Manage E2 without sensitive test.

[AndrogenicFortress]

Hello,

Basically: there is no sensitive E2 test in my country.
Last week I did two blood tests for e2 in two different labs, the difference was WAY too high.

First test (CLIA, no electro):
47 pg/ml <80 pg/ml

Second test (ECLIA):
81.8 pg/ml 25.8-60.7 pg/ml

Both where on the same day, they were consecutives in fact (with some 30/45 minutes of difference).


Before this, I took a test with my insurance (ECLIA) and my e2 was 70, but the reference values are not acceptable: 25-107 (pg/ml).
I started taking 0.25 Anastrozole with each injection (2x week).

So, the question remains. How can I manage my E2 without a sensitive tests?
Are normal test consistent enough to be helpful at all? Always taking a test in the same place, at the same day of the week and hour.

By the way, I'm doing SubQ 125mg x 2/wk (total of 250 per week).


Thanks

 

[Vince]

We know the worst thing to do is crashing your estradiol levels. I believe it's better to have too high of E2 levels then too low. So be extremely careful when using an AI, watch for symptoms. Not much help.

 

[Vince Carter]

Hello,

Basically: there is no sensitive E2 test in my country.
Last week I did two blood tests for e2 in two different labs, the difference was WAY too high.

First test (CLIA, no electro):
47 pg/ml <80 pg/ml

Second test (ECLIA):
81.8 pg/ml 25.8-60.7 pg/ml

Both where on the same day, they were consecutives in fact (with some 30/45 minutes of difference).


Before this, I took a test with my insurance (ECLIA) and my e2 was 70, but the reference values are not acceptable: 25-107 (pg/ml).
I started taking 0.25 Anastrozole with each injection (2x week).

So, the question remains. How can I manage my E2 without a sensitive tests?
Are normal test consistent enough to be helpful at all? Always taking a test in the same place, at the same day of the week and hour.

By the way, I'm doing SubQ 125mg x 2/wk (total of 250 per week).


Thanks

The thing I would steer you too is that in this post this little snapshot of things you're merely focused on a number and that's almost always a fallacy, i.e., you've not stated a negative symptom or anything else with this level of Estrogen.

 

[blitzen]

As you are taking 250mg T a week 0.25mg twice a week sounds like a reasonable starting dose.
I was prescribed 3*50mg T with 3*0.15mg Anastrozole later bumped to 2*90mg T with 2*0.25mg Anastrozole

 

[Vince Carter]

250 a week is TOO MUCH

 

[Weasel]

Take the advice of the 2 Vince's. They are both very correct.

250mg is not TRT.

I accidentally went down the low e2 road and it was a living hell. Even just looking at the bottle of anastrozole makes me feel like shit after that experience.

 

[Sean Mosher]

As said above tread very very carefully when suppressing estrogen.
You have plenty of room to lower your T dose first which I think would be your best move first.

 

[blitzen]

while 250mg is unusually high I find the "is not TRT" a little premature. With an extreme high SHGB etc.it might be needed.
The real starting question would be what is the Total T and the Free T
And always take into account that some people feel good with lower TT/FT and others need over the range values.

 

[blitzen]

That dose almost definitely requires and AI, and it's trickier with that factor. I prefer a high dose that I barely need any AI on. I've learned what elevated e2 feels like to me. I take an 1/8th of a pill as needed, and I'm great on this protocol. Last thing I'm gonna risk is low e2. Much worse than high for me. May drop my dose a hair to eliminate the ai altogether.

How much is 1 pill and 1 pill of what? I'm on AI right now which got me to an E in the 30s but I will look into reducing/dropping it once I and the dose have stabilized (just started 1/2 year ago).

 

[AndrogenicFortress]

The thing I would steer you too is that in this post this little snapshot of things you're merely focused on a number and that's almost always a fallacy, i.e., you've not stated a negative symptom or anything else with this level of Estrogen.

The symptoms:
It started with a kinda itchy / kinda little pain in nipples.
A lot of oiliness all over, especially shoulders and face (need to wash my face 3 to 4 times a day), with increasing acne.
Feeling tired, needing to sleep + 10hs a day.
Really weird and incredible strong cravings, some days I ate more than 5k and 4k was my medium to feel full (my base is 2500 calories), chocolate and sweet things specially. I'm sure that is how a pregnant woman feels. It got so bad that one time I went out from work to buy lots of cookies and another bullshit food and started walking around to eat it all because I was ashamed of it (and showing my lack of self control in the office).
Loss of libido.
And what I would say it's the main one, for me: loss of the feeling of wellbeing. From a little shallow depression, not feeling motivated and just not feeling the love for life that I original got from test. Easily getting bottle up in bs emotions, feeling overwhelmed easily and losing all energy to pursue objectives and projects.

Now this week I'm taking 0.5mg. Craving stopped, I'm myself again and can have healthy eating habits. Energy increased, I can now sleep 8hs and not feel like absolute garbage. Libido and sense of wellbeing both increased but are nowhere near good levels, just not crappy.

while 250mg is unusually high I find the "is not TRT" a little premature. With an extreme high SHGB etc.it might be needed.

