I'm 63, sterile for 30years, do I need HCG? How would I know?

[FeelingLost]

Sorry if this is a dumb question I am still trying to learn about all the other drugs used in a TRT program or protocal as I've heard it called.
I am 63 years old, had a vasectomy two years after my daughter was born 30 years ago. Neither me or my wife care what my balls look like and of course I have zero interest in future children.
Would there be any reason I need to ask my doc about adding HCG to my treatment?

some background (sorry I'm a retired engineer where you can't have enough details when reporting/reviewing a problem)

I just started a gel based TRT program with my PCP in January after my last checkup.
I was diagnosed with anxiety and depression I was also experiencing mild panic attacks. I was not responding well to Antidepressants.
Numbing my brain to the point I don't care about being apathetic is not living IMO.

My PCP could find nothing physically wrong with me other than my TT was 173ng/dL. So my TRT journey begins.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Hello FeelingLost (Hopefully FeelingGood soon )

I am glad you joined us. Sorry you have been feeling so crappy. Hopefully we can help guide you through your new journey.

Can you expand of what type of gel, how much T concentration it has, how much you apply daily, and how long you have been on it? Also, can you share any other lab test values (thyroid and others)?

 

[ERO]

How long have you been on the gel? If its been 4-6 weeks and if you feel good now, have a decent libido, decent energy, and since you are not planning to have more kids, etc...then I would say stay with what you are doing. Bear in mind that gels have a relatively high failure rate as guys either don't absorb them well enough to get a high enough T level or they do at first and then that quickly fades over time. Beware if your doc says if you get to say a Total T of 500 that you are good to go. Most guys need to be in the upper quartile of the natural range to feel any benefits. Is your doc checking your E2 with the sensitive assay as well? If not, that is another red flag that you need a new doc that is up to speed on TRT.

Some guys feel better with HCG and some feel nothing or find it causes higher E2 - the idea is that by using it, you back-fill important hormonal pathways, which makes sense, but as I say, only some guys feel better using it. Its important for guys that want to have kids in the future, of course.

 

[Mountain Man]

I'm 63 as well. No HCG for me either. Vasectomy 24 years ago. I don't think it"s needed either. My testicular shrinkage is minimal as well. My doctor prescribes 100 mg test cyp per week, IM. The only thing I'd suggest is that injections might be easier. Really sounds like a pain to use gel and go through all that inconvience each day.

 

[FeelingLost]

Hello FeelingLost (Hopefully FeelingGood soon )

I am glad you joined us. Sorry you have been feeling so crappy. Hopefully we can help guide you through your new journey.

Can you expand of what type of gel, how much T concentration it has, how much you apply daily, and how long you have been on it? Also, can you share any other lab test values (thyroid and others)?

Hello Nelson thank you so much for this site.
There is so much great info here and membership has been really helpful and patient with all my noobie questions.

I am having issues trying to post my last blood test. Which I have learned here is not complete.
I only have a txt doc with little formating and no hard copy to photograph. But I will copy and past what I can.

I have new blood work coming March 3rd. I emailed my doc your TRT blood test list and the info I got from DiscountLabs.
He replied that he reviewed the info and has ordered all the correct blood test this time. We will see.
===========================
My current perscription:
Testim 50mg/5g gel applied to the shoulders post morning shower on clean dry skin. I have applied 29 tubs and Monday will pickup my next 30 tubs.
===========================

Cut and paste from my bloodtest in December 2016

Lipid Panel was ran but all lvl are high. I did not fast.
My PCP wanted my other blood numbers now and did not care about blood sugar (glucose).Also please remember this blood test was not to Diagnose a low T condition.
He was looking every where to try and figure out what was wrong with me.
Why was I anxious and having panic attacks. Why did I go from an extremely active outdoors person to one day sitting down in my comfy chair and never
wanting to leave it or a better discription afraid to leave it.

Only when Antidepressants did not make me feel better and my complete physical exam revealed nothing did I suggest we try getting my T lvl back up to something normal for my age.
He agreed to try.

