My DHEA-S: came back @ 330 ng/dL (RANGE: 31-701)

[FeelingLost]

Is this enough for a 63 year old to not worry about supplementing?

I am attempting HRT (mostly TRT right now) to try and improve my mood and reduce daily chronic morning anxiety and mild panic attacks.

 

[Vince Carter]

It wouldn't hurt to bump your levels a bit try an oral micronized (this important) capsule of about 10 - 25mg and see how you feel.

 

[FeelingLost]

Thank you Vince I currently have a new bottle of DHEA 50mg could I take one of these every other day?

Here's a pict of my current supplements anything jump out as OMG not on a HRT/TRT program.
Note I had to stop the Nootropics they gave me complications with my Tinnitus.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Have you considered CoQ10? I'm sure everyone will be jumping in to add their own favorite to the mix, but that and NAC have served many of us well. Your current list is on target.

 

[Vince Carter]

Too much DHEA could, possibly, drive some Estrogen, I wouldn't do 50 at one-time. If that's a tablet, cut in half. Though 50mg is a common male dose, just be watchful of sides.

 

[Vince]

I don't think you need to increase your DHEA, as Vince Carter said it will increase your E2. Coastwatcher has some good recommendation.

 

[FeelingLost]

I don't think you need to increase your DHEA, as Vince Carter said it will increase your E2. Coastwatcher has some good recommendation.

I probably should have listed my latest bloods. My prolactin and E2 (female test) are high. My reason for wanting to raise my DHEA is I read it was good for a better mood. However if that happens because it raises E2 then I probably don't need it.

 

[Vince]

ERO has a good post on how to lower prolactin, you may have read. It's the fourth one down. https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?7838-How-to-lower-prolactin-without-caber

 

[ratbag]

I am attempting HRT (mostly TRT right now) to try and improve my mood and reduce daily chronic morning anxiety and mild panic attacks.

FeelingLost, I was in a similar position with depression, anxiety. panic attacks etc. I'll list what I felt helped the most but I'll touch on DHEA first since this is your topic. Ironically I just had an appointment with my MD and my DHEA-S was over range 12.1 (1.4-8.0 umol/L) I had been taking 50mg DHEA daily as previously it was below range. Initially I thought I'd have to reduce my daily intake of DHEA but I read that Dr. Crisler suggests going over range. Remember lab ranges are not optimal ranges for folks on HRT. Then in my doctors appointment my MD said the same thing. He follows what that Belguim hormone specialist does (Hertzog) and he claims that optimal DHEA is 15. So I stayed at 50mg daily and that definitely helps in my well-being and feeling good.

I'll share what I think helped me the most. I've suffered from depression/anxiety/panic attacks since a head injury when I was 8 yrs old. I didn't socialise because I was uncomfortable in most social situations. Because I'm hypo-pituitary and being on all hormones. Over time it took a while to get dialed in. I no longer have any depression or anxiety or panic attacks. I feel calm and relaxed. I don't get rattled like I used to and even when something bad happens it pretty much rolls off my back. I now socialise all the time and feel most at home even when talking with people I don't know. This is a huge change from what I was like before.

The hormones that helped me the most to get there was TRT (45mg E3D injection) Then after reading so much about HCG from so many physicians stating that it also helps well-being etc I tried it and sure enough that was a big improvement for me... then I started DHEA and that too helped big time. All together I'm now a different person then when I started TRT. I'm always in a good mood and it would seem that there is nothing negative left in me.

I also keep my FT3 near the top of range. I'm not sure this helps me because it's the 2nd hormone they put me on after cortisol. And I still had depressions anxiety etc. In hindsight I'd say that HCG and DHEA were the ones that fixed my depression/anxiety the most but I doubt that would have worked without TRT. Hope this helps,

P.S, when my estradiol was in the 60's I did not feel well. I think you'll find if you can get that down to under 30 you'll feel an improvement.

 

[FeelingLost]

ERO has a good post on how to lower prolactin, you may have read. It's the fourth one down. https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?7838-How-to-lower-prolactin-without-caber

Hi Vince thank you for the link. man my webbrowser is having a hard time with ERO's text lot of ***8217 and ***8211's, etc.

