Low libido?!?

[mr.majestyk]

Hello everybody!

I have been lurking around this forum for years, trying to educate myself on everything testosterone.

I am hypothyroid following a lyme infection, - or whatever that really is - which has also left me with a host of other challenges.
My hormones are generally completely depleted including estrogen. So for years I have contemplated going the TRT route.

But.... I dont have any erection issues! - shitty hormone levels or not. My desire is not great, but I can always get a good hard erection, - and since Just trying to deal with thyroid issues is a complete shitshow, - I have been weary about starting test, before educating myself as much as possible. I like my northpole.

But... What from what I see on this forum particularly - and others - it seems that people have a LOT of erection and libido problems AFTER starting TRT! - I thought it was supposed to be the other way around?!

I read AGELESS MAN and some years back also Hertoghes hormone bible which tout the miracle of testosterone and how it will make you a superheroic stud! And both of these books promote very simple, quite straightforward protocols - and nothing like these superintricate protocols that are being discussed on this forum.

So what the hell is going on? - or whats going WRONG in so many guys therapy?

I dont mean to come off sounding like some negative douche, - but Im honestly perplexed about all of this, - and I dont feel confident trying to start this therapy - even though I could maybe benefit from it....??!

 

[Systemlord]

it seems that people have a LOT of erection and libido problems AFTER starting TRT! - I thought it was supposed to be the other way around?!

The majority of men on T replacement don’t have problems. You mostly only see men having problems on these forums, because why seek out a forum when not having problems?

So what the hell is going on? - or whats going WRONG in so many guys therapy?

Too numerous to list everything, bad protocols, underlining deficiencies and untreated, undiagnosed medical problems that lead to the low-T not being addressed.

Remember, low-T is a symptom of something larger going on under the surface, so by going on TRT you’re circumventing a disease process. I just posted a reply in another thread, man has been on TRT for an awhile and doesn’t feel good all the time. He doesn’t want to put in the work to get better, eat healthy, workout, he would rather take TRT, drugs to fix the problem, not correct the lifestyle that lead to a poor state of health.

I was no different, I didn’t put in the work in the beginning and therefore wasn’t getting better, until I started changing my lifestyle.

 

[Systemlord]

I read AGELESS MAN and some years back also Hertoghes hormone bible which tout the miracle of testosterone and how it will make you a superheroic stud!

Lol, testosterone can help make you the man you want to be, but if you don’t have those qualities to begin with, a stud isn’t in the cards. The same thing is true for an alpha male, that’s something you’re born into and no amount of testosterone will make you an alpha male.

 

[jayt]

Hello everybody!

I have been lurking around this forum for years, trying to educate myself on everything testosterone.

I am hypothyroid following a lyme infection, - or whatever that really is - which has also left me with a host of other challenges.
My hormones are generally completely depleted including estrogen. So for years I have contemplated going the TRT route.

But.... I dont have any erection issues! - shitty hormone levels or not. My desire is not great, but I can always get a good hard erection, - and since Just trying to deal with thyroid issues is a complete shitshow, - I have been weary about starting test, before educating myself as much as possible. I like my northpole.

But... What from what I see on this forum particularly - and others - it seems that people have a LOT of erection and libido problems AFTER starting TRT! - I thought it was supposed to be the other way around?!

I read AGELESS MAN and some years back also Hertoghes hormone bible which tout the miracle of testosterone and how it will make you a superheroic stud! And both of these books promote very simple, quite straightforward protocols - and nothing like these superintricate protocols that are being discussed on this forum.

So what the hell is going on? - or whats going WRONG in so many guys therapy?

I dont mean to come off sounding like some negative douche, - but Im honestly perplexed about all of this, - and I dont feel confident trying to start this therapy - even though I could maybe benefit from it....??!

man I am 73 been on TRT for years....10+ I use Cialis and for a special good time I inject trimix.... rock hard for 1-2 hours... see a Urologist for a prescripton... I get the trimix by prescription at a local compounding pharmacy...cheap $90 for 5 vials...each vial is good for 5 or so injections.....believe me once you get over the needle into your dick, which really does not hurt....you will thank me... my lady cums at least twice and if I feel generous maybe up to 4 times...she has total regained her vaginal wetness. go for it. go on YouTube and google trimix injections, they have videos of how to do it and talk results. God Bless

 

[mr.majestyk]

The majority of men on T replacement don’t have problems. You mostly only see men having problems on these forums, because why seek out a forum when not having problems?


