Ipamorelin and IGF-1

[SteveCleves]

@BigTex @NuSciencePeptides looking for your SME.

It’s my understanding that the way to tell if your GH peptides are working is to check your IGF levels some time period post injection.

Assuming one takes a saturation dosage of Ipamorelin 1mcg per kg bw. How long would you expect the IGF increase to last from the corresponding GH pulse that the Ipamorelin prompted?

If it was taken at night before sleep, would you expect IGF to be elevated in a blood test 10 hours later let’s say?

Also, in general do we have any idea how much of a GH pulse in equivalent IUs that a saturation dose of Ipamorelin would prompt?

 

[Gman86]

From my experience, and what I’ve read. Peptides such as Ipamorelin and CJC 1295 may not increase igf-1 levels on a blood test. I know they didn’t for me in the past, and I’ve heard from others that they didn’t raise their levels either

I’ve heard that growth peptides such as tesamorelin will raise igf-1 levels on a blood test tho

 

[BigTex]

@BigTex @NuSciencePeptides looking for your SME.

It’s my understanding that the way to tell if your GH peptides are working is to check your IGF levels some time period post injection.

Assuming one takes a saturation dosage of Ipamorelin 1mcg per kg bw. How long would you expect the IGF increase to last from the corresponding GH pulse that the Ipamorelin prompted?

If it was taken at night before sleep, would you expect IGF to be elevated in a blood test 10 hours later let’s say?

Also, in general do we have any idea how much of a GH pulse in equivalent IUs that a saturation dose of Ipamorelin would prompt?

Absolutely!

There are some very reliable blood testing results posted on ProMuscle. This one guy was doing blood work at Lab Corp 1 hour after injecting and 2 weeks into using saturation doses of mod GRF 1-29 and Ipamorelin, 3x/d. The IGF levels went from a baseline of 227 to 406 which is a 179 point increase in IGF-1. Previously he had done the same procedure on 4iu of pharma hGH and hit 380ng/ml. So according to this guy's blood work 3x/d peptide use at saturation level doses + to 4.2iu of hGH. No doubt results are very individual but you can see this combination works as good or better than using 4iu of hGH. It generally takes 3-4 weeks before IGF-1 returns to baseline after you stop using the peptides.

higher level of GH ARE observed between 15 and 30 min after subcutaneous administration.

Here is another blood test by a doctor over at PM

1) Yesteday fasting since 11pm the night before
2) Inject 500mcg of Mod GRF1-29 and 250mcg of GHRP-2 SubQ
3) Draw serum GH exactly 40min after injection



He further found through more blood testing that the 100/100mcg combo works just as well than the 500/250mcg dosage.

Here is another myth clearing blood test:

So due to overwhelming request and my own curiosity i decided to repeat the same test as before but this time post meal. We are always concerned and sometimes skip an injection because we think the food in our system will prevent release of GH from pituitary. So this morning at 8:30am i had:

1) 5 eggs scrambled with 1 teaspoon of Ghee butter
2) one large avocado
3) 2 slices of Arnolds multi wheat whole grain bread

My nutrition calculator states that i consumed 780 calories, 50g of fat, 53g of carbs and 43g of protein. So this was all started at 8:30 and finished by 8:45am. At 10:15am which is 1.5hours after meal completion i injected GRF/GHRP-2 100/100mcg combination.

I felt so weak and woozy from the GHRP-2 as i always do that at the 30min mark i ate a Chobani pineapple yogurt which has 160 calories 2.5g of fat, carbs 21gr, and protein 13g.

I had serum GH drawn at the 40min mark as usual. We will know tomorrow if the food consumption prevented or blunted serum GH. We have two solid numbers before with fasting so this will be a great comparison.

So does taking peptides after eating blunt the GH response? If you guys remember the last GRF/GHRP-2 100/100 was 19.5, so for this to come at 18.9 is a 3% difference which is pretty much none. Seems this is not a very significant drop. So the myth seems to have been busted. I pointed this out to DAT years ago and it caused a big riff between him and I because I disagreed with him that peptides must be taken on an empty stomach.

I initially did GRF/Ipam 100/250mcg and tested fasting at 40min. Not such good results here, huh? GH went from 4.0 - 2.2




GRF/IPAM 100/250mcg 2hours post injection....not much better



Next - combo of GRF/Ipam at 100/500mcg and tested at two hours fasting



Big difference between the two guys who did blood testing. I have never done blood testing using any of the peptides however, I have found myself that 500mg of Ipamorelin is the starting point if you want to see your GH and IGF-1 levels rise. I have always done 1000mg/day at bedtime combined with modified GRF 1-29. Other than that I will not use Ipamorelin because it is just not cost effective when the other GHRPs get better results.