Recommended dosage: To lower prolactin levels I would recommend you take 50 to 200mg of P5P a day, in divided doses. If you want to take regular B6, which as I've mentioned can sometimes cause minor side effects, take 300 to 1000 mg per day in divided doses. Read the label before you buy B6 because the Pyridoxine Hydrochloride type of B6 (in most supplements) has been shown to be a prolactin inhibitor but Pyridoxal hydrochloride has been shown to be ineffective at lowering prolactin (6) ***8211; make sure you buy the right type!

So if I am reading ERO's recommendation right 50to200mg per day of P-5-P should help bring my prolactin down?

 

[FeelingLost]

FeelingLost, I was in a similar position with depression, anxiety. panic attacks etc. I'll list what I felt helped the most but I'll touch on DHEA first since this is your topic. Ironically I just had an appointment with my MD and my DHEA-S was over range 12.1 (1.4-8.0 umol/L) I had been taking 50mg DHEA daily as previously it was below range. Initially I thought I'd have to reduce my daily intake of DHEA but I read that Dr. Crisler suggests going over range. Remember lab ranges are not optimal ranges for folks on HRT. Then in my doctors appointment my MD said the same thing. He follows what that Belguim hormone specialist does (Hertzog) and he claims that optimal DHEA is 15. So I stayed at 50mg daily and that definitely helps in my well-being and feeling good.

I'll share what I think helped me the most. I've suffered from depression/anxiety/panic attacks since a head injury when I was 8 yrs old. I didn't socialise because I was uncomfortable in most social situations. Because I'm hypo-pituitary and being on all hormones. Over time it took a while to get dialed in. I no longer have any depression or anxiety or panic attacks. I feel calm and relaxed. I don't get rattled like I used to and even when something bad happens it pretty much rolls off my back. I now socialise all the time and feel most at home even when talking with people I don't know. This is a huge change from what I was like before.

The hormones that helped me the most to get there was TRT (45mg E3D injection) Then after reading so much about HCG from so many physicians stating that it also helps well-being etc I tried it and sure enough that was a big improvement for me... then I started DHEA and that too helped big time. All together I'm now a different person then when I started TRT. I'm always in a good mood and it would seem that there is nothing negative left in me.

I also keep my FT3 near the top of range. I'm not sure this helps me because it's the 2nd hormone they put me on after cortisol. And I still had depressions anxiety etc. In hindsight I'd say that HCG and DHEA were the ones that fixed my depression/anxiety the most but I doubt that would have worked without TRT. Hope this helps,

P.S, when my estradiol was in the 60's I did not feel well. I think you'll find if you can get that down to under 30 you'll feel an improvement.

Wow Ratbag you have been on one hell of a journey. It sure sounds like you have found what works for you good job.
Would you happen to know what or how DHEA improves our mood? If it converts more T to E2 I can't have that. My E2 is already too high. I don't have a magic TT number right now that I am shooting for. My gut says to get get my estridol and E2 down is to reduce my T gel applications. After all that is what sent my other harmones over the recommended range.

Now I know for many here reducing T intake is the last thing they want to do and in fact they will take other drugs so they don't have to. I am not there yet.

Anyway thank you for sharing your story and suggestions with me. My hope builds with every post I read that I am on the right track and I can't thank everyone enough.

 

[ratbag]

No I do not know why DHEA makes us feel good... I read so much from so many hormone specialists that I've picked this up from. Now whats important to remember is my natural DHEA-S was very low, in fact it was way under range so it's no surprise it helped me. I'm sure there are many people out there who supplement it without knowing their level and this could do the opposite. So if you know what your DHEA is then you would be in a position to know whether you need some or not.

The high E2 estradiol is another issue. Some of us it goes very high. I have this problem too so I have to take anastrozle (arimidex) to keep it under control. It sounds like you don't take anything for it. I found the effects of high E2 quite painful.. from burning tears in my eyes to sore irritated nipples and of course I also have gynecomastia, growing breasts etc. I felt so much better when I able to get my E2 under control. I had very high E2 before I started HRT. It was 90. and not one MD in any hospital even noticed it... yet my hormone MD saw it immediately (once I found him).

