Injection Frequency - Why aren't Daily and EOD protocols more common?

[S1W]

In Jay Campbell's new book, he discusses injection protocols and offers the following (paraphrased/abbreviated):

After close to 20 years of using injectable testosterone in the context of health and longevity...we present our recommended protocols in order of preference for lifelong TRT.

1. Daily - This provides the most stable testosterone levels (i.e. mimicking endogenous production of testosterone as closely as possible) and it also helps to minimize aromitzation and erythrocytosis.

2. EOD - This is a nice compromise between daily and twice per week injections if you cannot bring yourself to inject daily.

3. Twice per week - This is the most popular choice (preferred by patients due to fewer injections) and still more advantageous than once per week.

With so many members dealing with HCT and E2 issues, and struggling with peaks and troughs or just generally trying to get dialed in, it seems like Daily or EOD should be more common if those protocols truly help in those areas.

Why aren't more frequent injection protocols more popular - has it just not caught on yet, or are most people simply opposed to more than twice weekly injections?

 

[Vince Carter]

IMHO...really not appropriate, or necessary for most guys, if, IF they were on an appropriate dose as the sides that come with TRT probably could be better managed if we weren't being pushed to TT > 1000 and a dosing adjustment. Plus and there's a huge compliance part to it that many guys can't or won't stay with sticking themselves 7 days a week.

 

[Systemlord]

I don't have a choice but to inject EOD or all my symptoms don't fully resolve, if I could get away with twice weekly injections I would continue doing it. I really wouldn't want to inject every day. I also seem to be one of those guys who gets more estrogen conversion moving injections closer together, opposite of the norm.

 

[S1W]

I don't have a choice but to inject EOD or all my symptoms don't fully resolve, if I could get away with twice weekly injections I would continue doing it. I really wouldn't want to inject every day. I also seem to be one of those guys who gets more estrogen conversion moving injections closer together, opposite of the norm.

What symptoms improved on your EOD protocol that previously had not improved on a less frequent injection protocol?

 

[blitzen]

Isn't the frequency (to a point) determined by the SHBG? High E could get you to move to inject more frequent too but low SHBG > ED or EOD and high every week / twice a week and everything else in between

 

[Systemlord]

What symptoms improved on your EOD protocol that previously had not improved on a less frequent injection protocol?

No erections or libido on 50mg twice weekly injections, only happens on 17-25mg EOD injections. My SHBG doesn't behave as if it's low, with a trough of 600+, no erections, no libido as I suspect I hyper metabolize my free testosterone. When I was injecting 200mg every 2 weeks, I would peak in the 1200's, 10 days after injection I'd still be in the middle ranges, or 75mg once weekly I'd peak in the 530's and an hour before injection I'd still be in the 440's. That doesn't suggest that low SHBG is even an issue, Dr Crisler says SHBG has a variable in the stickiness from person to person.

One could argue I'm similar to a high SHBG guy, great numbers and low FT. I've got a good amount of muscle, not common to low SHBG guys. Everybody's different.

 

[Vince]

It's a lot easier to inject once a week or twice a week compared to injecting daily. When I started doing daily injections over a year now, I didn't know if I had the discipline to inject everyday. So far it has worked out really nice for me, I'm hoping I will continue during daily injections but who knows.

 

[Henry]

With the daily injections, how do you get that thick oil in the little diabetic syringe? I've been trying to figure that out for a while now.

I pulled out the plunger once and tried to 'backfill' it and the testosterone just squirted out.

 

[blitzen]

I use a 1/2 inch long 27 gauge needle ... had 29 first but that was too time consuming for me.
Are you referring with diabetic needle to a 31 or so .... I would bent the needle, get frustrated waiting for it to fill ..... it that even works

 

[Henry]

I use a 1/2 inch long 27 gauge needle ... had 29 first but that was too time consuming for me.
Are you referring with diabetic needle to a 31 or so .... I would bent the needle, get frustrated waiting for it to fill ..... it that even works

That's what I use. The 31-5/8 for hCG. I thought that could be used for T but it couldn't

 

[Vince]

I have no problem filling my 29 1/2 gauge Easy Touch syringe, I've heard cottonseed oil is much thicker. I inject with grapeseed oil, the oil is probably the issue.

 

[Henry]

Do you fill it the conventional way (i.e. needle in vial)?

 

[Systemlord]

Is it possible that a guy with 33% BF isn't hitting muscle with a 27 gauge insulin syringe in shoulders or quads? I wondered if that was why my EOD protocol failed, do to SQ instead of IM. If I am a hyper metabolizer SQ would fail me do to the slow steady release.

 

[Vince Carter]

I think that a guy would have to be pretty lean to hit muscle with .5 needle.

SQ over IM or vice-versa has almost nothing to do with anything besides the size of the needle you want use. Saying you fail because of one or the other is a huge leap.

 

[madman]

That's what I use. The 31-5/8 for hCG. I thought that could be used for T but it couldn't

It can be used for oil based testosterone but the draw/injection time would be a lot longer.

I would say 27-29 gauge is best for oil based testosterone regarding easier draw/injection times.......I personally have always used BD U-100 28 gauge 1/2 inch syringe and it works well.

I would maybe try 29 one day but difference would be minimal and I would never use 30-31...........sure it still works but much slower draw/inject compared to 27/28 and the needle will bend really easy (chance of breaking off if not careful)!

 

[madman]

Is it possible that a guy with 33% BF isn't hitting muscle with a 27 gauge insulin syringe in shoulders or quads? I wondered if that was why my EOD protocol failed, do to SQ instead of IM. If I am a hyper metabolizer SQ would fail me do to the slow steady release.

Regardless of ones body fat a majority of a males adipose tends to be stored in the mid-section and glutes, thighs if bf% is really up there but shoulders are usually not a really fatty area.

As Mr. Carter stated injecting im vs sub-q should make absolutely no difference regarding absorption/effectiveness of the oily depot being formed to eventually release the t in ones system.

Sure there is a possibilty that the release time when one injects sub-q could be slightly slower but it has never been proven and even than would make no difference to the absorption/effectiveness of the testosterone.

 

[S1W]

It can be used for oil based testosterone but the draw/injection time would be a lot longer.

I would say 27-29 gauge is best for oil based testosterone regarding easier draw/injection times.......I personally have always used BD U-100 28 gauge 1/2 inch syringe and it works well.

I would maybe try 29 one day but difference would be minimal and I would never use 30-31...........sure it still works but much slower draw/inject compared to 27/28 and the needle will bend really easy (chance of breaking off if not careful)!

Another vote for the 28g 1/2".

I've tried 27, 28, 29, and 30 for T. Cyp. All work but 28 seems to work best for me. 30 was too small but worked. I liked the 29, but find I need to apply a bit more pressure on the plunger even compared to the 28, which creates a bit of tension/vibration, which in turn irritates the injection site despite the smaller needle. All were EasyTouch syringes.

 

[S1W]

I wondered if that was why my EOD protocol failed, do to SQ instead of IM.

Your EOD protocol failed? Based on what you wrote upstream I thought it was working out better for you. Are you no longer on an EOD protocol?

 

[blitzen]

Is it possible that a guy with 33% BF isn't hitting muscle with a 27 gauge insulin syringe in shoulders or quads? I wondered if that was why my EOD protocol failed, do to SQ instead of IM. If I am a hyper metabolizer SQ would fail me do to the slow steady release.

The 27 isn’t a problem but how long is the needle 5/8, 1/2 or 1 1/2 or

 

[Systemlord]

The 27 isn’t a problem but how long is the needle 5/8, 1/2 or 1 1/2 or

It's 1/2 inch.