Is your TRT Clinic a PILL MILL??

[granger]

while many folks enjoy pill mill attitude to essentially get legal steroids or "high end" T levels. I think ALOT of guys go to a TRT clinic thinking they are getting "healthy" and smart DRs... It seems to me many TRT if not most are simply pill mills, same as with opiate pill mills make people FEEL better, they aren't actually focused on health and give 97% of people an RX.

FAR to many 25 yo walk in not really understanding long term consequences and because a DR gave it to them they assume its keeping it 100% as the kids say...

I will say im all for folks to be able to do what they want and appreciate the benefit of taking pharma steroids vs street gear aswell as at least SOME blood work and oversite as a harm reduction. however i think it is FAR to easy with these pay to play shiney clinics that make kids want to take the "special smart" Drs drugs who are giving bad advice selling testosterone as a cure all for every mental and physical ache you have....you know what else cures everything? heroin/oxy etc...lol feel no pain, can work out harder to physical/mental labor easier never get a cough or runny nose and lowers your IGF enough to make you skinny and live longer and give you vigor AND no stress. ever see the rolling stones? red hot chilli peppers? RFK? i am only semi kidding of course.

anyway, taking a step back, and not just appreciating the ease to get on TRT etc, is your clinic essentially a pill mill? does it up sell you vitamins and add ons? does it require you to use THEIR pharmacy? did they start you at over 100mg a week? are alot of guys who use the clinic getting over 200mg a week? remember more of MANY drugs makes you FEEL even better, but may not be the best for your health... you may be supporting a pill mil for all intents and purposes im afraid. Where there is more and more clinics and more and more $$$, only a matter of time before corruption and greed take over.. around here at least DRs dont need to spend add dollars to stay as busy as they want to be(esp if wonderful Drs)... food for thought at very least

 

[Phil Goodman]

I use Defy Medical and my experience has been wonderful. Much better than my experience with the standard GPs I’ve encountered throughout my life. They monitor bloodwork, take time to listen to any concerns I have, and are open to suggestions/concerns from my side without pushing things on me. I’ve always had elevated ALP levels since my 20’s. Not once has a doctor(GP) provided any insight or thoughts into what may be causing it. Even though it had to nothing to do with hormones, he gave me some different things to look into that may be causing it and things to bring up during my annual visit with my GP. I’m on a modest dose and it keeps me near the top of the range without going over. And while he doesn’t push any products on me, he does listen to my concerns and is willing to provide me with any skincare products or other things I’d like to try. Plus I get 45 minutes of guidance and dialogue with him during my consultations. The whole process is great and an example of how doctor/patient care should be conducted.


Now counter that with the standard model of healthcare in this country. You call out hormones clinics for being pill mills. Today millions(literally millions) of children in America will take amphetamines given to them by their doctor. In 2019 over 10% of female teenagers took an anti-depressant( and that number is climbing way higher every year). Basically 1/4 of all college students are taking antidepressants, anti-anxiety medications, and/or mood stabilizers. It’s as bad or worse for adults. The list goes on and on. Hundreds of millions of doses of mRNA injections that didn’t prevent infection or spread of a disease, offered a very small window, of protection, and introduced tons of risks were given out…and still recommended for all Americans(even children).



So I’d say the country would be much better off if our healthcare system was structured like my clinic. And if you want to talk about pill mills, look no further than your closest doctors office.

 

[aneuman]

does it up sell you vitamins and add ons? does it require you to use THEIR pharmacy?

I have been to the doctor's office of a very reputable university, with a very reputable doctor, one of the most cited in these forums, who's written lots of papers and which I consider very knowledgeable, but stopped going there because he will dedicate less than 5 min talking to me, he will have the answers before knowing the questions, and he will also use a compounding pharmacy for everything, even when I had insurance. I asked him if he could send the prescription to CVS and he told me "we don't use CVS, we only use our pharmacy" (one of the big compounding pharmacies everyone talks about).

By the way, my doctor seems very reasonable and knowledgeable on YouTube, and I don't question his credentials at all, just his practice. I have read all of his papers, they are all very interesting and thought provoking. I just wished he were with me in person the same way he's on YouTube.

So it seems to me at least, that nowadays pretty much everybody is a pill mill when it comes to testosterone and male sexual health. Little risk, big rewards. The main difference between a more reputable doctor's office and a T mill (which are typically not run by doctors) is that a true doctor may be more conservative with dosages and may not start people on 200 mg/week and Anastrazole and Clomid right off the bat. They may usually start with 100 mg a week and as long as you are between 500-900 ng/dL they will treat you, they probably won't case how you feel, but if the numbers right, they are good. T-Mills usually want a trough of 1200 ng/dl or above.