=====================================
Order: Triiodothyronine (T3) Total - LC 002188

Name Date Value Units Range Source
Triiodothyronine (T3) 12/13/2016 127.00 71-180

Order: Prostate-Specific Ag, Serum - LC 010322

Name Date Value Units Range Source
Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 12/13/2016 0.60 0.0-4.0

Order: Tsh, 3rd Generation - LC 004259

Name Date Value Units Range Source
TSH 12/13/2016 1.43 0.450-4.500

Order: Thyroxine (T4) Free, Direct, S - LC 001974

Name Date Value Units Range Source
T4, FREE(Direct) 12/13/2016 1.26 0.82-1.77

Order: Testosterone,Total, Serum - LC 004226

Name Date Value Units Range Source
Testosterone, Serum 12/13/2016 173.00 348-1197


Order: Comp. Metabolic Panel (14) - LC 322000

Name Date Value Units Range Source
Glucose, Serum 12/13/2016 151.00 65-99

BUN 12/13/2016 23.00 8-27

Creatinine, Serum 12/13/2016 0.82 0.76-1.27

eGFR If NonAfricn AM 12/13/2016 94.00 >59

BUN/Creatinine Ratio 12/13/2016 28.00 10-22

Sodium, Serum 12/13/2016 140.00 134-144

Potassium, Serum 12/13/2016 4.50 3.5-5.2

Chloride, Serum 12/13/2016 101.00 96-106

Carbon Dioxide, Total 12/13/2016 25.00 18-28

Calcium, Serum 12/13/2016 8.70 8.6-10.2

Protein, Total, Serum 12/13/2016 6.90 6.0-8.5

Albumin, Serum 12/13/2016 4.20 3.6-4.8

Globulin, Total 12/13/2016 2.70 1.5-4.5

A/G Ratio 12/13/2016 1.60 1.1-2.5

Bilirubin, Total 12/13/2016 0.20 0.0-1.2

Alkaline Phosphatase, S 12/13/2016 57.00 39-117

AST (SGOT) 12/13/2016 18.00 0-40

ALT (SGPT) 12/13/2016 33.00 0-44

Order: CBC With Differential/Platelet - LC 005009

Name Date Value Units Range Source
WBC 12/13/2016 5.40 3.4-10.8

RBC 12/13/2016 5.27 4.14-5.80

Hemoglobin 12/13/2016 15.90 12.6-17.7

Hematocrit 12/13/2016 47.60 37.5-51.0

MCV 12/13/2016 90.00 79-97

MCH 12/13/2016 30.20 26.6-33.0

MCHC 12/13/2016 33.40 31.5-35.7

RDW 12/13/2016 14.20 12.3-15.4

Platelets 12/13/2016 239.00 150-379

Neutrophils 12/13/2016 44.00

Lymphs 12/13/2016 44.00

Monocytes 12/13/2016 9.00

Eos 12/13/2016 3.00

Basos 12/13/2016 0.00

Immature Cells 12/13/2016

Neutrophils (Absolute) 12/13/2016 2.40 1.4-7.0

Lymphs (Absolute) 12/13/2016 2.40 0.7-3.1

Monocytes(Absolute) 12/13/2016 0.50 0.1-0.9

Eos (Absolute) 12/13/2016 0.20 0.0-0.4

Baso (Absolute) 12/13/2016 0.00 0.0-0.2

Immature Granulocytes 12/13/2016 0.00

Immature Grans (Abs) 12/13/2016 0.00 0.0-0.1

==================================================================

I would also like to note I live at 6200ft above sealevel which migh effect my Hematocrit #s

To give you guys some idea of my fitness lvl before that day 2 years ago when I satdown in that chair I was in the middle of my bucket list.




Taking my mtn bike out for rides like this weekly.

https://youtu.be/8rb1AgeO5nE?t=58s

I even spent 9 days paddling 20 miles perday thru the GrandCanyon

 

[FeelingLost]

Did my wall of text scare everyone away? Sorry I was trying to be thorough.

While we wait to see if Nelson replys back I would love to hear what others think or suggest.
If there are other questions I'd be happy to try and answer.