Too numerous to list everything, bad protocols, underlining deficiencies and untreated, undiagnosed medical problems that lead to the low-T not being addressed.

Remember, low-T is a symptom of something larger going on under the surface, so by going on TRT you’re circumventing a disease process. I just posted a reply in another thread, man has been on TRT for an awhile and doesn’t feel good all the time. He doesn’t want to put in the work to get better, eat healthy, workout, he would rather take TRT, drugs to fix the problem, not correct the lifestyle that lead to a poor state of health.

I was no different, I didn’t put in the work in the beginning and therefore wasn’t getting better, until I started changing my lifestyle.

What you are saying makes a lot of sense!

I myself obviously have other underlying issues, although I've always eaten healthy, taken good nutraceuticals, and taken good care of myself - I've been in martial arts since I was ten, - but have been dealing with mystic CFS, Lyme, low thyroid - whatever - symptoms on and off for more than ten years.
So the terrain is maybe not even conductive to begin with for TRT.

And I am worried about messing up my libido. I am 52 years old, - and libido is something which is still working normally.

So its a question of whether the potential benefits with TRT for my joints, energylevels etc. - is worth potentially jeopardizing my libido....

Because it seems like its not something you just 'try out'... once you start, it seems pretty clear - especially at my age - that you probably never go back to base levels again afterwards.
What do you think?

 

[mr.majestyk]

man I am 73 been on TRT for years....10+ I use Cialis and for a special good time I inject trimix.... rock hard for 1-2 hours... see a Urologist for a prescripton... I get the trimix by prescription at a local compounding pharmacy...cheap $90 for 5 vials...each vial is good for 5 or so injections.....believe me once you get over the needle into your dick, which really does not hurt....you will thank me... my lady cums at least twice and if I feel generous maybe up to 4 times...she has total regained her vaginal wetness. go for it. go on YouTube and google trimix injections, they have videos of how to do it and talk results. God Bless

I am happy that you have a great sex life at your age! Thats awesome!

I dont have erection issues, - and thats really my biggest concern in regards to TRT.

So when you say that you have been on TRT for years, - and ten+ years on cialis - are you mentioning that,- because you believe that the years of TRT are responsible for the need for cialis and the trimex?

Now I have never tried cialis, - but I see that its part of a lot of peoples daily protocols on this forum, - and from what I can tell - its not only for increasing Nitric oxide, - but its is being used more as a necessary countermeasure for the testosterone increase. Which is what seems counter to everything that TRT is being promoted as...

 

[Cataceous]

You are right to be cautious. Unless you really are hypogonadal it's easy for TRT to leave you worse off than you were before. We don't have good statistics on this, but I have seen mention of a pretty high "churn" rate in TRT, with guys often switching methods while presumably seeking better results.

What's not usually explained is that exogenous testosterone, particularly in excess, can disrupt many other hormones and systems. At a minimum there is HPTA suppression, with reduced levels of kisspeptin, GnRH, LH and FSH. These hormones may have useful functions on their own, which are then lost, occasionally resulting in symptoms such as poorer libido and sexual function. Testicular atrophy and loss of fertility are common, and hCG is often used to counteract this.

There is a simpler, safer alternative in the form of fast-acting testosterone, such as testosterone nasal gel. TNG let's a man experience higher levels of testosterone without such dramatic suppression of other hormones. At a minimum TNG is a good starting point to see if higher testosterone is really going to be beneficial.

 

[mr.majestyk]

You are right to be cautious. Unless you really are hypogonadal it's easy for TRT to leave you worse off than you were before. We don't have good statistics on this, but I have seen mention of a pretty high "churn" rate in TRT, with guys often switching methods while presumably seeking better results.

