Is long term HCG use detrimental?

[copacetic25]

I am currently under the following TRT protocol:
Every 3.5 days - 80mg Test Cyp, 500mg HCG, AI .35
Bodyfat is 17%

I recently was given the advice by someone very knowledgable in Anabolic Steroid cycles that long term HCG use is detrimental to your hormonal system. When I pressed him for facts or studies he essentially said that many of the clients he has advised have experienced the inability to jump start LH and FSH after long term HCG use when trying to revert back to their natural hormonal profile.

Part of me says, well...if you are on TRT for life...it does not matter. But, are there studies or evidence of adverse hormonal effects of long term HCG use. I mainly use HCG to preserve fertility but also due to the reported mood enhancement.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Nelson responded to this same topic five days ago.

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...hCG-Health-Safety-Concerns&highlight=hcg+long

 

[Vince]

If there's real studies. Please post them, it sounds like BS, if he can't show you any true studies. I really don't think there are any studies for or against HCG.

 

[Re-Ride]

["Many of the clients he has advised have experienced the inability to jump start LH and FSH after long term HCG use"]

CG, The study you linked to does not address axis restart after months or years of use as fr as I can tell. Did I overlook something?

Vince: I am unaware of any studies investigating axis restart in men who have used hCG long term. OP's concern is valid. The most common use has been in bodybuikders who use it very briefly as part of PCT.

If hCG were to be found to cause length suppression of the axis after extended use it would not be the first hormone or substance demonstrated as capable of that effect.

 

[DLK]

I am currently under the following TRT protocol:
Every 3.5 days - 80mg Test Cyp, 500mg HCG, AI .35
Bodyfat is 17%

I recently was given the advice by someone very knowledgable in Anabolic Steroid cycles that long term HCG use is detrimental to your hormonal system. When I pressed him for facts or studies he essentially said that many of the clients he has advised have experienced the inability to jump start LH and FSH after long term HCG use when trying to revert back to their natural hormonal profile.

Part of me says, well...if you are on TRT for life...it does not matter. But, are there studies or evidence of adverse hormonal effects of long term HCG use. I mainly use HCG to preserve fertility but also due to the reported mood enhancement.

Someone on long term TRT already has a compromised hormonal system and with the right doctor has already went through the process of a jumpstart. Once a lifelong replacement protocol is in place it's irrelevant if longterm HCG use is detrimental to restarting your system because there is no restarting. After all its not a steroid cycle, just my thoughts.

 

[Re-Ride]

Someone on long term TRT already has a compromised hormonal system and with the right doctor has already went through the process of a jumpstart. Once a lifelong replacement protocol is in place it's irrelevant if longterm HCG use is detrimental to restarting your system because there is no restarting. After all its not a steroid cycle, just my thoughts.

Attempting restart is rare in U.S. medical practice. No MD ever discussed HPG axis or restart nor was it ever tried with me. Until a patient lands here or on a bodybuilding forum the axis are about western powers "restoring democracy" in 1945 or some guy name Kim.

When a pt with low T begins discussing options with his MD the issue of prolonged or permanent axis impairment becomes highly relevant.

OP's question is a good one. Anecdotal reports from those doing steroid cycles aren't to be dismissed lightly. Many of the advancements we enjoy today in HRT are rooted in real world trial and error from bodybuilders not MD's.

 

[DLK]

Re-ride, I know about the trails of bodybuilder steroid cycles I've been there years ago, and I suggested the "right Dr." would try a restart. Not knowing age or circumstance, I'm stating that generally if a person needs TRT their not going be 10years into it and think hey lets try a restart, at 49 I don't think my natural production will turn around.

 

[Re-Ride]

DLK, Dr. Right? How elusive. I wish I'd consulted HIM in '86 instead instead of Dr. Redcap. Where would I be now physically and financially if I had not engaged Dr's Bogel, Basilisk, Charybdis, Wendigo, Kappa, and two dozen more? Stirring lime and coconut under the volcano in Cotacachi that's where. For the rest of my days on the interest of professional fees paid alone.

Some how I managed to attain 300's on my own after quitting Androgel 20? months ago. That was in my 60's still axis-ignorant and with 20 years of TRT behind me. And what were these bunko-docs telling me as I consigned myself to settling my estate certain I wouldn't make it another year? They can't tell an endocrine crash from a flea bite because it's all hollow earth to them.

I'll never know where proper "restart" might have gotten me. I'm sure I would have tried it before resorting to hCG mono if I'd only known.

Nelson does an excellent job of advising folks about the risks of prolonged or permanent endogenous gonadotropin impairment. For whatever reason that risk wasn't considered with hCG perhaps owing to it's popular short term use in PCT.

Is it more, less or equally depressive of the axis compared to TRT if re-start a possibility?

 

[Jerry Brainum]

HCG long term

I am currently under the following TRT protocol:
Every 3.5 days - 80mg Test Cyp, 500mg HCG, AI .35
Bodyfat is 17%

I recently was given the advice by someone very knowledgable in Anabolic Steroid cycles that long term HCG use is detrimental to your hormonal system. When I pressed him for facts or studies he essentially said that many of the clients he has advised have experienced the inability to jump start LH and FSH after long term HCG use when trying to revert back to their natural hormonal profile.

Part of me says, well...if you are on TRT for life...it does not matter. But, are there studies or evidence of adverse hormonal effects of long term HCG use. I mainly use HCG to preserve fertility but also due to the reported mood enhancement.

My feeling is that you can stay on low-dose (no more than 500 iU a week) HCG indefinitely. I never found, nor heard of any evidence that using this dose range causes any type of problem. However, I have seen studies (I cannot supply specific names and journals) noting that extended use of HCG in larger doses of 1,000 iu or more causes the Leydig cells of the testes to become refractory to LH. In short, eventually when using larger doses continuously, the HCG simply won't work. Another study showed that extended use of HCG, again in larger doses, can cause oxidative damage to the Leydig cells. Apparently, this study (can't recall whether it was a human, in vitro, or animal study) also showed that ingesting supplemental NAC helped to prevent this effect. I know that the amino acid, taurine, in animal studies does offer antioxidant protection in the testes.

 

[Re-Ride]

Aggarwal and his rat Leydigs strike again! brought to you by A-1 supplement company:
http://forums.a1supplements.com/content.php?502-Avoiding-HCG-Burnout-with-NAC

Then there are the mouse tumor cell lines nice marinated and served ala cate de la Petri

My feeling is that you can stay on low-dose (no more than 500 iU a week) HCG indefinitely. I never found, nor heard of any evidence that using this dose range causes any type of problem. However, I have seen studies (I cannot supply specific names and journals) noting that extended use of HCG in larger doses of 1,000 iu or more causes the Leydig cells of the testes to become refractory to LH. In short, eventually when using larger doses continuously, the HCG simply won't work. Another study showed that extended use of HCG, again in larger doses, can cause oxidative damage to the Leydig cells. Apparently, this study (can't recall whether it was a human, in vitro, or animal study) also showed that ingesting supplemental NAC helped to prevent this effect. I know that the amino acid, taurine, in animal studies does offer antioxidant protection in the testes.

 

[DLK]

Re-ride you've obviously got a lot of skin in this game, love the passion

 

[frankwhite]

Nelson responded to this same topic five days ago.

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...hCG-Health-Safety-Concerns&highlight=hcg+long

That study does nothing to address the OP's concern, which I also have. The study was done only to show that HCG would make guys produce sperm. They were not looking for anything else.