 

[Vince Carter]

HCG has little to do with fertility, but is about not inducing organ failure of the testes by use of Testosterone. There are a number of hormonal pathways thru the testes that are valuable to keep alive, which is what HCG does...keep the testes alive. Thru the failure, the testes can shrink, and could be painful for some men, besides the outward physcial appearance of a shriveled up nut sack. If you can parse out the use of HCG from fertility, it's easily justified.

 

[Vince]

I'm a fan of HCG. As you probably know I inject 500iu twice a week.
The depression meds you were on or still on, probably cause you're low testosterone.

 

[FeelingLost]

I'm a fan of HCG. As you probably know I inject 500iu twice a week.
The depression meds you were on or still on, probably cause you're low testosterone.

Hi Vince, Thanks for joining in the discussion. I only took the SSRI for 30 days (10 day @10mg, 20 days @5mg).

It was the first thing my PCP gave me when I told him about my mental state.
I have not had a complete physical for over 5 years I was feeling great and taking no meds of any kind. I have been fit and healthy all my live.

I developed ED in my early 50's but did not care. I think my low T actually started way back then and continued to drop every year after until the lvl got so low it has affected my mental state.
Putting me in my current situation.

 

[Vince]

Hi Vince, Thanks for joining in the discussion. I only took the SSRI for 30 days (10 day @10mg, 20 days @5mg).

It was the first thing my PCP gave me when I told him about my mental state.
I have not had a complete physical for over 5 years I was feeling great and taking no meds of any kind. I have been fit and healthy all my live.

I developed ED in my early 50's but did not care. I think my low T actually started way back then and continued to drop every year after until the lvl got so low it has affected my mental state.
Putting me in my current situation.

Here's a good thread, you may read.
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...ow-About-HCG-Testosterone-and-Testicular-Size
Testosterone levels are at their highest during adolescence, when they are helping to make the transition from boy to man. They peak during the early years of adulthood (early 20s).

However, by the time you reach the age of 30, testosterone production in your body begins to decline. The decrease in production is roughly 1% per year. After 15 to 20 years of this (by your 40s and 50s), you may begin to suffer from low testosterone levels, also known as male hypogonadism.

 

[FeelingLost]

Thanks Vince that really was a very good read. If I am reading this right all HCG really does is prevent Testicular atrophy and increases sperm count. Two things I could care less about.

TRT decreases the production of two vital hormones:

Luteinizing hormone (LH) -- This hormone helps to regulate the testes' production of hormone, and converts androstenedione to testosterone. Together with FSH (see below), it is needed to maintain healthy testosterone levels. -Don't care I'm on a TRT protocal.

Follicle stimulating hormone -- This hormone controls the production of sperm in the testicles. It is necessary to begin the spermatogenesis process: turning male primordial germ cells into sperm. -Don't care been cut for 30 years. My sperm count has been 0 since my vasectomy. No interest in future children at my age.

Both of these hormones play pivotal roles in male fertility. Without them, the testicles are unable to produce healthy, viable sperm in sufficient quantities. The fact that TRT affects these two hormones means that the testosterone replacement therapy may have the OPPOSITE of the desired effect! Instead of boosting fertility, TRT can cause azoospermia (no viable sperm produced) by up to 40%! - I'm OK with this I don't need sperm.

All of these risks could make testosterone replacement therapy a less-than-effective infertility treatment for men. Unless, of course, science discovered a way to counteract the negative side effects…I want to feel good not make babies.

A New Addition To Save the Day: HCG

According to TWO separate studies, HCG injections may be the solution to the problems posed by Testosterone Replacement Therapy!

Before we take a look at the studies, it's important to know what HCG is.

HCG, or human chorionic gonadotropin, is a hormone that plays a vital role in fertility and fetal development. HCG triggers the female body to release eggs during ovulation, and it supports the development of the egg in the ovaries. Once the egg has been fertilized, HCG keeps the fetus protected by maintaining the corpus luteum.
However, what makes HCG useful for treating low testosterone levels is the fact that it's similar in structure to luteinizing hormone. Not only is this useful for stimulating ovulation in women, but it can increase the testicles' production of testosterone. HCG is used in fertility treatments for both men and women. - again all about making babies.

