My journey so far with low testosterone.

[CSI007]

This is just a compilation of my journey so far. I want to personally thank everyone here who has given me guidance so far. Without resources like this forum many of us would be in the dark. Hopefully this will be of use to someone traveling along a similar journey.

Related Links:

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?6424-Low-T-and-elevated-fasting-blood-sugar

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?6676-Improving-Androgens-and-muscle-response

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?8122-Significantly-weaker-HCG-in-the-summer-from-shipping

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?8264-Natesto-nasal-spray-Any-thoughts-on-this

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...w-After-successful-start-with-HCG-monotherapy

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?8519-Crashing-or-something-else-Need-some-guidence

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...sal-Gel-Update-on-this-with-my-opinion-so-far

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...stosterone-cream-per-day-500iu-HCG-twice-week



29 years old. Feeling good. No worries running my own successful business. No symptoms or problems of low T or anything for that matter.

1999 - Diagnosed with Cancer after a several month ordeal of flu like symptoms, low grade temperature and terrible puritis. Started Chemo late December 1999.

2000 - Finished chemo in June. Lingering affects include peripheral neourapthy, panic attacks, brain fog, memory issues.

2001 - Treated with Paxil ( not a high dose) for panic attacks. Works well but after 6 months develop sexual side affects including trouble with climax and the Paxil begins to lose it's effectiveness. - Stopped Paxil and started on a natural approach. Sexual side affects resolved after about a month - no lingering issues.

2004 - Released from Oncologists care - All clear. Yeah!

2005 - 2012 Gradual decrease in cognitive function with brain fog frequent, Hot flashes increase in frequency. Always feel like I have a fever but don't. Constipation starts to become an issue - this gets worse as the years go on. Joint pain and muscle aches from time to time that have been increasing as the years pass. Just getting old or something else?

2012 - Feb Diagnosed Pre-diabetes. Go on Low carb diet. By July lost 40lbs. HFLC diet. Stopped drinking anything but water.

2015 - 45 years old. Random issues with ED. Not terribly bad but noticeable. As time went on this year, this began to get worse an worse. Energy levels begin to drop. Right after a trip in Nov, complete collapse of feeling OK, super low energy - I have to do something. Feel like I am going to die. Jumping down wife and Kids throats. Terrible mood swings. Fasting BG values are better but still pre-diabetes.

Nov 2015 Visit urologist and given simple test for T. Before I even have a diagnosis he gives me a sample of Natesto to see if it makes me feel any better. :/ Not comfortable with this after what I have read I decide to wait for test results and do more personal research.



I get back in touch and ask to have my estrogen checked as well along with other tests. Dr Declines all tests except for Estradiol and Prolactin.



I decide to see a Endocrinologist to see about possible Thyroid issues hope that this might be the cause of my low T.

Once I finally get an appointment with a new Doctor. He basically tells me all of my problems stem from my Blood Sugar and I need treatment for that. He orders the following labs at my request.





After I never hear a beep back from this Doctor regarding the lab results I decide to move on.

Because of the Thyroid TSH test I decide to start on Thyroid supplements myself and begin taking them twice per day.

I find a new Naturalpath in my area that specializes in hormone replace therapy. After a long discussion about my issues he gives me the go ahead to start Clomid 25mg three times per week.

He orders the following tests.

 

[CSI007]

Once the labs come back. Congratulations, I have Hashimotos disease. Rare among men. Along with possibly several other autoimmune disorders.

By this point in time, the clomid is affecting my eyes. I was having sharp shooting pain and the Doctor told me to stop immediately which I did. Once it's cleared out we start on 500iu HCG twice per week. After discussion decided to also add in T3 5mg twice per day.

These tests were taken about 6 weeks later on March 31, 2016.







As you can see the HCG manages to get my T into the Mid 500s. I am feeling pretty good at this point in time with improving ED symptoms, mood and overall feelings. Less dizziness, hot flashes gone etc.

Will continue on dosage and test in 6 months.

August 2016. Feeling crappy again. Doctor orders more tests as I am running low on HCG. Have difficulty with my compounding pharmacy because of FDA rules. Empower comes through and I get HCG a few days after I take my last shot. I wait a week and test.





Testosterone levels dropped. We increase my HCG dosage to 400iu EOD and test again in a month.






Increasing to 400iu and EOD from 500iu every 3.5 days did not help. Increase dosage to 400iu ED and retest in a month.



No appreciable increase in T after increase in HCG. Recommend TRT as last resort. HCG Mono-therapy failed.

 

[CSI007]

While I am waiting for the Prescribed compounded T cream to be delivered I start on Natesto nasal T gel that I had not taken from the previous urologist visit. I take this for a week and am feeling pretty good about 5 to 6 days in. Only a few more doses left before I run out though. My T cream shows up and I begin taking it the next day. By the following day I am feeling totally hosed. Hot flashes galore for 2 days, energy level dropping. Continue T cream for a month. 50mg/day applied to skin right after a shower. I let it dry for 10 minutes before getting dressed.