 

[BigTex]

From my experience, and what I’ve read. Peptides such as Ipamorelin and CJC 1295 may not increase igf-1 levels on a blood test. I know they didn’t for me in the past, and I’ve heard from others that they didn’t raise their levels either

I’ve heard that growth peptides such as tesamorelin will raise igf-1 levels on a blood test tho

I can post some testing on tesamorelin too and it takes about 2mg/d to get the chains moving. Another one that is not so cost effective. IMHO GHRP-w and modified GRF 1-29 are by far the best bang for the buck. If it is a hunger issue dieting then IPA at >500mcg/dose.

 

[SteveCleves]

So is it safe to assume that if you see no increase in serum igf-1 you’re likely have junk product? Or are some non responsive like gman relayed?

 

[Gman86]

So is it safe to assume that if you see no increase in serum igf-1 you’re likely have junk product? Or are some non responsive like gman relayed?

Maybe I didn’t take high enough dosages. The stuff I was taking was real tho, when I had labs drawn on it. My ipam and CJC were both from empower I believe. I know they were both prescribed from somewhere. But they were pretty expensive, since they were prescribed and not from a research chemical site. I was only on 100mcg of each in the AM, and another 100mcg of each in the PM. Would have done higher dosages if it wasn’t so expensive. @BigTex said to see increases growth hormone levels on labs, one would need to be taking around 500mcg of Ipamorelin. Which I obv wasn’t close to

 

[BigTex]

So is it safe to assume that if you see no increase in serum igf-1 you’re likely have junk product? Or are some non responsive like gman relayed?

I don't think it is junk products, I believe it just take much more than most of us realize to get the GH needle moving upward. I have done close to 6mg/d and honestly felt I got more using 100mcg of GHRP-2

I can say in the almost 12 years I sold peptides I sold very little Ipam, less GHRP-6 and on rare occasions someone would want Hex. GHRP-2 was the biggest seller along with mod GRF 1-29.

 

[SteveCleves]

So you would advise more than the conventional wisdom saturation dose of 1mcg per kg bw?

 

[BigTex]

On all of the peptides except IPA there is a definite diminishing returns effect on the dosing over saturation which is 1mcg/kg. What we found out is that if you double 100mcg and go 200, you will only get a 50% increase. If you triple that dose you will only get around a 25% increase. Beyond that you get nothing more. The biggest problem with going up too high on the GHRPs (except IPA) is receptor desensitization and cortisol/prolactin side-effects. Again, IPA is the only one that does not cause any of the typical side effects so high doses are not a problem. Hexarelin on the other hand, has the highest potential to increase cortisol & prolactin and can occur even at saturation doses. So it is best to take days off when using this. In my experience using IPA, I would start at 500mcg and go up.

 

[SteveCleves]

Ty. This is very helpful.

 

[SteveCleves]

@BigTex curious your thoughts on this.

My understanding is that the case for peptides was that in a world of expensive GH, it made sense to spend hundreds on peptides to get your body to secrete GH vs thousands on exogenous administration of GH.

In the past 2 years we’ve seen a deluge of generic GH hit the market to the point now where GH can be bought at about $1 per IU.

That being the case, why would/should anyone pick a GH peptide over just injecting GH?

 

[Gman86]

On all of the peptides except IPA there is a definite diminishing returns on the dosing over saturation which is 1mcg/kg. What we found out is that if you double 100mcg and go 200, you will only get a 50% increase. If you triple that dose you will only get around a 25% increase. Beyond that you get nothing more. The biggest problem with going up too high on the GHRPs (except IPA) is receptor desensitization and cortisol/prolactin side-effects. Again, IPA is the only one that does not cause any of the typical side effects so high doses are not a problem. Hexarelin on the other hand, has the highest potential to increase cortisol & prolactin and can occur even at saturation doses. So it is best to take days off when using this. In my experience using IPA, I would start at 500mcg and go up.

500mcg per day total, or 500mcg per dose?

 

[BadassBlues]

@BigTex curious your thoughts on this.

My understanding is that the case for peptides was that in a world of expensive GH, it made sense to spend hundreds on peptides to get your body to secrete GH vs thousands on exogenous administration of GH.

In the past 2 years we’ve seen a deluge of generic GH hit the market to the point now where GH can be bought at about $1 per IU.

That being the case, why would/should anyone pick a GH peptide over just injecting GH?

Potential down regulation of natural HGH? Ipam appears to me to be most effective pathway to increase HGH with the least risk of side effects. Tesamorelin may actually be better, but not as cost effective. The Ipam and Mod GRF combo is an almost perfect protocol. GHRP-2 has far too many side effects to even be considered for most, unless you are looking at a short term run for specific gains.

Not to be a broken record, but age is a definite factor. There needs to be a sliding scale that adjusts for age in the equation.

Define your goals, what are you trying to accomplish?