I asked my PCP for example if they did TRT, he said yes, but they require you go to the office to get a shot, so he advised me I continue what I was doing because it was cheaper. At least he was honest.

I recently change to another Andrologist in another reputable hospital that I consider my "drug dealer" because I give him the protocol and he fills the prescription, but it is me who puts all the rationale behind the treatment, he simply agrees. On the bright side, he uses any pharmacy I ask him, so I manage my costs.

Your mileage may vary. That's my experience.

 

[granger]

@Phil Goodman agreed with adderal.. and its not about whats better or worse 2 seperate things can be bad in isolation I was one of those kids who was RXd amphetamines... being normally a nice guy when strung out on amphetamines you get hulk angry on come downs so they want to give more drugs for that lol.. Do they work and give you lazer focus and superman abilities to complete tasks? yup, they do, just think it burned out my adrenals and reward system/dopamine... I think its also a symptom of our culture more then DRs, need a quick fix and teachers dont have tools/$$ to engage these kids..

on a side note a comedian on a podcast a young influencer was talking about anxiety and the older guest was like are you taking adderal? he laughed and said "how do you know" the comedian was lke because all you young kids are on adderal and then complain of anxiety, so lay off teh speed and anxiety will go away lol... i mean the nazis gave the SS speed aswell to make good workers. but i digress, happy you are happy with your clinic!!! good ones are def out there!

@aneuman yes often the people who write the most papers are the most crooked of the bunch, and often the fast talking salesman as often the case the BEST scientists dont get as much funds as the good story tellers/sales pitchers(why gov funding is critical to science and a big part of why conservative gov are bad for progress of science). there was a Dr "who was the best/did research/published" but when asked he said he just tried his best to prove what the drug company wanted him too.. lol flat out. he was a phyciatrist so an 'interesting' guy and gave vitamin drips charged to the gov for peoples mental health 35 years ago which is sorta a good thing I guess? he had nicest car and biggest house though.... unfortunate teh lay person has know way of knowing if the fast talking Dr IS good or just very good at talking/selling their ideas. IMO why its always important to have them explain themselves and how they ruled something else out.

I mean every single person who goes to a TRT clinic WANTS to be diagnosed with low T, dont want the DR to say change your diet/sleep better and we will do a few more tests over the next year. They want 1 low blood level and get that 150mg ASAP. I wonder how many people ask about if its a pituitary or lifestyle issue or perhaps 1 low test. That makes people HAPPY so they like that DR.. esp when they are under 30-35 yo and think the T is a cure all and will make them live better longer, when in reality the people who actually get longevity benefits are the older guys who actually need the T to maintain any sort of physical activity, and those are teh guys it helps with diabetes and heart disease/weight management the most. if that makes sense. just like people over BMI of 35 are going to see the biggest benefit from ozempic and any possible dangers (which there are and there will be even more that come out once off patent in 5 or so years) are negated because of how much longer they will live and disease progression that is slowed by no longer being obese. VS the folks with BMI of sub 30 going on it. Just like we see all teh time the 30yo go on TRT had a normal sex drive and no ED, and now require MORE medication because of ED, more medication because of blood levels of E BP etc etc. very real concern its making them sicker even though have more energy and focus, JUST like kids and adderall.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

while many folks enjoy pill mill attitude to essentially get legal steroids or "high end" T levels. I think ALOT of guys go to a TRT clinic thinking they are getting "healthy" and smart DRs... It seems to me many TRT if not most are simply pill mills, same as with opiate pill mills make people FEEL better, they aren't actually focused on health and give 97% of people an RX.

FAR to many 25 yo walk in not really understanding long term consequences and because a DR gave it to them they assume its keeping it 100% as the kids say...