After a month, am not feeling any better. Get blood work for T and Free T only to see what is going on. Will order E2 if needed.




Big crash of T since start T cream. Immediately begin T-Cyp injection 50mg twice per week.

 

[johndoesmith]

Wow, what a journey, the whole time I'm thinking "okay this is it, finally, he's going to get something that works!".

You've never had SHBG tested, or did I miss it? I think your SHBG is fairly low, at some points your free test is fairly high and total never went above 500s.

I do find it interesting to watch your tests change as you learned more, once you hit the point where you're getting estradiol sensitive tested, I knew you were learning

One thing I noticed is that your ferritin is high, and is increasing, from what I understand that's not exactly a good thing.

E2 is almost always low, at some points, painfully low. I believe we've talked about low E2 symptoms.

I imagine you're 46 now, and tired of all of this. I truly hope TRT works for you. I hate to see guys with low E2 symptoms.

 

[CSI007]

Thanks for the comment. I wanted to put this all in one place with a progression of all the labs for people to comment on and reference.

SHBG - I asked my natural path about it when I first met him and he did not seem to want to do that particular test. Same with the E2 sensitive test. He just ordered the standard test. This stuff is a learning experience for many I am sure, but he is ordering it now (as I am on the last couple of tests) Next test I will order the SHBG test.

Ferritin - Yeah, this one bothers me. I can't really find a whole lot of info online about it except elevated iron levels and cancer. Hodgkins in particular which is what I dealt with 17 years ago. It is also a consideration for inflammation but my inflammation markers all looked OK in one of the tests above. If anyone has a view on this please comment! Doctor has not seemed concerned about it when I brought it to him.

I sure hope that TRT works. If not, my life is pretty much over.

 

[tjlab]

You have been through a lot. I have noticed since my diagnosis of hashimoto's 4 years, things are never really great. I am 36 and it has took a toll on me. I became allergic to everything environmental..in using mold which has been unbelievabley tough since it is everywhere. I have 3 thyroid nodules and am on synthroid. Chronic prostatitis that is managed with a lower histamine type diet. I now have eczema and it is really hard to manage at times. So...I say all this to say that my low T treatment with test cypionate has been the only thing...besides allergy shots, to really help. I tried test cream...it was very unpredictable. Test cypionate has its issues, but you will feel better. Try to listen to the people here and you will eventually feel better. I felt good on 100mg once weekly. I am changing my protocol to try and get more of a stable daily level. Hashimoto's disease makes you more sensitive to meds and sometimes lower dosages seem to help more than higher dosages that others find more helpful. Good luck with future treatment.

While I am waiting for the Prescribed compounded T cream to be delivered I start on Natesto nasal T gel that I had not taken from the previous urologist visit. I take this for a week and am feeling pretty good about 5 to 6 days in. Only a few more doses left before I run out though. My T cream shows up and I begin taking it the next day. By the following day I am feeling totally hosed. Hot flashes galore for 2 days, energy level dropping. Continue T cream for a month. 50mg/day applied to skin right after a shower. I let it dry for 10 minutes before getting dressed.

After a month, am not feeling any better. Get blood work for T and Free T only to see what is going on. Will order E2 if needed.


View attachment 2820

Big crash of T since start T cream. Immediately begin T-Cyp injection 50mg twice per week.

 

[johndoesmith]

Thanks for the comment. I wanted to put this all in one place with a progression of all the labs for people to comment on and reference.

SHBG - I asked my natural path about it when I first met him and he did not seem to want to do that particular test. Same with the E2 sensitive test. He just ordered the standard test. This stuff is a learning experience for many I am sure, but he is ordering it now (as I am on the last couple of tests) Next test I will order the SHBG test.

Ferritin - Yeah, this one bothers me. I can't really find a whole lot of info online about it except elevated iron levels and cancer. Hodgkins in particular which is what I dealt with 17 years ago. It is also a consideration for inflammation but my inflammation markers all looked OK in one of the tests above. If anyone has a view on this please comment! Doctor has not seemed concerned about it when I brought it to him.

I sure hope that TRT works. If not, my life is pretty much over.

I originally wanted to say a journey down a path of incompetence and refusal to order important tests. Thought it was a bit inflammatory.

The words I think you're looking for is "iron withholding defense". I've looked into this before because it's interesting, but I agree with you, there are no other values out of place. I found an article stating "viral infections" as a possible cause and I noticed you had tested positive for EBV antibodies, maybe that's it?

 

[CSI007]

I originally wanted to say a journey down a path of incompetence and refusal to order important tests. Thought it was a bit inflammatory.