 

[NuSciencePeptides]

I can say in the almost 12 years I sold peptides I sold very little Ipam, less GHRP-6 and on rare occasions someone would want Hex. GHRP-2 was the biggest seller along with mod GRF 1-29.

Currently, Ipa moves quite a bit, GHRP 2 & Hex not much at all, and GHRP 6 falls in the middle.

 

[BigTex]

I guess this is most likely because so many life extension/compounding pharmacies selling Ipamorelin making it more popular. I would imagine sermerolin sells much better for the same reason. In 12 years, I never sold 1 vial.

Been hearing about a newly developed growth hormone releasing peptide called ALRN-5281? It is supposed to be in clinical trials now and is said to be a long acting peptide.

ALRN-5281 is a proprietary agonist for treating orphan endocrine disorders, including adult growth hormone deficiency and HIV lipodystrophy, as well as broader patient populations involving a wide variety of metabolic/endocrine disorders.

Aileron Therapeutics secures $12m for clinical trial of stapled peptide drug candidate

Aileron Therapeutics Inc., a Cambridge biopharmaceutical company, said Monday that it has secured the second tranche in its Series D financing, bringing the total round to $42 million. Current investors Apple Tree Partners, Excel Venture Management, Lilly Ventures, Novartis Venture Funds, Roche...

www.boston.com

 

[BigTex]

Potential down regulation of natural HGH? Ipam appears to me to be most effective pathway to increase HGH with the least risk of side effects. Tesamorelin may actually be better, but not as cost effective. The Ipam and Mod GRF combo is an almost perfect protocol. GHRP-2 has far too many side effects to even be considered for most, unless you are looking at a short term run for specific gains.

Not to be a broken record, but age is a definite factor. There needs to be a sliding scale that adjusts for age in the equation.

Define your goals, what are you trying to accomplish?

Yeah, IPA seems to be the best of the GHRPS considering there are no side effects. However, as blood test show it take much more than 100mcg - 250mcg of it to do the same job 100mcg of GHRP-2 will do which is much less expensive. If you can afford doing 500mcg-1mg at a time I guess it is a good product. For those on a diet it is excellent. Tesamorelin falls in the same category. Plus, it has a short 1/2 life (~8min) compared to modified GRF 1-29(~30). For growth deficient kids they suggest 2mg/d. Even for bodybuilding purposes they suggest 500mcg - 2mg.

Most people started doing peptide because they were a cheaper alternative to doing hGH. When you have to pay more than $2/dose you might as well go hGH. Good Chinese hGH easily goes for $0.70 - $1.00/iu. With 2mg of Ipa going for about $30, you are looking at $7.50/500mcg. Tesamorelin. is about $75/5mg so that is $1.50/100mcg injection. Either one of them costs far more than good Chinese hGH. If I had to choose between the two I would always go with hGH over peptides. If you pay $35 for modified GRF 1-29 that is $1.75/100mcg. Combine that with IPA and you are easily paying $9.25/dose. You can do 4iu of hGH for $2/dose. These prices all came from Peptide Sciences which is about average in prices on the web. Exactly why I appreciate places like @NuSciencePeptides for providing much less expensive prices. I always try to get the best bang for the buck.

 

[BigTex]

@BigTex curious your thoughts on this.

My understanding is that the case for peptides was that in a world of expensive GH, it made sense to spend hundreds on peptides to get your body to secrete GH vs thousands on exogenous administration of GH.

In the past 2 years we’ve seen a deluge of generic GH hit the market to the point now where GH can be bought at about $1 per IU.

That being the case, why would/should anyone pick a GH peptide over just injecting GH?

Good question. I guess for many it's they just don't have the connections to get hGH. Myself, I go hGH over peptides or even the combination.

 

[BigTex]

500mcg per day total, or 500mcg per dose?

That blood testing was done with 1 dose. Will say 250mcg x 3 do the same? Who knows, but I would rather doubt it would.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Currently, Ipa moves quite a bit, GHRP 2 & Hex not much at all, and GHRP 6 falls in the middle.

An IPAM/Mod GRF blend at the right ratio instead of 1 to 1 would be a big seller I would expect. I have not seen this offered.

 

[SteveCleves]

Potential down regulation of natural HGH?

Has that been shown anywhere that exogenous gh does this or is that broscience?

Define your goals, what are you trying to accomplish?

Just very intrigued by peptides and GH. Trying to understand them a little better.

Perhaps its just my bigorexia kicking in and I am feeling some FOMO that I am not on GH or peptides.

I now GH is not anabolic, its the quality of life benefits that have me intrigued. Better skin, better sleep, better recovery, fat loss, etc.

That being said, there are dangerous unknowns redlining your IGF-1, from a longevity perspective.
So the question is, is the pulsatile nature of peptides "safer" than just injecting GH?