I will say im all for folks to be able to do what they want and appreciate the benefit of taking pharma steroids vs street gear aswell as at least SOME blood work and oversite as a harm reduction. however i think it is FAR to easy with these pay to play shiney clinics that make kids want to take the "special smart" Drs drugs who are giving bad advice selling testosterone as a cure all for every mental and physical ache you have....you know what else cures everything? heroin/oxy etc...lol feel no pain, can work out harder to physical/mental labor easier never get a cough or runny nose and lowers your IGF enough to make you skinny and live longer and give you vigor AND no stress. ever see the rolling stones? red hot chilli peppers? RFK? i am only semi kidding of course.

anyway, taking a step back, and not just appreciating the ease to get on TRT etc, is your clinic essentially a pill mill? does it up sell you vitamins and add ons? does it require you to use THEIR pharmacy? did they start you at over 100mg a week? are alot of guys who use the clinic getting over 200mg a week? remember more of MANY drugs makes you FEEL even better, but may not be the best for your health... you may be supporting a pill mil for all intents and purposes im afraid. Where there is more and more clinics and more and more $$$, only a matter of time before corruption and greed take over.. around here at least DRs dont need to spend add dollars to stay as busy as they want to be(esp if wonderful Drs)... food for thought at very least

I don't know of any guys going to T clinics to get legal steroids. Why bother, these places aren't even cheap. There are so my UG sites and forums who sell very cheap UG steroids where you need no doctor or pharmacy there is just no need. For $35-$45 you can get very good quality steroids, and as much as you want. Steroids are not hard to find. The only thing I see with these T clinics is more and more men who suffer the side effects from having low T can more easily get help. Its very hard to find doctors who will delve into this area. This has put a very devastating male issue in the spot light. What might help is our medical school start training doctors in this area.

Here is a quick BING search: purchase cheap anabolic steroids - Bing

 

[granger]

I don't know of any guys going to T clinics to get legal steroids. Why bother, these places aren't even cheap. There are so my UG sites and forums who sell very cheap UG steroids where you need no doctor or pharmacy there is just no need. For $35-$45 you can get very good quality steroids, and as much as you want. Steroids are not hard to find. The only thing I see with these T clinics is more and more men who suffer the side effects from having low T can more easily get help. Its very hard to find doctors who will delve into this area. This has put a very devastating male issue in the spot light. What might help is our medical school start training doctors in this area.

Here is a quick BING search: purchase cheap anabolic steroids - Bing

crazy, alot of influencers are/do. huge guys who obv have no issue with testosterone levels and are under 30 yo using these clinics to get "legit" test. i was being semi hyperbolic with the 'steroids', rather guys just wanting bigger muscles and arent super hypogonadal. like folks going to weed clinics for "sleep" issues in the early days 25 yo with tie dye shirt on and had no issue getting weed before but wanted to get "legal" weed.

 

[Phil Goodman]

@Phil Goodman agreed with adderal.. and its not about whats better or worse 2 seperate things can be bad in isolation I was one of those kids who was RXd amphetamines... being normally a nice guy when strung out on amphetamines you get hulk angry on come downs so they want to give more drugs for that lol.. Do they work and give you lazer focus and superman abilities to complete tasks? yup, they do, just think it burned out my adrenals and reward system/dopamine... I think its also a symptom of our culture more then DRs, need a quick fix and teachers dont have tools/$$ to engage these kids..

on a side note a comedian on a podcast a young influencer was talking about anxiety and the older guest was like are you taking adderal? he laughed and said "how do you know" the comedian was lke because all you young kids are on adderal and then complain of anxiety, so lay off teh speed and anxiety will go away lol... i mean the nazis gave the SS speed aswell to make good workers. but i digress, happy you are happy with your clinic!!! good ones are def out there!

@aneuman yes often the people who write the most papers are the most crooked of the bunch, and often the fast talking salesman as often the case the BEST scientists dont get as much funds as the good story tellers/sales pitchers(why gov funding is critical to science and a big part of why conservative gov are bad for progress of science). there was a Dr "who was the best/did research/published" but when asked he said he just tried his best to prove what the drug company wanted him too.. lol flat out. he was a phyciatrist so an 'interesting' guy and gave vitamin drips charged to the gov for peoples mental health 35 years ago which is sorta a good thing I guess? he had nicest car and biggest house though.... unfortunate teh lay person has know way of knowing if the fast talking Dr IS good or just very good at talking/selling their ideas. IMO why its always important to have them explain themselves and how they ruled something else out.

