Just started with defy

[SAB]

Hello all , longtime lurker and wanted to say what a great forum. A little background for the last 3 years I have been doing 50mg x 2 a week. This has kept my T levels around 600-750 and my sensative E2 around 30-35. My main complaints are weak erectile function and moodiness. BTW I am 36 years old. So I saw Dr. Saya and he was great. He set me on a regimen of T 60mg x 2 a week , 4unit of HCG x 2 a week. , and .25mg of anaztrozole x 2 a week. My question I did my first complete regimen this week and noticed increased urination and some sweating spells. Along with feeling a little off. I know it is to soon to tell but would this be normal? I am assuming it is the anaztrozole lowering estradiol. As I weigh myself daily at the same time of the day, I lost about 3.5lbs in 2 days. Does it take a minute for the body to adjust to lower estradiol. I am nervous of going to low , but We both thought I may be sensative to E2. Some times I get a odd itch on my left nipple and I also had a small lump as well. Which my GP had a ultrasound and a mammogram done. The reports stated possible early signs of gyno.

 

[Vince Carter]

Youll have a bit of a bumpy ride as you adjust, there were some significant changes made in your protocol so stick with it and get those labs in ~6 weeks. I know Defy says 90 days but you can get your own labs and be more informed.

 

[SAB]

Thanks for the reply, does E2 come down that fast? Just real curious about the increased urination and odd sweating out of no where.

 

[ERO]

Anastrozole can lower your E2 quickly. If you are curious use Discounted Labs and check your levels in another week or two. You need to wait the 4-6 weeks for your body to fully adjust, but it wont hurt to check things now to be sure your E2 is not tanked into single digits.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Welcome to Excelmale. You have, indeed, made significant changes to your protocol and your body is going to react and adjust to those changes over time. You may be experiencing a lowering of your estradiol, I experienced that through dose and schedule manipulation; Anastrozole would likely accelerate that process. It will be interesting to see where it settles on your current regimen. As Vince Carter and ERO noted, I would self-test all levels in six weeks.

Good luck.

 

[johndoesmith]

I believe E2 will decrease from anastrozole pretty quickly, I want to say about 24-48 hours. I am not 100% positive on that, but I do recall many anecdotal(for what that's worth) experiences of other guys posting that after having high E2, anastrozole made them feel better in a day or 2.

I'm surprised that Dr. saya gave you an AI when your E2 was pretty much spot on, most people shoot for a T/E2 ratio of 20. I have full faith that Dr. saya knows what he's doing. Maybe call Defy, let them know your concerns?

They're pretty good at working with you, although I don't think you'll be able to speak to Dr. Saya without an appointment, I haven't needed to ask Dr. saya anything yet. All of the questions I've had were pretty easily answered by the MA.

 

[Vince Carter]

Anastrozole works right away and has a half-life of about 50hours.

 

[Fireproof]

I'm surprised that Dr. saya gave you an AI when your E2 was pretty much spot on, most people shoot for a T/E2 ratio of 20. I have full faith that Dr. saya knows what he's doing. Maybe call Defy, let them know your concerns?

He was already at 30-35. Which is the high end of the 20-35 range they typically like to see. And then he was increasing Test dosage by 20mg/week and also adding 800 iu of HCG. One would expect his e2 to climb above current level, based on those changes. So adding a small dose of AI doesn't seem out of line to me.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

He was already at 30-35. Which is the high end of the 20-35 range they typically like to see. And then he was increasing Test dosage by 20mg/week and also adding 800 iu of HCG. One would expect his e2 to climb above current level, based on those changes. So adding a small dose of AI doesn't seem out of line to me.

^^ This is exactly true...in addition to the fact that SAB seems to be very sensitive to upper range E2 levels so a slightly more aggressive approach is warranted.

SAB- the changes you are noticing may in fact be signs your estradiol is creeping a bit too low, but also often occur as the body simply acclimates to lower estradiol levels. The body does take some time (typically at least 4-5 weeks) to truly balance out with changes in a regimen. The only way to truly know is to check labs, as members have noted, but wait at least 4-5 weeks to obtain accurate data.

Another note to our patients, ANY of our patients can order labs at ANY time simply by contacting the office. I have never said "no" to a patient wanting to be proactive and order labs (even "early" or outside of the standard lab follow-up timeline). The standard follow-up lab timeline is just a guideline (and a cap on the UPPER limit of when we require labs), early labs are ALWAYS okay with me (given the 4-5 week wait after adjustments) especially if there are any signs/symptoms to warrant an early check.