I would say yes that DHEA can raise E2 slightly because it is an androgen. As Nelson says the key is properly managing your protocol and in this case I think you may need to take something for it. Also keep in mind you are on gel and that is the easiest on E2. If you had to go on Test Cyp injections your E2 would rise even more. So the fact you are on gel and your E2 is too high means that perhaps your E2 was too high before TRT? Anyways it's definitely a top priority in managing your protocol.

 

[madman]

Wow Ratbag you have been on one hell of a journey. It sure sounds like you have found what works for you good job.
Would you happen to know what or how DHEA improves our mood? If it converts more T to E2 I can't have that. My E2 is already too high. I don't have a magic TT number right now that I am shooting for. My gut says to get get my estridol and E2 down is to reduce my T gel applications. After all that is what sent my other harmones over the recommended range.

Now I know for many here reducing T intake is the last thing they want to do and in fact they will take other drugs so they don't have to. I am not there yet.

Anyway thank you for sharing your story and suggestions with me. My hope builds with every post I read that I am on the right track and I can't thank everyone enough.

What was your e2 pre-trt? Your tt is only 632 if you lowered your daily dosage you may very well end up with sub optimal tt.

 

[Vince]

Hi Vince thank you for the link. man my webbrowser is having a hard time with ERO's text lot of ***8217 and ***8211's, etc.


So if I am reading ERO's recommendation right 50to200mg per day of P-5-P should help bring my prolactin down?

I use Jarrow B-Right, Methyl B12 and Methyl Folate, to cover my bases.

 

[FeelingLost]

What was your e2 pre-trt? Your tt is only 632 if you lowered your daily dosage you may very well end up with sub optimal tt.

When that blood test was taken I had only been on gel for 6 weeks. The test was just a quick peak to see if the gel was working. I had read here on the forum several time that gels are kind of crap and don't work for many so I worried my PCP enough to get a second bloodtest ran specific to TRT. I gave him Nelsons list and asked for those test. He refused the E2 sensitive said it was not FDA approved and my ins would not pay for it.

I don't know what my E2 was before the my PCP started me on the gel. Back in December during an annual checkup my doc ran these boodtests, see below.
All was fine except he noticed my TT was only 173 ng/dL so with just that number he put me on the gel. Within 3 weeks my mood had improved and my morning anxiety was diminished. I don't want to make a bunch of changes until I see just where everything settles out with the gel alone. I have no target T number I am shooting for. I just want to feel like my old self.

================================================
Order: Triiodothyronine (T3) Total - LC 002188

Name Date Value Units Range Source
Triiodothyronine (T3) 12/13/2016 127.00 71-180

Order: Prostate-Specific Ag, Serum - LC 010322

Name Date Value Units Range Source
Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 12/13/2016 0.60 0.0-4.0

Order: Tsh, 3rd Generation - LC 004259

Name Date Value Units Range Source
TSH 12/13/2016 1.43 0.450-4.500

Order: Thyroxine (T4) Free, Direct, S - LC 001974

Name Date Value Units Range Source
T4, FREE(Direct) 12/13/2016 1.26 0.82-1.77

Order: Testosterone,Total, Serum - LC 004226

Name Date Value Units Range Source
Testosterone, Serum 12/13/2016 173.00 348-1197