I mean every single person who goes to a TRT clinic WANTS to be diagnosed with low T, dont want the DR to say change your diet/sleep better and we will do a few more tests over the next year. They want 1 low blood level and get that 150mg ASAP. I wonder how many people ask about if its a pituitary or lifestyle issue or perhaps 1 low test. That makes people HAPPY so they like that DR.. esp when they are under 30-35 yo and think the T is a cure all and will make them live better longer, when in reality the people who actually get longevity benefits are the older guys who actually need the T to maintain any sort of physical activity, and those are teh guys it helps with diabetes and heart disease/weight management the most. if that makes sense. just like people over BMI of 35 are going to see the biggest benefit from ozempic and any possible dangers (which there are and there will be even more that come out once off patent in 5 or so years) are negated because of how much longer they will live and disease progression that is slowed by no longer being obese. VS the folks with BMI of sub 30 going on it. Just like we see all teh time the 30yo go on TRT had a normal sex drive and no ED, and now require MORE medication because of ED, more medication because of blood levels of E BP etc etc. very real concern its making them sicker even though have more energy and focus, JUST like kids and adderall.

Do you have any numbers for how many people under 30 get prescriptions from trt clinics? You say they are just shopping around for testosterone, but honestly it would be much easier(and cheaper) for them to get it on the black market. Sure there are examples of bad clinics, but at the same time you are using a very broad brush and trying to paint it in the worst light possible while ignoring how much better positioned many of these places are to handle hormonal treatments for people. Seems like a weird thing to do on a forum designed to help people learn about testosterone therapy and other hormonal issues.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

Agreed 100% Here is a sample of what UG site can charge for what we commonly use. Why would anyone spend what TRT shops charge? Makes no sense. Especially when you can go to a site like this and find quite a few reputable UG sources available. You don't have to even see a doctor, have insurance and you can do your own blood work.

Professional Muscle - Bodybuilding Forum

Discuss everything Muscle Gain, Strength, Fat Loss, Supplements, Steroids, and Pro Bodybuilding & Powerlifting at Professional Muscle Forum

www.professionalmuscle.com

Now, would I buy from any of these shops on PM? Hell no. These places operating in the public like that are huge targets. I also think they are bad for the whole business. It all needs to be hidden as much as possible.

UG prices:
Testosterone Cypionate 250mg/ml, 10ml 10ml x 250 mg/ml/vial $17
Testosterone Enanthate 250mg/ml, 10ml 10ml x 250 mg/ml/vial $17

 

[Cataceous]

... Why would anyone spend what TRT shops charge? ...

Here's a reason:

Federal Law:​

By way of the steroid Control Acts, applying to all federal courts, simple possession of anabolics [without a prescription] is a felony offense. First time offenders are subject to punishment of a minimum $1,000 fine and up to one year in prison. If the individual is a second time offender, his fine will be $2,500 with a maximum two year prison sentence. For those who possess more than two prior convictions, the fine is doubled to a minimum $5,000 and prison time to extend to a possible maximum three year mark. It is important to note, simple possession is any amount.[R]​

​

Enforcement may be minimal, but you're still vulnerable to selective prosecution, or to anyone wanting to make trouble for you.

 

[granger]

Do you have any numbers for how many people under 30 get prescriptions from trt clinics? You say they are just shopping around for testosterone, but honestly it would be much easier(and cheaper) for them to get it on the black market. Sure there are examples of bad clinics, but at the same time you are using a very broad brush and trying to paint it in the worst light possible while ignoring how much better positioned many of these places are to handle hormonal treatments for people. Seems like a weird thing to do on a forum designed to help people learn about testosterone therapy and other hormonal issues.

just from life experience and tuff to know as RX are up like 30% over past several years so in general more RX are given. seems like largest increase is PHYS assistants and nurse practitioners. As i said I see influencers brag online how they got there legal test RX big guys who clearly dont need test and under 30yo and gym bros know about all these clinics even if previously never injected and don't REALLY need it. they also tend to downplay any risks and only highlight how good you'll feel...

not weird at all. folks should keep their spidey sense up as your clinic may not be looking after your health, rather making you FEEL better.. which isn't always the same thing.. and should be aware of the difference and how to distinguish a dr who gives you what you want vs treating a medical problem..

As I said, is a TRT clinic much better than self administering ? 10000%. Also cant conflate folks who are "Drug seeking" vs actually disaballing hypogonadal. Also I even stated many good clinics just MANY seem to be pill mills. not all.SOME. esp if land in the criteria i stated.

again, i will mention how folks who had easy access to cannabis also went into clinics to pay higher prices to buy dispensary cannabis just cause it was legal and had some oversite. so there is very much a market just for legal reasons, nevermind when a DR tells you to take it, it means you should and 100% all good.

I guess i am more concerned folks dont educate themselves enough, get into an echo chamber about T online and don't consider the risks. all about access to drugs, just think in general education needs to be higher. This goes particularly for those under 35 yo even more so if under 30yo..