The words I think you're looking for is "iron withholding defense". I've looked into this before because it's interesting, but I agree with you, there are no other values out of place. I found an article stating "viral infections" as a possible cause and I noticed you had tested positive for EBV antibodies, maybe that's it?

Ha! Yeah two Doctor's pretty much worthless! The first one immediately wanted to put me on TRT without even having the results back that I was low T. The other is considered in my area to be a top endo. too. I came to him with a problem, feeling bad etc. Didn't even have to common courtesy to call me and discuss lab results. To this day I have not heard from him.

My current Doctor is a good guy and I believe he is interested in learning. You can see the battery of tests he ordered for me right out of the gate! He is on my side and I believe he is doing everything in his power to make me feel better. He would have started me on T if I had asked but I wanted to try everything else before I went there. So here I am.
When I went in for my review of my first test while on HCG and we discussed the labs. He asked me first and for most, "how do you feel?, the labs are secondary and just guidance to get you where we need you to be". I have read so many stories about doctors just shooting for lab values, so this made me feel good about him.

EBV. Possible. There is a strong possibility that this caused my cancer too. If you research EBV and Lymphoma you will see there is a strong coalition between them, however, its inconclusive because many people have EBV. The lab results are evidence of a past infection and not an active one.

Ferritin - I have wondered that perhaps it's because of my HFLC diet now. I eat a ton of red meat now...But I would think that my iron level would be elevated with it as well.

 

[CSI007]

You have been through a lot. I have noticed since my diagnosis of hashimoto's 4 years, things are never really great. I am 36 and it has took a toll on me. I became allergic to everything environmental..in using mold which has been unbelievabley tough since it is everywhere. I have 3 thyroid nodules and am on synthroid. Chronic prostatitis that is managed with a lower histamine type diet. I now have eczema and it is really hard to manage at times. So...I say all this to say that my low T treatment with test cypionate has been the only thing...besides allergy shots, to really help. I tried test cream...it was very unpredictable. Test cypionate has its issues, but you will feel better. Try to listen to the people here and you will eventually feel better. I felt good on 100mg once weekly. I am changing my protocol to try and get more of a stable daily level. Hashimoto's disease makes you more sensitive to meds and sometimes lower dosages seem to help more than higher dosages that others find more helpful. Good luck with future treatment.

Interesting about your eczema. I have had psoriasis since my cancer showed up. In recent years its been getting worse too.

According to my Doctor, the Hasimoto's is not real bad given the numbers but I will have to watch it. I stopped the T3 about a month ago since my T3 was not terribly low and did nothing for my T. At some point I may have to go back on it but for now, I am hoping that the supplements will help with the thyroid and slow/stop the hashimoto's. autoimmune sucks.

 

[CSI007]

OK,
So I took my 3rd shot on Monday. I have begun to notice a disturbing trend. Anyone else see this when first starting TRT via shots?

I have gained almost 7lbs in a week! Granted, I was not good for thanksgiving and the day after and ate way to many carbs but I am now back in ketosis (or should be) and the weight continues to just creep up. Usually by now I would have lost several pounds.

Last night after dinner I felt terribly bloated too. But I have increased my water intake significantly after all of the carbs I ate last week.

Any ideas this early into shots?

 

[johndoesmith]

OK,
So I took my 3rd shot on Monday. I have begun to notice a disturbing trend. Anyone else see this when first starting TRT via shots?

I have gained almost 7lbs in a week! Granted, I was not good for thanksgiving and the day after and ate way to many carbs but I am now back in ketosis (or should be) and the weight continues to just creep up. Usually by now I would have lost several pounds.

Last night after dinner I felt terribly bloated too. But I have increased my water intake significantly after all of the carbs I ate last week.

Any ideas this early into shots?

It's mostly water retention, and possibly some increased glycogen storage in muscles. Very common when starting TRT. Especially if you had low E2, which you did, before starting TRT.

Some people get a bit hung up on the number on the scale but I wouldn't worry about it. It will even out, eventually you'll lose a little bit of fat, and gain some muscle assuming you're on a dose that puts you at good levels. If it's high E2, the water will come off when you lower E2, if everything's at a good level, then it may just be your proper weight had you had normal testosterone levels if that makes sense.

 

[CSI007]

I kinda figured that. I am definitely feeling the water. My fingers feel swollen and stiff as do my toes and my pants rae feeling tighter in the waist . Also, another thing that I have noticed was my fasting BG. I took it on Sat Tuesday and today. readings of 126, 134, 119. The first two are pretty high for me in recent months. But when the HCG was actually working at first I noticed my FBG jump up into the low 130s. Then it came down, maybe because my T was decreasing. I will have to watch it closely. That is already into diabetes range.