Order: Comp. Metabolic Panel (14) - LC 322000

Name Date Value Units Range Source
Glucose, Serum 12/13/2016 151.00 65-99

BUN 12/13/2016 23.00 8-27

Creatinine, Serum 12/13/2016 0.82 0.76-1.27

eGFR If NonAfricn AM 12/13/2016 94.00 >59

BUN/Creatinine Ratio 12/13/2016 28.00 10-22

Sodium, Serum 12/13/2016 140.00 134-144

Potassium, Serum 12/13/2016 4.50 3.5-5.2

Chloride, Serum 12/13/2016 101.00 96-106

Carbon Dioxide, Total 12/13/2016 25.00 18-28

Calcium, Serum 12/13/2016 8.70 8.6-10.2

Protein, Total, Serum 12/13/2016 6.90 6.0-8.5

Albumin, Serum 12/13/2016 4.20 3.6-4.8

Globulin, Total 12/13/2016 2.70 1.5-4.5

A/G Ratio 12/13/2016 1.60 1.1-2.5

Bilirubin, Total 12/13/2016 0.20 0.0-1.2

Alkaline Phosphatase, S 12/13/2016 57.00 39-117

AST (SGOT) 12/13/2016 18.00 0-40

ALT (SGPT) 12/13/2016 33.00 0-44

Order: CBC With Differential/Platelet - LC 005009

Name Date Value Units Range Source
WBC 12/13/2016 5.40 3.4-10.8

RBC 12/13/2016 5.27 4.14-5.80

Hemoglobin 12/13/2016 15.90 12.6-17.7

Hematocrit 12/13/2016 47.60 37.5-51.0

MCV 12/13/2016 90.00 79-97

MCH 12/13/2016 30.20 26.6-33.0

MCHC 12/13/2016 33.40 31.5-35.7

RDW 12/13/2016 14.20 12.3-15.4

Platelets 12/13/2016 239.00 150-379

Neutrophils 12/13/2016 44.00

Lymphs 12/13/2016 44.00

Monocytes 12/13/2016 9.00

Eos 12/13/2016 3.00

Basos 12/13/2016 0.00

Immature Cells 12/13/2016

Neutrophils (Absolute) 12/13/2016 2.40 1.4-7.0

Lymphs (Absolute) 12/13/2016 2.40 0.7-3.1

Monocytes(Absolute) 12/13/2016 0.50 0.1-0.9

Eos (Absolute) 12/13/2016 0.20 0.0-0.4

Baso (Absolute) 12/13/2016 0.00 0.0-0.2

Immature Granulocytes 12/13/2016 0.00

Immature Grans (Abs) 12/13/2016 0.00 0.0-0.1

I would also like to note I live at 6200ft above sealevel which migh effect my Hematocrit #s

 

[madman]

When that blood test was taken I had only been on gel for 6 weeks. The test was just a quick peak to see if the gel was working. I had read here on the forum several time that gels are kind of crap and don't work for many so I worried my PCP enough to get a second bloodtest ran specific to TRT. I gave him Nelsons list and asked for those test. He refused the E2 sensitive said it was not FDA approved and my ins would not pay for it.

I don't know what my E2 was before the my PCP started me on the gel. Back in December during an annual checkup my doc ran these boodtests, see below.
All was fine except he noticed my TT was only 173 ng/dL so with just that number he put me on the gel. Within 3 weeks my mood had improved and my morning anxiety was diminished. I don't want to make a bunch of changes until I see just where everything settles out with the gel alone. I have no target T number I am shooting for. I just want to feel like my old self.

================================================
Order: Triiodothyronine (T3) Total - LC 002188

Name Date Value Units Range Source
Triiodothyronine (T3) 12/13/2016 127.00 71-180

Order: Prostate-Specific Ag, Serum - LC 010322

Name Date Value Units Range Source
Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 12/13/2016 0.60 0.0-4.0

Order: Tsh, 3rd Generation - LC 004259

Name Date Value Units Range Source
TSH 12/13/2016 1.43 0.450-4.500

Order: Thyroxine (T4) Free, Direct, S - LC 001974

Name Date Value Units Range Source
T4, FREE(Direct) 12/13/2016 1.26 0.82-1.77

Order: Testosterone,Total, Serum - LC 004226

Name Date Value Units Range Source
Testosterone, Serum 12/13/2016 173.00 348-1197