What's not usually explained is that exogenous testosterone, particularly in excess, can disrupt many other hormones and systems. At a minimum there is HPTA suppression, with reduced levels of kisspeptin, GnRH, LH and FSH. These hormones may have useful functions on their own, which are then lost, occasionally resulting in symptoms such as poorer libido and sexual function. Testicular atrophy and loss of fertility are common, and hCG is often used to counteract this.

There is a simpler, safer alternative in the form of fast-acting testosterone, such as testosterone nasal gel. TNG let's a man experience higher levels of testosterone without such dramatic suppression of other hormones. At a minimum TNG is a good starting point to see if higher testosterone is really going to be beneficial.

Thats interesting, - especially with the faster acting tests, - I wonder if that would apply to test prop as well?

 

[Cataceous]

Thats interesting, - especially with the faster acting tests, - I wonder if that would apply to test prop as well?

No, with a half-life of ~18 hours, testosterone propionate is too long-acting to avoid HPTA suppression. The half-life probably shouldn't be more than an hour or two to qualify as fast-acting in this context. For example, here's the serum profile for Natesto:



It appears that testosterone troches, delivered either sublingually or buccally, can provide similar profiles.

 

[sammmy]

Do you have labs to post, hormonal, CBC, Metabolic panel etc.

The bodybuilding crowd overhyped the abilities of testosterone to cure everything and nowadays many people think TRT will make them the Superman and magically cure all sorts of problems. Many of those fail because their problems are simply not related to testosterone levels and just pumping up testosterone even above normal range often cannot override and cover the underlying problem.

In medicine, you always have to target the underlying problem, you "treat it" i.e. cover it up or override it only if you can't identify it or can't cure it.

 

[mr.majestyk]

Do you have labs to post, hormonal, CBC, Metabolic panel etc.

The bodybuilding crowd overhyped the abilities of testosterone to cure everything and nowadays many people think TRT will make them the Superman and magically cure all sorts of problems. Many of those fail because their problems are simply not related to testosterone levels and just pumping up testosterone even above normal range often cannot override and cover the underlying problem.

In medicine, you always have to target the underlying problem, you "treat it" i.e. cover it up or override it only if you can't identify it or can't cure it.

Yes I have tons, and tons of labs from the last ten years plus - they have often been done in attempts to diagnose what exact infections - bacterial, viral or otherwise which were causing problems. If you know anything about what kind of shitshow it is to be dealing with anything resembling CFS, lyme, fibromyalgia, etc. - they are more or less garbage-diagnosisis, - like whenever you hear about various syndromes - the same kind of thing. An observable symtom, - where the medical community is kind of in the blind as to what these things really are caused by. And they really dont give a shit, - because Big pharma doesnt care about these things.


My bloods usually show the same kind of thing:

Borderline anemic to anemic,

Testosterone usually in the lower range,
TSH between 3,5 - 8,5
Free t3 - always below range
Total t3 under or just above range
Free t4 just above minumum
Total t4 normal
SHBG - always in the highest range - close to maximum.
DHT - normal or higher ranges. Never above.

Sorry for not being more specific, - but I have too many tests laying around to go through everything. And things tend to change a bit over time, - but the general picture is about the same as what I described above.

Diet wise, - I am eating lots of meat, no dairy, no gluten, lot of greens, - I take a lot different subs, - Dvitamin, magnesium, everything which always being recommended for people dealing with chronic issues.

 

[mr.majestyk]

No, with a half-life of ~18 hours, testosterone propionate is too long-acting to avoid HPTA suppression. The half-life probably shouldn't be more than an hour or two to qualify as fast-acting in this context. For example, here's the serum profile for Natesto:



It appears that testosterone troches, delivered either sublingually or buccally, can provide similar profiles.

I am in northern europe, - and these troches will be impossible to get my hands on here, - but I wonder if I can use cheque drops instead?

 

[sammmy]

I know first hand how contemporary medicine "deals" with syndromes like CFS/Fibromyalgia. Most doctors do not even try to investigate the unknown. I've been severely symptomatic for 3 years, all they did was write in my file that I have "symptoms that are not explained by medicine" i.e. the patient is crazy.

