lab results for IM vs SQ ED protocols....

[BillyJ03z]

Just got back lab results... and I now have blood work for Test Cyp SQ ED, IM ED, and Test Prop SQ ED..

Test CYP @ 30MG SQ ED
Total Test- 728 (264 - 916)
Free Test- 26.0 (6.8 - 21.5)
SHBG- 28

Test Prop @ 20MG SQ ED
Total Test- 468
Free Test- 16.2
SHBG- 22

Test Cyp @ 40mg IM ED ( I was actually on EOD protocol but had labs checked 24hrs after inj)
Total Test- 643
Free Test- 23.3
SHBG- 21

I didn't include DHT and Estrogen because there are too many variables going on with me as I was recently using HCG about a month prior to recent testing and my E2 levels are elevated high, and I was also using Adex during my IM protocol as I had skyrocketing E2 from previous DHEA supplemenation...

 

[CoastWatcher]

How do you feel on these respective protocols?

 

[BillyJ03z]

How do you feel on these respective protocols?

Well, it's hard to say... I have been dealing with Hypo type symptoms the entire time I have been on TRT (9+ years) which may have been all due to E2 problems (still dealing with now). So with that being said..... The only difference I could really feel between all of them was strength and maybe mood and I felt strongest on Prop SQ followed by CYP SQ and then mood wise I felt better on Cyp IM...

I think I may be converting more E2 with SQ than IM based on my most recent labs.. but there was also some variables at play as I was using HCG 3x wk for 2months and stopped about a month before the latest labs so that may have contributed to high E2 levels I have.

Basically I just posted these labs so that people could get a general idea how IM vs SQ looked.

 

[Gman86]

Appreciate this post. I love when people experiment with themselves to progress TRT forward.

You should of used a little higher dose with the prop. 30mg of cyp, equals about 21mg of testosterone. 20mg of prop equals about 16mg of testosterone.

Have you considered trying to see what it would be like to be on prop and have better levels? Maybe get your free T into the mid 20’s?

Also, is dropping HCG a possibility? To try and lower E2? I dropped HCG 3 months ago or so and haven’t noticed any downsides. I think I feel better off of it.

 

[BillyJ03z]

Appreciate this post. I love when people experiment with themselves to progress TRT forward.

You should of used a little higher dose with the prop. 30mg of cyp, equals about 21mg of testosterone. 20mg of prop equals about 16mg of testosterone.

Have you considered trying to see what it would be like to be on prop and have better levels? Maybe get your free T into the mid 20’s?

Also, is dropping HCG a possibility? To try and lower E2? I dropped HCG 3 months ago or so and haven’t noticed any downsides. I think I feel better off of it.

I started taking HCG because I thought it would help with the brain fog/memory, libido, etc.... but didn't notice any difference with HCG except looking a little more puffier from water retention....

I loved Prop but basically stopped because of the PIP... sometimes I wouldn't have any reaction but then sometimes it felt like I got shot by a shot gun and if I injected SQ in thigh I couldn't walk comfortably for a few days...

On the flip side, The CYP SQ seems to produce higher test levels than PROP... as you stated I am only basically injecting 5mg more of pure test using CYP over Prop and my FT is 40% higher... I guess the esters are allowing the Test to hang around longer.. but also my SHBG increased from 21 to 28 as well which is a good thing...

 

[Gman86]

I started taking HCG because I thought it would help with the brain fog/memory, libido, etc.... but didn't notice any difference with HCG except looking a little more puffier from water retention....

I loved Prop but basically stopped because of the PIP... sometimes I wouldn't have any reaction but then sometimes it felt like I got shot by a shot gun and if I injected SQ in thigh I couldn't walk comfortably for a few days...

On the flip side, The CYP SQ seems to produce higher test levels than PROP... as you stated I am only basically injecting 5mg more of pure test using CYP over Prop and my FT is 40% higher... I guess the esters are allowing the Test to hang around longer.. but also my SHBG increased from 21 to 28 as well which is a good thing...

Honestly I would try dropping the HCG. I also thought I needed HCG for backfilling hormones, to keep testicles full, to have a better libido, to have more ejaculate, etc. But now that I’ve been off of it for 3-4 months, I notice no difference in any of those areas. My testicles didn’t even get smaller. They are the exact same size as when I was on HCG. I think I’ve honestly only noticed that I feel a little better. Or at least the same. So I would try dropping it. For me, I think it’s allowing me to not need an ai, which is amazing.