 

[Phil Goodman]

just from life experience and tuff to know as RX are up like 30% over past several years so in general more RX are given. seems like largest increase is PHYS assistants and nurse practitioners. As i said I see influencers brag online how they got there legal test RX big guys who clearly dont need test and under 30yo and gym bros know about all these clinics even if previously never injected and don't REALLY need it. they also tend to downplay any risks and only highlight how good you'll feel...

not weird at all. folks should keep their spidey sense up as your clinic may not be looking after your health, rather making you FEEL better.. which isn't always the same thing.. and should be aware of the difference and how to distinguish a dr who gives you what you want vs treating a medical problem..

As I said, is a TRT clinic much better than self administering ? 10000%. Also cant conflate folks who are "Drug seeking" vs actually disaballing hypogonadal. Also I even stated many good clinics just MANY seem to be pill mills. not all.SOME. esp if land in the criteria i stated.

again, i will mention how folks who had easy access to cannabis also went into clinics to pay higher prices to buy dispensary cannabis just cause it was legal and had some oversite. so there is very much a market just for legal reasons, nevermind when a DR tells you to take it, it means you should and 100% all good.

I guess i am more concerned folks dont educate themselves enough, get into an echo chamber about T online and don't consider the risks. all about access to drugs, just think in general education needs to be higher. This goes particularly for those under 35 yo even more so if under 30yo..

Again, I agree that there are plenty of bad clinics out there. However, I would also reiterate that many are great and much better at helping people with hormonal issues than their doctor. And I agree 100% with your statement about people being better advocates for their own health. They need to do research and study the pros and cons for themselves and not just believe whatever the doctor tells them. And while you point out harm from irresponsible clinics there is also a lot of harm being done by doctors who tell very guy who walks in their door with testosterone levels at 300 that they’re perfectly normal.


But again you don’t have numbers to back up your claims that “many IF NOT MOST” of these clinics are just pill mills. Or to back up your claim that “97% walk out with a prescription”. And yes I know you didn’t mean literally 97%, but understand that your point is that basically everyone gets one. If you send 100 25 year olds into most of these places I’d bet that a small amount of them get testosterone prescribed, and if they did their numbers would be really low for their age(though even then I would disagree with that being the first approach at that age). But instead you seem to be basing it on influencers. First of all, if you’re basing your views and reality on influencers then you’re going to have a distorted view. Secondly, if they are super jacked then they are almost certainly on more than just test and/or taking a lot more than is given by prescription. So they are likely being dishonest about a lot of things, not the least of which is where they’re getting their compounds.


So sure, we agree that there are some bad clinics. And we agree that wholeheartedly that people should be their own best advocates when it comes to health. However, I think you’re exaggerating the issue based on little more than social media influencers. And I’d say the data supports this because from what I’ve seen almost all new prescriptions given out over the past few years have been to guys that are 40+.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

Here's a reason:

Federal Law:​

By way of the steroid Control Acts, applying to all federal courts, simple possession of anabolics [without a prescription] is a felony offense. First time offenders are subject to punishment of a minimum $1,000 fine and up to one year in prison. If the individual is a second time offender, his fine will be $2,500 with a maximum two year prison sentence. For those who possess more than two prior convictions, the fine is doubled to a minimum $5,000 and prison time to extend to a possible maximum three year mark. It is important to note, simple possession is any amount.[R]​

​

Enforcement may be minimal, but you're still vulnerable to selective prosecution, or to anyone wanting to make trouble for you.

No doubt there is a risk, but the sheer amount of people selling large amounts of steroids and the amount of UG labs in the USA alone is very high. The DEA is not very interested in small fish. I use less than 10mg of test U per year, personal use. Not so much interested in taking me out. Nor am I going to pay $1000 a year for a TRT clinic when my co-pay for a doctor is only $10, 4 times a year. Blood testing is paid by insurance. Insurance has made it impossible to continue getting testosterone, CVS has also made it hard. I have plenty of legal scripts, but not going to beg anyone to fill my prescriptions. For guys like me that were forced into the underground 30 year ago, why worry now. I got fed up with my insurance medical review board determining what I need and don't need. My doctor diagnosed me androgen deficient and that is good enough. I had most all of the symptoms, yet now I have been forced to the UG but idiots that are not my doctor. Unlike most, I don't have a tolerance for all of this and have other options. I see so many young guys in the gyms buying stuff from gym dealers. Some are not willing to pay these rip off T center fees. Its honestly a shame that this happens but it is surely out of our control.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

Again, I agree that there are plenty of bad clinics out there. However, I would also reiterate that many are great and much better at helping people with hormonal issues than their doctor. And I agree 100% with your statement about people being better advocates for their own health. They need to do research and study the pros and cons for themselves and not just believe whatever the doctor tells them. And while you point out harm from irresponsible clinics there is also a lot of harm being done by doctors who tell very guy who walks in their door with testosterone levels at 300 that they’re perfectly normal.