I really wanted to continue to lose weight. I am at 247.9 now and had a low of 230 last year. I want so badly to get down to 215 and get rid of most of this abdominal fat. I am going in the wrong direction.

 

[tjlab]

That is completely normal..I gained weight also.

What is your diet like? How many times do you exercise weekly?

 

[CSI007]

That is completely normal..I gained weight also.

What is your diet like? How many times do you exercise weekly?

I eat low carb high fat.

Examples:

Breakfast: 2 eggs scrambled with 2 TBS butter, 3 strips of bacon or 2 home made pork sausage patties, 24oz water

Lunch: home made cold cuts with mustard or mayonnaise or uncured hot dog with mustard, 0 carb cheese sticks,

Dinner: 8 to 12 oz of steak (filet minion) grilled, 1/4 cup green beans with butter. Green leafy salad with low carb dressing (regular Italian or bleu cheese), some times mashed cauliflower with butter and heavy cream.

Snacks: small handful of Salted Almonds, peanuts and or/cashews.

I pretty much only drink water.

About the only exercise I can get is walking a mile a couple of times a week (if that) unfortunately. I would like to start lifting again if possible. We'll see how that goes but I have got to get some energy and strength back first.

 

[tjlab]

How long have you been doing this? There is no way your fasting glucose can be in the 130's if you have been doing this diet for a significant amount of time.

I eat low carb high fat.

Examples:

Breakfast: 2 eggs scrambled with 2 TBS butter, 3 strips of bacon or 2 home made pork sausage patties, 24oz water

Lunch: home made cold cuts with mustard or mayonnaise or uncured hot dog with mustard, 0 carb cheese sticks,

Dinner: 8 to 12 oz of steak (filet minion) grilled, 1/4 cup green beans with butter. Green leafy salad with low carb dressing (regular Italian or bleu cheese), some times mashed cauliflower with butter and heavy cream.

Snacks: small handful of Salted Almonds, peanuts and or/cashews.

I pretty much only drink water.

About the only exercise I can get is walking a mile a couple of times a week (if that) unfortunately. I would like to start lifting again if possible. We'll see how that goes but I have got to get some energy and strength back first.

 

[CSI007]

How long have you been doing this? There is no way your fasting glucose can be in the 130's if you have been doing this diet for a significant amount of time.

Ha! I have been eating like this since 2013. I was hoping to get my BG down into normal range when I started. I was at about 270lbs. My A1C came back at 6 and FBG was 124. 4 months later after strict low carb I was at 5.9 A1C and FBG of 114. Its been bouncing around since I have been checking. Some days I have near 100, some days it's elevated between 115-120. Labcorp values are pretty close to what my check is at home on the same blood draws.

I do cheat when I am on vacation and holidays but I generally eat like this. I aim for less then 20 carbs per day.

Yes, my body is f'ed up. I was hoping that once I get the Testosterone dialed in I would start to lose weight again and then get the FBG and A1C into normal range without additional pharms.

 

[CSI007]

I should also note that my cholesterol was slightly elevated before the LCHF diet but quickly went into a good range for both HDL and LDL.

 

[tjlab]

Man, I have no idea. You should push yourself to walk 45 minutes everyday. Keep eating healthy.

I should also note that my cholesterol was slightly elevated before the LCHF diet but quickly went into a good range for both HDL and LDL.

 

[CSI007]

Man, I have no idea. You should push yourself to walk 45 minutes everyday. Keep eating healthy.

Its certainly a mystery to me. All the research that I do says that Thyroid, Testosterone, Insulin all related. I figured that my Thyroid an Insulin are out of whack because of my T. I guess we'll find out soon enough. Considering TRT generally from what I have read reduces A1C by 20 % over 7 years and FBG by the same. Also significant reductions in waist size.

Something in my body is messed up. I just wish I could pin point it, fix it and then start to get healthy.

 

[johndoesmith]

I kinda figured that. I am definitely feeling the water. My fingers feel swollen and stiff as do my toes and my pants rae feeling tighter in the waist . Also, another thing that I have noticed was my fasting BG. I took it on Sat Tuesday and today. readings of 126, 134, 119. The first two are pretty high for me in recent months. But when the HCG was actually working at first I noticed my FBG jump up into the low 130s. Then it came down, maybe because my T was decreasing. I will have to watch it closely. That is already into diabetes range.

I really wanted to continue to lose weight. I am at 247.9 now and had a low of 230 last year. I want so badly to get down to 215 and get rid of most of this abdominal fat. I am going in the wrong direction.

That is odd, the glucose levels, usually they decrease significantly on TRT. In fact it's a warning on the testosterone label for diabetics to be careful of hypoglycemia due to suddenly being overmedicated.

Fingers getting swollen sounds a bit like high E2. Not sure what's going on, but maybe reach out to your doc?