And trust me, I know exactly what you’re going through with the PIP! When I first started prop i was injected in the outter part of my thigh, where there’s very little fat, and the muscle is very dense, and the PIP was insane! I literally was going to stop using prop because I couldn’t deal with the pain. I was extremely sad, because I really loved the idea of prop. I then tried injecting more into the top of the thigh, where the muscle is less dense, and there’s a little more fat on top of the muscle, and it was night and day! I still had a little PIP, but it was totally manageable. I was so relived, because I knew I could continue to use prop. And then after a couple weeks I started to not get any PIP at all. It was so weird. And that has continued to this day. It’s like my body has gotten used to the prop or something. I haven’t changed the location of the injections, or the brand of prop, or the needle size or anything. And I’ve only ever done IM with prop. So not sure why I don’t get any PIP anymore, but it’s obv amazing. I honestly still get a little PIP sometimes, but it’s basically nothing. Doesn’t effect me at all. I’m using empower’s prop btw.

Ya it’s only a 5 mg difference, but that’s a 35mg difference per week. And not a 35mg total difference including Esthers, that’s a 35mg difference of straight testosterone. That’s a huge difference. And I’m not 100% positive, but I don’t think it works as linearly as we think. I don’t think if you raise your dose 40%, your total and free T will both raise by 40%. I could be wrong on that obv. But the body is complicated.

What I would do if I were you, is stay on prop, inject it IM, raise the dose to around 25-30mg daily, and drop the HCG all together. And then get labs done in a couple months.

 

[BillyJ03z]

Honestly I would try dropping the HCG. I also thought I needed HCG for backfilling hormones, to keep testicles full, to have a better libido, to have more ejaculate, etc. But now that I’ve been off of it for 3-4 months, I notice no difference in any of those areas. My testicles didn’t even get smaller. They are the exact same size as when I was on HCG. I think I’ve honestly only noticed that I feel a little better. Or at least the same. So I would try dropping it. For me, I think it’s allowing me to not need an ai, which is amazing.

And trust me, I know exactly what you’re going through with the PIP! When I first started prop i was injected in the outter part of my thigh, where there’s very little fat, and the muscle is very dense, and the PIP was insane! I literally was going to stop using prop because I couldn’t deal with the pain. I was extremely sad, because I really loved the idea of prop. I then tried injecting more into the top of the thigh, where the muscle is less dense, and there’s a little more fat on top of the muscle, and it was night and day! I still had a little PIP, but it was totally manageable. I was so relived, because I knew I could continue to use prop. And then after a couple weeks I started to not get any PIP at all. It was so weird. And that has continued to this day. It’s like my body has gotten used to the prop or something. I haven’t changed the location of the injections, or the brand of prop, or the needle size or anything. And I’ve only ever done IM with prop. So not sure why I don’t get any PIP anymore, but it’s obv amazing. I honestly still get a little PIP sometimes, but it’s basically nothing. Doesn’t effect me at all. I’m using empower’s prop btw.

Ya it’s only a 5 mg difference, but that’s a 35mg difference per week. And not a 35mg total difference including Esthers, that’s a 35mg difference of straight testosterone. That’s a huge difference. And I’m not 100% positive, but I don’t think it works as linearly as we think. I don’t think if you raise your dose 40%, your total and free T will both raise by 40%. I could be wrong on that obv. But the body is complicated.

What I would do if I were you, is stay on prop, inject it IM, raise the dose to around 25-30mg daily, and drop the HCG all together. And then get labs done in a couple months.

I had already dropped the HCG about a month ago... Also, another factor that is at play may be the location of my SQ injections.. when I was injecting the PROP SQ I was using belly and upper thighs.... when I was injecting CYP SQ I was using exclusively the upper part of the Buttox into the fat pads which was recommended by one of the doctors on here in one of the threads... The Dr had stated that absorption is better in the buttock/fat pad and apparently for me it is as evidenced by my Test/FT levels... like I said I only injected 5mg more of pure test and the total/free test levels were over 40% higher so it's clearly not anecdotal...

As on now, I dropped the Cyp to 20mg SQ ED and added AI (adex) 3x week (.25mg)... I may revisit prop again at a later time especially since I am injecting into buttock/fat pad where pain is basically non-existent (also, I still have a bottle and half of CYP left, lol)....

 

[Gman86]

I had already dropped the HCG about a month ago... Also, another factor that is at play may be the location of my SQ injections.. when I was injecting the PROP SQ I was using belly and upper thighs.... when I was injecting CYP SQ I was using exclusively the upper part of the Buttox into the fat pads which was recommended by one of the doctors on here in one of the threads... The Dr had stated that absorption is better in the buttock/fat pad and apparently for me it is as evidenced by my Test/FT levels... like I said I only injected 5mg more of pure test and the total/free test levels were over 40% higher so it's clearly not anecdotal...

As on now, I dropped the Cyp to 20mg SQ ED and added AI (adex) 3x week (.25mg)... I may revisit prop again at a later time especially since I am injecting into buttock/fat pad where pain is basically non-existent (also, I still have a bottle and half of CYP left, lol)....

Sounds like a good plan to me. Hopefully you start seeing improvements soon, and feel more dialed in.