself after 30 days to see if my body kicked in .

Any advise would be welcomed