Order: Comp. Metabolic Panel (14) - LC 322000

Name Date Value Units Range Source
Glucose, Serum 12/13/2016 151.00 65-99

BUN 12/13/2016 23.00 8-27

Creatinine, Serum 12/13/2016 0.82 0.76-1.27

eGFR If NonAfricn AM 12/13/2016 94.00 >59

BUN/Creatinine Ratio 12/13/2016 28.00 10-22

Sodium, Serum 12/13/2016 140.00 134-144

Potassium, Serum 12/13/2016 4.50 3.5-5.2

Chloride, Serum 12/13/2016 101.00 96-106

Carbon Dioxide, Total 12/13/2016 25.00 18-28

Calcium, Serum 12/13/2016 8.70 8.6-10.2

Protein, Total, Serum 12/13/2016 6.90 6.0-8.5

Albumin, Serum 12/13/2016 4.20 3.6-4.8

Globulin, Total 12/13/2016 2.70 1.5-4.5

A/G Ratio 12/13/2016 1.60 1.1-2.5

Bilirubin, Total 12/13/2016 0.20 0.0-1.2

Alkaline Phosphatase, S 12/13/2016 57.00 39-117

AST (SGOT) 12/13/2016 18.00 0-40

ALT (SGPT) 12/13/2016 33.00 0-44

Order: CBC With Differential/Platelet - LC 005009

Name Date Value Units Range Source
WBC 12/13/2016 5.40 3.4-10.8

RBC 12/13/2016 5.27 4.14-5.80

Hemoglobin 12/13/2016 15.90 12.6-17.7

Hematocrit 12/13/2016 47.60 37.5-51.0

MCV 12/13/2016 90.00 79-97

MCH 12/13/2016 30.20 26.6-33.0

MCHC 12/13/2016 33.40 31.5-35.7

RDW 12/13/2016 14.20 12.3-15.4

Platelets 12/13/2016 239.00 150-379

Neutrophils 12/13/2016 44.00

Lymphs 12/13/2016 44.00

Monocytes 12/13/2016 9.00

Eos 12/13/2016 3.00

Basos 12/13/2016 0.00

Immature Cells 12/13/2016

Neutrophils (Absolute) 12/13/2016 2.40 1.4-7.0

Lymphs (Absolute) 12/13/2016 2.40 0.7-3.1

Monocytes(Absolute) 12/13/2016 0.50 0.1-0.9

Eos (Absolute) 12/13/2016 0.20 0.0-0.4

Baso (Absolute) 12/13/2016 0.00 0.0-0.2

Immature Granulocytes 12/13/2016 0.00

Immature Grans (Abs) 12/13/2016 0.00 0.0-0.1

I would also like to note I live at 6200ft above sealevel which migh effect my Hematocrit #s

I would say not all is fine, were you fasted for this test as your glucose is high and your most recent test 3/3/17 your triglycerides are high? How is your diet and roughly what is your body fat %? Also your lipids need to be improved upon even though your cholesterol is in range your hdl is low and ldl is high?

 

[FeelingLost]

I would say not all is fine, were you fasted for this test as your glucose is high and your most recent test 3/3/17 your triglycerides are high? How is your diet and roughly what is your body fat %? Also your lipids need to be improved upon even though your cholesterol is in range your hdl is low and ldl is high?

Hi Madman, thank you for taking the time to look over my numbers and offer suggestions and advice.

I did not fast and I am currently 22# over weight from my normal 180# when I was active.
My PCP wanted blood drawn that day during my checkup.
I was experiencing daily intense morning anxiety sometime it would turn into panic attacks.
He was checking everything and everywhere.

Two years ago I was in the middle of my bucket list Mtn biking Moab Utah, floating thru the grand canyon on a kayak, hiking across the Continental Divide on the Colorado Trail. An for no reason two years ago @ age 61 I climbed into my big easy chair at home and lost all desire to leave it. I became apathetic toward the world and could see no future.

My PCP drugged me with a SSRI to keep me alive and it give him time to continue looking. After a month he could find nothing but the 173 TT that was out of wack. I asked if we could dump the SSRI and try TRT just see what that would do. He agreed and here I am 7 weeks into applying gel.

All I want from T is the old me back. I am probably the only man on this site looking for mental health answers using a TRT program.