I am just about coming to the end of the road with my TRT journey after 11 yrs... I never really enjoyed the benefits that it is supposed to bring... My lipid panels have been horrible (although I did have perfect Lipids on my last blood test when increasing Armour thyroid to 3 grains per day and am in process to see if it continues).... My libido has been up and down, my sleep has been horrible, energy levels erratic (probably tied to lack of sleep), erratic E2 issues, etc.... I have tried weekly, 3x weekly, 2x weekly, EOD, and ED dosing along with IM and SQ.... I've tried Cyp, Cyp/Prop blend and Prop..... I am due to for my script refill (private doctor) and am considering requesting straight prop for ED dosing (11 mg) for final run.. I'm hoping the daily spike and late evening trough will help with sleep and somewhat normalize my daily pattern rather than always remaining high with my current regimen of ED SQ dosing of Test Cyp @ 20mg....
Is Prop legal (prescription) for TRT? One last Hail Mary before calling it quits after 11 yrs.
What are total testosterone and SHBG on the current protocol? Estradiol? What's the lowest dose you've tried? Have you measured progesterone? Propionate is perfectly legal and is ok for TRT in some instances. By itself it's probably not going to turn things around for you, but I have to say I'm finding low-dose propionate (4.5 mg/day) to be pretty reasonable in spite of low trough levels. I think that falling serum testosterone at night helps with my sleep. Pure propionate tends to make serum testosterone vary more than is natural. A blend with cypionate that gets half the testosterone from each ester would dampen the serum variations to more natural levels.
Did you switch from blend back to straight Prop? What are you peak levels on 4.5mg daily?
Yes, it's a test to see if I can reduce or eliminate the use of enclomiphene. The reasoning is that the lower troughs may mean less HPTA suppression and less need for a SERM to force the pituitary to respond to gonadorelin. The transition period was a little rocky, with some mood disruptions and anxiety. But I'm almost at eight weeks now with only 12.5 mg enclomiphene E4D, and subjective results remain good. I haven't taken measurements yet, but intend to. I've been debating what would be most interesting, both with respect to peak vs trough, and where in this enclomiphene cycle to measure LH and FSH. Predicted peak testosterone is low 700s ng/dL and the predicted trough is mid 200s, assuming SHBG is still around 30 nMol/L.
I had posted my labs on here awhile back comparing my time on straight Prop to Cyp... lab results for IM vs SQ ED protocols....
My recent labs (June 2021) 20mg CYP SubQ ED are:
Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum 21.7 nmol/L 16.5-55.9
My recent labs (June 2021) 20mg CYP SubQ ED are:
|
|
Estradiol, Serum | 72 pg/mL | <=40 pg/mL | H |
Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum 21.7 nmol/L 16.5-55.9
Based on your previous numbers with propionate we can make some very crude predictions about what you might see with 11 mg daily. Daily peak serum testosterone could be in the 700s ng/dL, and troughs in the 200s, assuming your absorption rate is typical. I'd previously have had reservations about the low troughs, but as I said above, I've got similar numbers on my current protocol which are not preventing good subjective results.
I hope you can ride out the transition and give the protocol a good couple of months. Given the many other protocols you've tried I think it would be wise to keep expectations in check; hopefully the lower dosing will help with the sleep issues, and at least subtly with other problems. However, it's likely you'll need to look at the bigger picture to really turn things around. For example, if progesterone is suppressed then that could be a contributor to your issues with estradiol. Supplementation can help to restore balance if necessary.
I hope you can ride out the transition and give the protocol a good couple of months. Given the many other protocols you've tried I think it would be wise to keep expectations in check; hopefully the lower dosing will help with the sleep issues, and at least subtly with other problems. However, it's likely you'll need to look at the bigger picture to really turn things around. For example, if progesterone is suppressed then that could be a contributor to your issues with estradiol. Supplementation can help to restore balance if necessary.
Systemlord
Member
You should consider Jatenzo, an oral capsule taken twice daily which gives you varying levels throughout the day.
My Experience On Jatenzo (Oral TRT) Log
The listed side effect of lung/blood clots from Natesto is a big NO for me...
Not any more risk than any form of TRT, as far as I know.
Sergel
Active Member
Testosterone is not the only factor in feeling well. You mentioned thyroid which is one but many other factors influence how we feel as well and it is not all fixable with exogenous chemicals. Sleep disorders are another ball game altogether and will wreck your life and energy levels. Sleep apnea?
Exercise, food, weight, social, stress... many factors in feeling great. After 11 years of trying all sorts of protocols, maybe it's not the testosterone, and coming off after 11 years will not be pleasant...
Maybe if you are stable on a long ester, lets say enanthate/cypionate on a simple, no fuss E3.5D, just get stable at a good level and look elsewhere.
Exercise, food, weight, social, stress... many factors in feeling great. After 11 years of trying all sorts of protocols, maybe it's not the testosterone, and coming off after 11 years will not be pleasant...
Maybe if you are stable on a long ester, lets say enanthate/cypionate on a simple, no fuss E3.5D, just get stable at a good level and look elsewhere.
I agree with your comment, however, I have tried Cyp @ 2x and 3x week at varying doses, etc.... (I am a low SHBG guy and I have found out that that ED dosing does make me feel slightly better than I did with EOD, 2x and 3x a week dosing.) This is why I looked toward boosting Thyroid and added Armour. So far the only noticeable difference with adding Thyroid is that my lipid panels are all within range when they were way out of range when on TRT, so I am increasing from 3 grains to 4 grains and see if that helps with energy, mood, sleep, etc. Also, TRT has wrecked my sleep (I was fine with sleep prior to starting TRT). So like I said, this is my last hooray with attempting to go straight Prop and see if the lowers troughs/fluctuations help...
Before calling it quits, try Trestolone/MENT (7a methyl 19-nor testosterone). It's usually found as an acetate and requires daily dosing in the AM, start at 3mg a day and then titrate up/down weekly as needed.
There have been at least two threads on this compound on this forum from years back.
You are unlikely to find this prescribed \ legally available to purchase and will be forced to look elsewhere to try this.
Plenty of threads on reddit re the profound libido increases, mood increases etc on MENT without the side effects of high T.
Do some research and give this a try as a last ditch effort.
There have been at least two threads on this compound on this forum from years back.
You are unlikely to find this prescribed \ legally available to purchase and will be forced to look elsewhere to try this.
Plenty of threads on reddit re the profound libido increases, mood increases etc on MENT without the side effects of high T.
Do some research and give this a try as a last ditch effort.
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