Inexplicably high Estrogens

[Vince Carter]

The last few months I'm having an Estrogen problem...I can't yet figure out what it is that's aromatizing, I'm not taking that much Cyp at one time, nor am I taking a lot of HCG. I made some changes as it went on noted below. I have a/o a week ago dropped the Preg totally and am using ~25mg micronized DHEA sublingual/oral now. I have testing scheduled for this week. If I'm still pushing E2 I'll have to consider dropping the DHEA to 15mg or entirely.

I did consider the timing of my blood draws with my HCG use on Mon/Thurs. but I'm can't say for sure as I didn't keep good enough records if I shot HCG within 24hrs of E2 testing. Tests were Mon/Fri AM but I just can't be for certain my HCG use.

So it's either, the Pregnenolone, the DHEA, the HCG, or the cream I apply to the scrotum. I've been reluctant to blame the cream as its working well for DHT, or the DHEA micronized oral as those are showing positive tests.

My protocol is:

50mg Cyp EOD (SHBG was 12 at last test, always <15)
250/200iu HCG E3.5D
.15mg Anastrozole E3.5D (with HCG)
25mg Test Cream, (daily scrotum application for DHT)
Variatons of DHEA/Preg creams and capsules noted below.

7.18 (Monday) E2=72
DHEA=508 (70-495)
DHT=130

5.13 (Friday) E2=39
DHEA=725 (switched FROM two to one 25/25 capsule daily)
DHT=94

3.14 (Monday) E2=60
DHEA=197 (switched FROM cream TO capsules as it's not absorbing)
DHT=73

2.1 (Monday) E2=65
DHEA=201 (DHEA/Preg comp cream)
DHT=104

 

[Vince Carter]

It was also in this time that I had a standard and an ultrasensitive Estrogen test, the Sensitive being HIGHER

46 (<39)
60 (<29)

Same day same blood draw (due to Quest error they ordered both tests for me that day)

 

[Vince Carter]

Eliminated Preg, used 25mg micronized DHEA sublingual for 20 minutes then swallowed that.

12 Aug 2016 (Friday)
DHEA-S = 448mcg/dl
Estradiol US = 48 (24hrs post HCG 200iu plus .125mg Anastrozole)

a/o 13 Aug stopped using DHEA entirely.

 

[Vince Carter]

Eliminated DHEA totally, over three weeks ago:

Estradiol LC/MS/MS = 60

This was 72hrs post HCG of 200iu, and 24hrs post Cyp of 24mg (I'm on daily Cyp inj)

I've no idea at all how I'm pushing Estrogen that high. It's a ratio of 19 (trough total T = 1151/60).

Current Protocol
24mg Cyp Daily
200iu HCG E3.5D
.15mg Anastrozole E3.5D
No DHEA
No Pregnenolone

 

[ERO]

Are you having high E2 symptoms as well, or just high numbers?

 

[Vince Carter]

Irritable/aggitated/PMSish with some being overly warm in bed at night. Not quite the sweats just a feeling of being hot with the A/C @ 68 and a ceiling fan on medium.

 

[lcvl]

Total Test and Free Test?

 

[Davet]

I had a major problem back in May where I ran 25 mg of of DHEA and it threw me right out of sinc...bad ride all-sorts of sh*t ..backed down the DHEA step by step and countered with Arimidex ...over-did the arimidex and crashed....
Took over 3 months to get back on track.
Had all the symptoms you mention.
Just keep tweaking and you will find your sweet spot Vince.

Not sure why but the DHEA seems to impact me harder whilst on the T as i used to run it before up to 50 mg a day with no probs.

Davet

 

[Vince Carter]

Total Test and Free Test?

At this test total was 1151. I stopped testing Free T as with low SHBG that I have it's always off the charts high, >3%

That was just a week in to switching to daily Cyp, one more test and I'll likely make a small adjustment down from 24mg to 22 or 20mg.

 

[lcvl]

That was what I was gonna suggest. Maybe the cumulative effect of daily injections affected your TT and E faster than you thought.

 

[Vince]

I think you need to simplify your protocol. Start over. You are doing so many things, simplify it.
I would inject every 3 1/2 days, both T and HCG and just start over.

 

[Vince Carter]

With SHBG in the low teens I can't get by on E3.5D

 

[Vince]

You don't have a fatty liver, right? Do you feel better injecting every day?
You could try being a vegetarian, to raise your SHBG. Probably not something you want to try.

 

[Vince]

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...sterone-SHBG-Phytoestrogens&p=50290#post50290

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

Vince how does fatty liver affect estrogen? I have fatty liver and am on TRT.

 

[Vince]

A fatty liver increases insulin that increases belly fat that increases E2.

 

[Vince Carter]

It must be the T cream applied to the scrotum for DHT, that must be concurrently aromatizing. Applying it as directed in the AM before testing to see how the DHT is affected, I'll instead this next time NOT apply it before testing and see what my E comes in at. Its the last good idea I have here.

 

[Tommy Wall]

Let us know how it goes. I also apply T gel to my scrotum but only 1 or 2 max per week. No lab done though. But I notice that I get more acne and consider stopping this.

 

[Vince Carter]

I stopped completely the T cream to the scrotum four days ago. I have scheduled follow up and tests in the next two weeks. So far...subjective feeling nothing better, or worse. Still just a little too warm in bed at night but I do see a little better body comp like maybe some water weight/bloat/puffy has subsided that I didn't notice. Still weighing in @ 213.

 

[Vince Carter]

update:
24mg daily/200iu HCG E3.5D
no DHEA, no Preg, no Test cream

TT trough 759
FT 248 (high)
SHBG 12
Sens E2 88

...just no idea at all where this E2 is coming from.