Low DHEA-S levels while on TRT

[Derrick]

I just recently had my labs drawn at my endocrinologist office for DHEA-S, Estradiol, Testosterone serum and free testosterone. Here are my results.

Name Value Reference Range
Testosterone, serum 827 348-1197 (NG/DL)
Free Testosterone Direct 11.8 6.8-21.5 (PG/ML)
DHEA-S 35.5 L 65.7-488.4 (ug/dl)
Estradiol <25.0 (pg/ml)

I'm on TRT 110mg IM every two weeks. My question is should I be taking DHEA while on TRT ? My endocrinologist comments were, even though my DHEA was mildly low, she doesn't recommend treating it since I'm already on testosterone therapy.

 

[Vince Carter]

You're Endo tells you that 35 out of a possible 488 is "mildly low" and apparently doesn't know that DHEA is, UPSTREAM, from Testosterone hormonally...? This person is also treating you with 110mg every two weeks...you need to run from that quack. Seriously.

 

[Gene Devine]

You should be supplementing DHEA and Pregnenolone while on TRT.

Dr. John Crisler calls this "back filling" the pathways.

By putting in Testosterone far down the pathway production of the foundational hormones upstream are compromised so supplementing with a good quality DHEA and Pregnenolone is important.

Read these links as all the information you need is on our site:

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?6657-DHEA-Supplementation

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?6658-Pregnenolone-–-By-Gene-Devine

BTW, Testosterone injections every two weeks is all wrong! You should be injected at least once a week or even better twice weekly in smaller doses and 110 mg every two weeks isn't going to do you any good at all except shut your HPTA down and making matters worse. Your Physician doesn't know TRT in men.

I'd advise to you read everything on this site as you can and self educate yourself and you'll learn why what he's doing is not correct care.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Anabolic steroids and TRT decrease SHBG, DHEA, pregnenolone and progesterone in men.


Taking pregnenolone may help raise DHEA from upstream effects.

Why is your estradiol low?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

The Promise of Pregnenolone

 

[Derrick]

I have no idea why my estradiol is low. I've been on TRT therapy for about 2 yrs now. I just turned 45 yrs of age back in April of this year and my sex drive is not up to par. I've been going to the endocrinologist for about a year and a half with labs drawn regularly. I seriously think that some of these endocrine doctors who don't know much about TRT therapy can learn a lot from guys like you Nelson, you're definitely way smarter than they are, but their ego's are way to big for that and they think they know everything. You've seen my labs that I just recently posted and the only thing I forgot to post was my Prolactin and cortisol. Prolactin is 6.9 Reference range 3.3-20.8 (ng/ml), Cortisol is 15.53 (ug/dl). Should I be taking DHEA along Pregnenolone together to combat the issue that I'm having and if so what dose do you recommend ? I started taking HCG for a little bit, but my know it all endocrinologist suggest that I stop using it due to the lack of scientific evidence as she stated. I really think the reason that she wanted me to stop was due to her lack of knowledge in the use of HCG. what do you think sir ?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I bet pregnenolone may increase your DHEA and estradiol. Good experiment to do.
You can get pregnenolone, DHEA and estradiol tested here (it would be good to do them at baseline and at week 4)

http://www.discountedlabs.com/estradiol-sensitive-lc-ms-ms/

http://www.discountedlabs.com/dhea-sulfate/

http://www.discountedlabs.com/pregnenolone/

Since pregnenolone is the most expensive hormone to test, you can do without it. This test would just tell you if the product you use is real and if they dose is too low or high.

Always ask your doctor if he/she thinks hormone testing like this can be paid by insurance. Some insurance companies are not clear and then you receive a huge bill from Labcorp or Quest after assuming your blood tests were paid for.

Some cash-based clinics will not let you use DiscountedLabs.com since we are cheap and they rather sell labs to you as a profit center.

 

[Vince Carter]

I have no idea why my estradiol is low. I've been on TRT therapy for about 2 yrs now. I just turned 45 yrs of age back in April of this year and my sex drive is not up to par. I've been going to the endocrinologist for about a year and a half with labs drawn regularly. I seriously think that some of these endocrine doctors who don't know much about TRT therapy can learn a lot from guys like you Nelson, you're definitely way smarter than they are, but their ego's are way to big for that and they think they know everything. You've seen my labs that I just recently posted and the only thing I forgot to post was my Prolactin and cortisol. Prolactin is 6.9 Reference range 3.3-20.8 (ng/ml), Cortisol is 15.53 (ug/dl). Should I be taking DHEA along Pregnenolone together to combat the issue that I'm having and if so what dose do you recommend ? I started taking HCG for a little bit, but my know it all endocrinologist suggest that I stop using it due to the lack of scientific evidence as she stated. I really think the reason that she wanted me to stop was due to her lack of knowledge in the use of HCG. what do you think sir ?