 

[SAB]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I was just concerned a little because I never lost that much water before and the sweating spells are a little odd. Are there any other triggers I should look for that would point to low e2? I know Dr Saya stated sore joints was one. Also A big thanks to Dr. Saya , I have never had a Doctor be so infomative and listen to what I had to say.


Also good note about labs Dr. Saya to be able to request early from Defy

 

[Vince Carter]

Labs from Defy are easy, my insurance has a "Lab Card" that is honored by Quest. I ask for a list of labs, Defy writes me a script (no charge), and I take it and get blood drawn. Depending on your finances, or insurance if you're lucky enough, you can get all the labs you want. Discountedlabs has great prices.

 

[SAB]

On a side note , How long does it take to start to notice erectile function benifits from lower E2 if it were high. Also the same goes if it goes to low , when do you notice a decrease in erectile function?

 

[PAUL-E]

everyone's a little different my self I would notice changes within one to two weeks, there are a lot of factors however like how far off you where what AI and how you respond. they say it takes about 4-6 week to stabilize

 

[johndoesmith]

^^ This is exactly true...in addition to the fact that SAB seems to be very sensitive to upper range E2 levels so a slightly more aggressive approach is warranted.

SAB- the changes you are noticing may in fact be signs your estradiol is creeping a bit too low, but also often occur as the body simply acclimates to lower estradiol levels. The body does take some time (typically at least 4-5 weeks) to truly balance out with changes in a regimen. The only way to truly know is to check labs, as members have noted, but wait at least 4-5 weeks to obtain accurate data.

Another note to our patients, ANY of our patients can order labs at ANY time simply by contacting the office. I have never said "no" to a patient wanting to be proactive and order labs (even "early" or outside of the standard lab follow-up timeline). The standard follow-up lab timeline is just a guideline (and a cap on the UPPER limit of when we require labs), early labs are ALWAYS okay with me (given the 4-5 week wait after adjustments) especially if there are any signs/symptoms to warrant an early check.

I am sorry for second guessing what you are doing, I hope I didn't come across as thinking I know more than you!

It's great to know that you are fine with patients requesting labs at anytime, as I am a patient. I kind of sensed that you would have that mindset regarding patients and labs.

I can attest to Defy honoring what Dr saya said, I scheduled a follow up, and when asking about labs I asked if a few vitamin panels could be added to the follow up labs. Absolutely no problem there.

 

[Vince Carter]

On a side note , How long does it take to start to notice erectile function benifits from lower E2 if it were high. Also the same goes if it goes to low , when do you notice a decrease in erectile function?

More experienced people, claim, to be rather intuitive and dose themselves with Anastrozole based on night/morning erections but I think that that comes with a great deal of experience and a long amount of time reaching a stable point that only needs small tweaks. Again you really can't judge anything at this point, getting going and being consistent and getting labs is job 1 right now.

 

[trt4me]

For me I know that 2 weeks is enough for me to do labs for e2 adjustments.
Only issue is you have to think that even at that 2 weeks I could still be going down on e2 and over shoot it so I have learned to keep a log of everything and go by feel.
But you have to start somewhere and it seems your in a good spot.
.25 x2 week Ana took my e2 from 42 to 20 and a very similar protocol.

 

[SAB]

For me I know that 2 weeks is enough for me to do labs for e2 adjustments.
Only issue is you have to think that even at that 2 weeks I could still be going down on e2 and over shoot it so I have learned to keep a log of everything and go by feel.
But you have to start somewhere and it seems your in a good spot.
.25 x2 week Ana took my e2 from 42 to 20 and a very similar protocol.

So are things for you better at 20 than 42 on the E2 level?

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

I am sorry for second guessing what you are doing, I hope I didn't come across as thinking I know more than you!

Absolutely no worries johndoesmith! I didn't even come close to taking it that way. BTW, second guessing is a good thing...that's what brought most of the members to this forum - second guessing their doctor/treatment and deciding to educate and empower themselves.

 

[johndoesmith]

Absolutely no worries johndoesmith! I didn't even come close to taking it that way. BTW, second guessing is a good thing...that's what brought most of the members to this forum - second guessing their doctor/treatment and deciding to educate and empower themselves.

That's great to hear, honestly. It's so hard to find a doctor that can even listen, let alone handle a patient questioning them. I'm glad I chose defy.

 

[trt4me]

So are things for you better at 20 than 42 on the E2 level?

I think I do better around 25 or so but at some point you know by feel unless you get constant labs. But yes I feel better when in lower than 30. Also I believe the test to e ratio can matter.
Also it helps with acne greatly for me which is a huge indicator for me that my e2 is high, test is low or the ration is off.