But again you don’t have numbers to back up your claims that “many IF NOT MOST” of these clinics are just pill mills. Or to back up your claim that “97% walk out with a prescription”. And yes I know you didn’t mean literally 97%, but understand that your point is that basically everyone gets one. If you send 100 25 year olds into most of these places I’d bet that a small amount of them get testosterone prescribed, and if they did their numbers would be really low for their age(though even then I would disagree with that being the first approach at that age). But instead you seem to be basing it on influencers. First of all, if you’re basing your views and reality on influencers then you’re going to have a distorted view. Secondly, if they are super jacked then they are almost certainly on more than just test and/or taking a lot more than is given by prescription. So they are likely being dishonest about a lot of things, not the least of which is where they’re getting their compounds.


So sure, we agree that there are some bad clinics. And we agree that wholeheartedly that people should be their own best advocates when it comes to health. However, I think you’re exaggerating the issue based on little more than social media influencers. And I’d say the data supports this because from what I’ve seen almost all new prescriptions given out over the past few years have been to guys that are 40+.

Amen! For that matter we have quite a few bad medical doctors out there, as well as bad hospitals and I live in a city with the largest medical center in the world. In the past 3 years I have been through 3 medically inept cardiologist who couldn't even recognize that I had a blood clot in my leg and now 3 orthopedic surgeons because they can't even do a simple thing like giving a shot of cortisone. This is why ALL patients need to educate themselves and keep their eyes open dealing with the medical profession. People need to learn to think for themselves and question everything your doctor tells you. Get 2nd and even 3rd opinions for problems. There are a lot of scammers out there and they always love to prey on those who are desperate for help. Life-extension is a big one an injuries are increasing as us older people are more active. Those of us over 50 are easy targets.

Look at all the stem cell clinics who's prices are so high you need to finance them like an auto. We need to be very careful going to any of these clinics. If they don't take insurance you need to ask them why. TRT is covered by most all insurance and is definitely covered by Medicare, so why to they not take insurance? OK, I understand, cash can't be traced as easily as insurance payments.

This is why, I know bodybuilders who have opened TRT clinics and don't even have a doctor in the clinic, just a RN or PA. The made a deal with a doctor to supervise with out ever showing up for work. The doctor is just available on paper. We have a chain of cheap clinics here in Houston that operate like this too, they cater to our rather large Hispanic population and only take cash. The doctor owns the clinics but never shows up and has PA's and RN running every thing. They rubber stamp his name on all prescriptions and orders. This place prints money and is basically a scam. We need to all learn to critically think and not fall into these scams.

However, on the other side we do have some damn good doctors here and top of the line clinics and hospitals, You just have to find them.

 

[granger]

Can you share the data that "ALMOST ALL" is guys over 40+? esp over past 10 years would be great to see. THANKS!

Thanks big tex I think everyone is on the same page and we all should be concerned about the rise of such bad clinics/pill mills.. found a paper that those nurse PE clinics have seen the largest rise in RX for testosterone (up until 2019 anyway and im sure only exploded 2021 on).

lets just say my point is TRT pill mills are far less than 0, and are growing at fairly obviously at a decent clip.

yes houston is where all the compounding conferences are as bleeding edge of healthcare, no doubt!

One thing, that really raised my eyebrows is the owner of the inflamous "ways to well" now i know they arent a TRT clinic specifically, but the guy who owns it, "as we age we need to supplement peptides as they are just aminos".. wooooh now buddy. now i get he is not a DR. but he basically was saying he overcharged insurance companies to get "what he deserved" and wonders why they sue him... and also about peptides thats a pretty blanketed statement that everyone needs to inject peptides as deficient. not every old person needs insulin peptide, or ozempic, or HGH... just too much a slick talker and that type of "clinic" all though im sure many people feel better which is wondereful, may not have health at top of there list, rather hauk gear to anyone who will buy into the sales pitch. but again, he was not a DR, but generally when the owner has a philosophy a good # of the Drs tend to lean in a direction to do what makes the clinic the most money.