I gave you the most likely answer to that question and a recommended course. DHEA and Preg are lesser players in your chief complaint...Ed/Libido/etc.., but you should absolutely supplement those. Start with 25mg DHEA/25mg Preg in a micronized capsule.

 

[Derrick]

Thanks for the advice sir. I have one more question ? Have you ever heard of men using progesterone cream to combat high estrogen dominance ? I just recently read an article that stated progesterone antagonizes estrogen and is also the most potent known inhibitor of the enzyme 5-alpha-reductase, which converts testosterone into dihydrotestosterone (DHT). By blocking 5-alpha reductase, progesterone promotes higher levels of testosterone in your body. what's your intake on this ?

 

[Vince Carter]

I can't think I've heard of anyone using progesterone cream. I personally think it's not necessary and not wise for me to supplement with that particular hormone, and I've not experienced the supposed antagonizing(?) for Estrogen. As it relates to DHT, think of it this way...DHT is something like 10X more androgenic than Testosterone and is responsible for everything male, being male. You don't ever want to interfere with 5AR activity or otherwise block DHT. Except in cases of prostate cancer and hairloss but by and large DHT and 5AR are not things to be tamped down. Further as DHT is all things male...Progesterone is likewise for females...there's no reason to even go there.

 

[ERO]

I have read that as well and the logic seems sound, but I am always low E2 so I have not experimented myself.

Also, you need to start injecting T every 3.5 days at a minimum instead of every 2 weeks. Ask your Endo about his math skills - Test Cyp has an effective half-life of around 6 days, so how well would one shot every 14 days work?

 

[Vettester Chris]

Agree with the comments above ... Preg is upstream and works proactively with filling pathways as noted by Gene, and is especially useful for additional adrenal support, being the KEY hormone for producing both Cortisol and DHEA.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Thanks for the advice sir. I have one more question ? Have you ever heard of men using progesterone cream to combat high estrogen dominance ? I just recently read an article that stated progesterone antagonizes estrogen and is also the most potent known inhibitor of the enzyme 5-alpha-reductase, which converts testosterone into dihydrotestosterone (DHT). By blocking 5-alpha reductase, progesterone promotes higher levels of testosterone in your body. what's your intake on this ?

Are you dealing with elevated E2?

 

[Derrick]

I have no idea why my estradiol is low. I've been on TRT therapy for about 2 yrs now. I just turned 45 yrs of age back in April of this year and my sex drive is not up to par. I've been going to the endocrinologist for about a year and a half with labs drawn regularly. I seriously think that some of these endocrine doctors who don't know much about TRT therapy can learn a lot from guys like you Nelson, you're definitely way smarter than they are, but their ego's are way to big for that and they think they know everything. You've seen my labs that I just recently posted and the only thing I forgot to post was my Prolactin and cortisol. Prolactin is 6.9 Reference range 3.3-20.8 (ng/ml), Cortisol is 15.53 (ug/dl). Should I be taking DHEA along Pregnenolone together to combat the issue that I'm having and if so what dose do you recommend ? I started taking HCG for a little bit, but my know it all endocrinologist suggest that I stop using it due to the lack of scientific evidence as she stated. I really think the reason that she wanted me to stop was due to her lack of knowledge in the use of HCG. what do you think sir ?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Thanks for your kind words.

I do not think I am smarter than anyone. I just think that anyone who focuses more than 10,000 hours on any subject becomes an expert (quoting Malcom Gladwell).

I would take 50 mg per day of DHEA to increase your blood levels not only of DHEA but also estradiol.

Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) Supplementation in Elderly Men: A Meta-Analysis Study
I would print the two files I attached to the first post on this thread and give a copy to your doctor:

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...e-Testicular-Shrinkage-and-Preserve-Fertility

I forgot to ask you. When did you get your blood drawn in comparison to when you inject? I doubt that 110 mg every two weeks can get you to 800 ng/dL right before the next injection (lowest level).

 

[Derrick]

Your right, my blood was drawn a week before my next injection. So at a week out from my next injection, it would put me at around 800 (nd/dl). I also didn't mention that I did have my blood drawn 1 day before my next injection in week 2 in which my test levels would be low. When I received those results, sure enough my testosterone serum was 200 (ng/dl). That explains why my endo wanted me to get my blood drawn a week out from my next injection just to see if My levels were still low and if so, I would make adjustments in my dose regime. However, my levels were fine as you could see 1 week out from my next dose. I recently watched your video on HCG and Test given at the same time using an Insulin syringe. I always thought that test cypionate had to be given IM. I have always self injected into the right Glute. I never knew one could use an insulin syringe and give it subcue due to the tiny gauge, making it difficult to draw up an oil base fluid and length of needle not being long enough to penetrate deep into the muscle. My question is, if giving it subcue in the deltoid, is it as effective as giving it Gluteal IM with a standard 21 gauge in deep tissue ?

 

[ERO]

There is no difference in effectiveness between deep IM and SubQ (or semi-SubQ as shoulders can be, depending upon one body fat %)