It turned out that my unexplained "syndrome" is bunch of infections: reactivating Varicella virus (no rash), H. Pylori, C. Difficile (from too many antibiotics before that). All these confirmed by tests that I requested or paid for.

You should test your digestive tract with a good PCR stool test for pathogens. I did GI - MAP and it instantly detected the H. Pylori and the C. Difficile. Lots of vague unexplained symptoms originate from the digestive tract. I even got shortness of breath and headaches after meals, due to aberrant digestion, probably due to H. Pylori.

If you have an infection, it usually shows as either suppressed or elevated counts in the Complete Blood Count with Differential.

 

[sammmy]

By the way, H. Pylori infection can cause otherwise unexplained anemia. Typical symptoms are nausea and fullness after meal, burping after meals without having drunk soda, lack of appetite and weight loss, acid reflux that can lead to constant sore throat, weakness due to the anemia.

The best test to detect it is stool antigen or PCR test. The breath test at Dr's office is less sensitive than they claim it to be. In my case it didn't detect any H. Pylori, while the stool PCR and the antigen tests both detected it a few months later.

 

[Cataceous]

I am in northern europe, - and these troches will be impossible to get my hands on here, - but I wonder if I can use cheque drops instead?

I had to look that up—mibolerone. I wouldn't mess with it. Too much potential for unintended consequences. If you can get testosterone powder then you could probably make your own troches. I'm sure there are recipes out there.

 

[mr.majestyk]

By the way, H. Pylori infection can cause otherwise unexplained anemia. Typical symptoms are nausea and fullness after meal, burping after meals without having drunk soda, lack of appetite and weight loss, acid reflux that can lead to constant sore throat, weakness due to the anemia.

The best test to detect it is stool antigen or PCR test. The breath test at Dr's office is less sensitive than they claim it to be. In my case it didn't detect any H. Pylori, while the stool PCR and the antigen tests both detected it a few months later.

I have had several stool tests through the years and they never showed anything. But I have had gut issues for as long as I've had these other things going on. And I've done numerous cleanses for this and that, - and I've eaten countless probiotics, - without much succes.
But I havent done a PCR for the gut. Maybe I should. I know a doctor here who does it.

How did you deal with the H pylori? - metronidazole? - because thats a drug I cant tolerate... I dont tolerate antibiotics very well anymore - I was on them for years, - and it has made me hypersensitive to them now.

 

[sammmy]

I am starting the eradication regimen these days: PPI, Metronidazole, Amoxicillin, every 6 hours. Metronidazole can be switched for another antibiotic depending on the H. Pylori resistance profile.

You should first test for it and if possible obtain the H. Pylori resistance profile. The GI-MAP test that I did showed resistance to Clarithromycin, which is a very common resistance nowadays due to use of Azithromycin for STDs.

 

[sammmy]

For the probiotics, the "pearls" with triple protection layer should work - they deposit in the intestines. The usual probiotics in capsules or tablets are either already dead or they cannot survive the stomach acid.

 

[FLguy123]

I have been wanting to do a full GI test. Did you do this through dr or order these online?

 

[sammmy]

Best is to order through your doctor with a diagnosis code so you can try to bill your insurance. GI - MAP is done by Diagnostics Solutions Lab and they say they bill Medicare but are considered "out of network" with other insurance plans.

I don't think my plan would have covered anything since I have an enourmous deductible for "out of network". So I just found an intermediate site that ordered the test for me, signed by a doctor, it cost me around $400. Note that you will have to interpret the result yourself - there is an interpretive guide on the Diagnostics Solutions Lab site.

The test was worth it because it found all problems that previous tests could not detect and it tested for H. Pylori resistance, which comes handy now when I have to treat it.

If the test finds a pathogen, act immediately, not like me. I knew in January I had C. Difficile and H. Pylori but did not have significant symptoms then, only to develop severe life threatening C. Difficile diarrhea/colitis in March-April. So don't be like me, act immediately if it finds something.