The real starting question would be what is the Total T and the Free T
And always take into account that some people feel good with lower TT/FT and others need over the range values.

SHGB is not that high.
I know 250mg is high, max dose is 200mg, but I have pharma ampoules of 250mg. Making 200 x week would be a pain to orchestrate (every week) requiring either that I throw the other 50mg or saving in a syringe across multiples weeks (not a fan of the idea).

Bloods:
SHBG: 23.7 nmol/LMen: 13.5-71.4
Total test: 13.10 ng/ml2.49 - 8.36
Free test: 1.378 nmol/l 0.174 - 0.672
Hematocrits: 46.1 % 40 - 54
HDL: 47 mg/dl >60 optimal, > 40 safe
LDL: 93 mg/dl <130 optimal


For what I read, in this forum. If lab is ok and you are feeling good, then there is no real problem with high dosage. Besides that 250 vs 200 is not a lot more.

 

[AndrogenicFortress]

A general question:
Why all the preference for high estradiol instead of low?
I understand that crashing it is an absolute nightmare and living in hell.
But it’s not permanent, on the other side gyno it actually is and you need surgery to really cure it.

 

[CoastWatcher]

A general question:
Why all the preference for high estradiol instead of low?
I understand that crashing it is an absolute nightmare and living in hell.
But it's not permanent, on the other side gyno it actually is and you need surgery to really cure it.

Gynecomastia, diagnosed, is exceedingly rare for men on TRT. It haunts many, but is rarely seen. Nipple sensitivity is NOT at all unusual when TRT is initiated and can present occasionally during the course of therapy. I'm over three years into my regimen and have "nipple flashes" every few months.

Estradiol isn't a waste product men have to suppress. Healthy levels are necessary for sexual performance, cognitive function, and skeletal health. My e2 level had fallen so low for so long that I was diagnosed with osteopenia at the same time my hypogonadism was confirmed.

 

[at15]

If you only choose to use 250 mg amps, you must spread the shot out more to achieve trt. 250 mg every 10 days will likely be suitable. Test your levels at trough and determine if you need e9d, e10d, e11d, etc.

 

[Weasel]

A general question:
Why all the preference for high estradiol instead of low?
I understand that crashing it is an absolute nightmare and living in hell.
But it's not permanent, on the other side gyno it actually is and you need surgery to really cure it.

Personally I prefer higher (40's) as I simply feel better.

 

[Tommy Wall]

Many of us also use 250mg amps and it¨s very easy to draw the amount out and prefill (front or back filling) syringes or buy sterilized vials on ebays etc...

 

[Davet]

I live in the UK which doesn't have the sensitive test...at first I had no E2 control in my regime and crashed big time ...anxiety,BP up you name i had it...My general Gp had never even heard of e-control...so now I work with a Harley street doc and run .25mg twice a week and boy do you know it when you hit the sweet spot ....like chalk and cheese ......it takes trial and error until you hit it...then you start to know when you are dialed in correctly....baby steps all the way though.

 

[AndrogenicFortress]

I live in the UK which doesn't have the sensitive test...at first I had no E2 control in my regime and crashed big time ...anxiety,BP up you name i had it...My general Gp had never even heard of e-control...so now I work with a Harley street doc and run .25mg twice a week and boy do you know it when you hit the sweet spot ....like chalk and cheese ......it takes trial and error until you hit it...then you start to know when you are dialed in correctly....baby steps all the way though.

When trying to dial in, how often do you make changes?
I try to do 1 change every 2 weeks, at most.

And how big of a change?

 

[Davet]

Uk labs

When trying to dial in, how often do you make changes?
I try to do 1 change every 2 weeks, at most.

And how big of a change?

baby steps...and keeping an eye on all other levels...had labs done every 12 wks for a period. T level steady at the top end of the range. SHBG in check...HCT within range but sitting at upper level...e2 readings (for what they are worth) mid to upper...libido good, night/morning wood good, workout recovery good....mood good.
It can take while to get dialed in but stick with it...if you drop your E2 to low you will know it...you will feel like crap...

 

[DannyManUK]

190mg is just about T.R.T is highest end dose possible i believe i could be WRONG on that, and i was on 190mg with Sustanon which is 95mg every 5 days for about 1 month or so, ESTROGEN wasn't to bad at first, but it eventually shot up though now to what it currently is, i did use a LOT of Dim lately which does help metabolize and lower it too an extent, and of course Arimidex (Anastrozole) etc.

Erectile quality is now better to some DEGREE! brain fog is Kinda less, meaning estrogen lower i don't how much lower. I would definitely like to get the sensitive (E2) test in U.K if anyone has discovered such Clinic or lab in U.K please i have phoned around considerably without success finding place.

 

[CoastWatcher]

TRT – How to Control Oestrogen? - The Men's Health Clinic

Dr. Stevens offers it.