Some of the best most ethical Drs will do nothing, took me a long time to learn that. I remember one time i was 20 something in UNI, ive always had bad sleep and often will become a cycle that gets worse.. I went to the DR was like man i cant sleep i cant function I do cardio 3 times a week and walk like over an hour each day, so he said do more... never gave me anything, but looking back, i prob was hung over, drank basically every other day so no wonder i couldn't sleep and he had no way to know if i REALLY had sleep issues or was just stressed from school and partying or if I was just drug seaking 20yo. Its not like i was doing shift work at the mine and my schedule is mor likely to be messed up. anyway, I dont lump him as a bad dr as i used to.

also in my 20s i was having arythmias presenting as a heart attack severe chest pain left arm pain, waking me up, went to ER they said no will take too long here go to walk in, went to walk in took an XRay, said no ur chest is clear (Which i knew as didnt have a cough etc) BUT i was on antibiotics, that just happen to give arrhythmias also possible it was a carditis from a viral infection they gave me antibiotics for who knows. anyway, i stopped antibiotics after i read about rare side effect of arrhythmia and like magic the pain went away in 8-12 hours... was pretty annoyed the DR wouldnt of thought of this as he knew i was on antibiotics.. how much damage was done? i don't know. but from then on i knew you have to self advocate spend the time learning, and really press Drs iwth questions

 

[Deleted member 43589]

Can you share the data that "ALMOST ALL" is guys over 40+? esp over past 10 years would be great to see. THANKS!

Is this directed at me? If so, it sure would be helpful if you quoted the exact posting. I post a lot and at 68 I tend to forget what the hell I saw a few times. Most people I know are over 40. In the past 10 years especially.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

I have another nonbiased report from a web site that ranks online pharmacies. This particular pharmacy I have dealt with for may 10 years. I discovered them by chance and made a couple of small purchases. Impressive. Again, they have gone to a great extent to hide their location. The guy I deal with has an Indian accent but the money I send when I make purchases goes to a bank in Hong-Kong. The sell a huge variety of Indian medication. So who knows. They have Trustpilot sites set up and quite a few countries where customers are encourage to evaluate them and all are very good. This site gives them "Trustworthy" and 5 stars. The are #28 in a big list of ranked online pharmacies.
by.pharma.ma. This place came through during the pandemic offering large quantities of Ivermectin and HCQ along with all the ZePaks etc you needed. We got stocked up in January of 2021 long before all the propaganda hit the media.

Buy-Pharma Reviews - 5.0 Stars

5 reviews for Buy-Pharma, 5.0 stars: 'I have been purchasing regularly from Buy-Pharmacy for over 5 years. They are very reliable, communicate well, have great savings & fast delivery. They have saved me heaps on my various pharmaceuticals & can supply items not available in Australia at all. (...

www.sitejabber.com

Now who is the only one making complaints? Not customers but the FDA did send them a letter in 2021 that no doubt was tossed in the trash and quickly forgotten because they were selling medication that had not been proven to cure or mitigate Covid-19, despite all the research that was available at the time showing successful mitigation. This is what drew so many customers to them at the time. I know a guy who bought literally 1000's of each to sell to guys who had gotten sick or feared they would and guess what, it worked, not one died and no one went to the hospital. My wife and I included. The FDA even referred to it as NEW MEDICATION, when both products were invented and approved by the FDA many decades ago. I guess this is called off-label use.....kind of common in medicine. This letter was highly politically driven which show 100% how politically motivated our FDA really is. Got to pay to play. Anyway, the FDA could not find a physical address to send this silly, worthless letter to so they addressed it to their web site. No doubt it was never sent.

 

[Phil Goodman]

Can you share the data that "ALMOST ALL" is guys over 40+? esp over past 10 years would be great to see. THANKS!

Testosterone and "Age-Related Hypogonadism"--FDA Concerns - PubMed

Testosterone and "Age-Related Hypogonadism"--FDA Concerns

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Deleted member 43589]

Hey, guys there are TRT pill mills out there.

Hormone Therapy, North Texas - Elite Wellness & Anti-Aging

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CELINA, Texas — A Celina doctor and eight other people were indicted on federal drug distribution charges, U.S. Attorney Damien Diggs announced Thursday.