 

[FurryDude]

Thanks Vince that really was a very good read. If I am reading this right all HCG really does is prevent Testicular atrophy and increases sperm count. Two things I could care less about.

This is a very interesting post. So Vince, question for you: What is the difference between using Clomiphene Citrate vs. HCG? Don't they do the same thing?

 

[Vince]

Clomiphene Citrate is used for a restart and HCG is used for waking up your testicles, before a restart of when you are on TRT.

 

[ratbag]

FeelingLost, I'm pretty much your age w/ same sentiments but I now use use HCG because like you I found that I was a little depressed, slight cognitive impairment, anxiety, low mood, I could add more, I too had heard HCG can make a difference in cognitive function so I tried it and it was major for me. I feel brighter, sharper, quicker, I am calm and relaxed. It's like it was the hormone I was missing. I believe it's worth a try just to see if it'll improve your well-being.

 

[FeelingLost]

Thank you Ratbag I had just about wrote HCG off as something I really didn't need in my protocal. But I will keep it in mind as I find my path to a TRT that will work for me and my unique goals.

 

[FurryDude]

Clomiphene Citrate is used for a restart and HCG is used for waking up your testicles, before a restart of when you are on TRT.

Thanks Vince. Hmm, when my doctor started me on TST injections he started me immediately on Clomiphine Citrate. Did I miss something? Should he have had me on HCG first?

 

[Vince]

Thanks Vince. Hmm, when my doctor started me on TST injections he started me immediately on Clomiphine Citrate. Did I miss something? Should he have had me on HCG first?

When I started TRT, I started using HCG right away. My starting dose of T was 70mg twice a week and 500iu of HCG twice a week. I felt as good, I would never think of stopping HCG.

 

[Mountain Man]

When I started TRT, I started using HCG right away. My starting dose of T was 70mg twice a week and 500iu of HCG twice a week. I felt as good, I would never think of stopping HCG.

I'm on 100 mg test cyp weekly, nothing else. I wonder how hcg would impact sex drive and performance.
Also wonder how important sex drive is to older guys. My ED still requires cialis or viagra despite being on TRT and levels around 1000. Sex is still important to me, I consider it an indicator of health as well as enjoyment. I plan on being sexually active as long as possible.

 

[Vince]

I'm on 100 mg test cyp weekly, nothing else. I wonder how hcg would impact sex drive and performance.
Also wonder how important sex drive is to older guys. My ED still requires cialis or viagra despite being on TRT and levels around 1000. Sex is still important to me, I consider it an indicator of health as well as enjoyment. I plan on being sexually active as long as possible.

Not all men on TRT use HCG, but eventually most do.

 

[ratbag]

I wonder how hcg would impact sex drive and performance.
Also wonder how important sex drive is to older guys. My ED still requires cialis or viagra despite being on TRT and levels around 1000. Sex is still important to me, I consider it an indicator of health as well as enjoyment. I plan on being sexually active as long as possible.

I had been on TRT for close to 10 years and my sex drive was poor. I could get erections easily but I didn't feel anything. So orgasms were nearly impossible. It was like it was numb. So I started HCG and that made an improvement at the same time I learned that my Progesterone and DHEA was below range so my MD told me to supplement that as well. I use very little progesterone but I now take 25mg DHEA daily and now it feels like I'm 16 years old again. I have amazing orgasms that I thought were a thing of the past.

Of course the wife is none too thrilled about this, but I sure am. In the years it took to learn all this I found that HCG and DHEA contribute to a feeling of well-being. They both improved my cognitive function, memory, mood and mental skillset. I am upbeat and my mood has changed substantially. I have read on a few sites that this was the case but I can now confirm it to be true... at least for myself.

So to put it all into perspective for my situation. The key to getting back to normal was in this order... TRT, HCG, DHEA and progesterone. I am calm and relaxed without any anxiety or stress. I still have a thyroid issue but we are working on that.