Celina doctor, eight others indicted on federal drug distribution charges, officials say

If convicted, the nine individuals each face up to 20 years in federal prison.

www.wfaa.com

You get what you pay for. Look at the price of peptides? RIPOFF.

Shop - Elite Anti Aging and Wellness

hormonetherapyntx.com

 

[Phil Goodman]

One thing, that really raised my eyebrows is the owner of the inflamous "ways to well" now i know they arent a TRT clinic specifically, but the guy who owns it, "as we age we need to supplement peptides as they are just aminos".. wooooh now buddy. now i get he is not a DR. but he basically was saying he overcharged insurance companies to get "what he deserved" and wonders why they sue him... and also about peptides thats a pretty blanketed statement that everyone needs to inject peptides as deficient.

Do you have a quote or other source that shows where he made that claim about everyone needing to peptides??


I may not agree with everything he says, but he makes a TON of great points about the issues with our current system, and how we don’t have a healthcare system, but rather a sick care system. Look at the state of public health over the past 40 years. The results speak for themselves. So the only conclusions you could possibly come to is that they are so incompetent that they caused the worst healthcare outcomes in human history, or that they realize what they are doing but don’t care enough to stop because they prioritize profits over health. I’d say it’s a combination of the two, but clearly the 2nd factor contributes more because they aren’t that dumb. So yeah, I’d say the owner of Ways 2 Well has a much better approach and system with regard to helping patients. And again, the results of our current system are not debateable.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

I am also having trouble finding videos of all those influencers etc that claim they get testosterone from T clinics and don't even need it. I would like to see a couple of those so I can have a good laugh. Of course I have never been a huge fan of internet influencers and these testosterone gurus who are out to collect "hits." A fool is born every minute.

You know, I use to have a mentor that always repeated the phrase "Caveat emptor" I have done a whole lot of traveling all over the world when I was a competing athlete. What I saw in so many countries is you could literally walk into any pharmacy and buy testosterone or most other drug you needed. The pharmacists were always there to help you and seem to be very knowledgeable. While America criticized these pharmacies and their drugs, most of us who have traveled extensively recognize that these pharmacies are as good of better than those here in America and doctors and hospital are also very good. The sad part is they are also much less expensive that what we see in America. We need a good dose of critical thinking in this country so we are not lead around by our nose like sheep. Sad retired people who have worked so hard all their lives have to travel outside the USA to get medical treatment. Prescription prices might fall for a change if we didn't have so many middle men in our pockets.

When I was dating my wife who lived in Buenos Aires, Argentina there was an elderly couple who we met in my hotel. The were there for medical surgery for the husband. Retired people who could not afford this procedure in America so they traveled there to get it done. They were very impressed with the doctors and absolutely impressed with the Swiss owned hospital they went to and said it was equal to anything they had seen in America. I also was considering taking a teaching job at a Catholic Hospital in Goana, Brazil. The had a huge medical school on campus and I got a tour of the hospital. Very impressive and again, equal to anything I saw here. But at the time, Brazil was like Argentina and so many EU countries I have been to where you did not need a doctor or prescription to walk into a pharmacy and get needed medication. I walked right in any pharmacy there and bought what ever medication I needed, My wife even got tramadol a couple of times in Argentina. She use to go to the pharmacy to get injections of Primabolin when she competed. I picked p a source there once who brought in plane loads of vet products for race horses in the Miami area. This guy walked in a local café we met him at and opened up a duffel bag full of a variety of anabolic steroids and sat them on the table. Not one person there even watched what was going on because it was not illegal. Of course I was freaking out. Black market, nope, all phara products from all over the world.

We use to cross the Texas border for year to go to a pharmacy right over the boarder at Nuevo Progresso. The guy working there were very knowledgeable of medicine and we always walked back with two bags of medication. Its probably the biggest reason older tourist go there. I knew these guys so well they started crossing the border with my phone order and mailed to to me from the USA. Back then you could get Soma muscle relaxers. Everything was good and at a very reasonable price.

In America we are all treated like idiots and obviously we are not smart enough to educate ourselves in what medication is needed for common illnesses like a friggin' sore throat. Instead we get a sore throat, have to wait on a doctor to see us, spend $$$ on culture testing, then go to the local CVS and wait all day for them to fill a simple prescription for an antibiotic. By then you sore throat is almost gone. Plus, we have spent $100's just to get a script. Here in Houston, I know quite a few people that go over the border to buy medication, go see doctors and dentist. Why because they are just too expensive here. This is a problem.