Increased insulin resistance when FT3 and FT4 at high end of normal

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DragonBits

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I thought this was interesting as it suggests that high end of normal range for FT3 and FT4 causes insulin resistance.

Wouldn't this suggest being in the middle of the range is optimal? Or am I reading this wrong?
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High Blood Sugar & Insulin Resistance Correlate with High T3
High blood sugar, insulin resistance, or high fasting blood glucose may all be caused by high T3 levels. Many on the T3-only protocol or high doses of desiccated thyroid notice their blood sugar levels rising and wonder why. It’s because thyroid levels, either too high or too low, have a direct impact on blood glucose.
Hypothyroidism may cause high blood sugar & insulin resistance
A1C levels of hypothyroid patients are generally higher than normal, and in one study, replacement with thyroid hormone brought the A1C down, but it did not lower fasting blood glucose. [1] A1C is a measure of average blood glucose levels over several months. This study shows that the hypothyroid condition will cause an overall higher average blood glucose than normal.
Insulin resistance appears when thyroid levels are too low or too high. [2] Correcting the hypothyroid state is beneficial, but replacement with too much thyroid hormone may result in continued insulin resistance.
A low T3/T4 ratio was found in pre-diabetics who had both high insulin levels and insulin resistance. These subjects had lower T3 levels and higher T4 levels than normal, glucose-tolerant subjects. This study confirms that a certain level of T3 is essential for normal glucose metabolism.[3]
SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin) is secreted by the liver and is positively correlated with thyroid levels—it rises when hyperthyroid and falls when hypothyroid. Low levels therefore suggest a hypothyroid condition. Low SHBG is also a biomarker of insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome, and a risk factor for developing high blood sugar and type 2 diabetes, especially in women. [5]
High T3 & High T4 may cause high blood sugar and insulin resistance
Blood sugar problems may be caused by high thyroid levels. The following are some studies that show the direct correlation of rising T3 and T4 levels with high fasting blood glucose and insulin resistance.
Type 2 diabetics with metabolic syndrome showed a positive correlation of their Free T3 with fasting blood glucose. In other words, the higher their Free T3, the higher the fasting blood glucose.[4]
Insulin sensitivity, measured with an ISI, was negatively correlated with both Free T3 and Free T4. In other words, the higher the FT3 and FT4, the lower the insulin sensitivity. Likewise, HOMA, a measure of insulin resistance, was positively correlated with both Free T3 and Free T4. In other words, as Free T3 and Free T4 increased, so did insulin resistance. Both Free T3 and Free T4 were within the normal range, just at the high end of the range. Insulin resistance is a feature of type 2 diabetes.[6]
Insulin resistance was measured in Graves’ hyperthyroid patients before and after treatment with antithyroid drugs that brought their thyroid levels into the normal range. Insulin resistance, measured by HOMA, decreased once their thyroid levels decreased to a more normal level. [7] Serum glucose and insulin levels did not significantly change before and after treatment of the hyperthyroidism. However, BMI-adjusted insulin levels fell as both Free T3 and Free T4 also fell.
Thyroid hormone stimulates glucose production from the liver and at high levels, induces liver insulin resistance. In a comparison of hyperthyroid vs. normal patients, HGP (hepatic glucose production or glucose produced by the liver) was 20% higher in the hyperthyroid patients. After an intravenous infusion of glucose, insulin levels increased to 66% in the hyperthyroid patients vs. 37% in normal patients. The excess insulin showed a diminished inhibitory effect on glucose production, suggesting liver insulin resistance. [8]
Since insulin resistance is affected by thyroid hormone levels, a comparison was made between the T3/rT3 ratios of insulin resistant and insulin sensitive subjects. The T3/rT3 ratio was significantly higher in insulin resistant subjects, who had a higher proportion of T3 to rT3. [9] Since a high ratio is actually the goal of the T3-only protocol, and quite a few on the protocol notice their blood glucose rising, one might ask if the protocol itself is inducing the insulin resistance.
A suppressed TSH (below the reference range or close to zero) is also correlated with higher insulin levels, insulin resistance, and lower insulin sensitivity when compared to control subjects, even though Free T4 and T3 may be within the reference range. Insulin resistance, as measured by HOMA-IR, showed a positive relationship with T3 levels throughout the whole sample population of both controls and those on thyroid replacement. In other words, as T3 rose, so did insulin resistance. [10]
Conclusion
Blood sugar problems are a common topic of discussion on many thyroid forums. Some patients keep their Free T3 levels at the top or even above the reference ranges, and many are now starting to report elevated fasting blood glucose levels. Low-carb diets are the common recommendation, although it seems, from the research shown here, that many are just taking too much T3.
If thyroid levels were graphed with blood sugar problems, it would form a u-shaped curve, like most hormones. There is a small range of thyroid hormone which keeps blood sugar and insulin at healthy levels, but both too much and too little thyroid hormone will cause blood sugar problems. Apparently thyroid reference ranges are too broad, because symptoms of both too much and too little are appearing in subjects whose Free T3 and Free T4 values are within the normal reference ranges.

http://www.tiredthyroid.com/insulin-resistance.html
 
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Does anyone else have any comments? This is a pretty shocking revelation considering that the almost universal advice on this forum and from my hormone specialist is to have FT3 and FT4 at the high end of the range.
 
I am no expert but doesn't T3 increase Cortisol? This would be the cause and I don't see Cortisol talked about much in that. This effect is the same as if you was taking Cortisone. If start T3 and don't have enough Cortisol to support it you get Hypoglycemic sides.
 
This is very interesting, I am insulin resistant and I also have hypothyroidism. With metformin and my low carb diet I've been able to keep my A1C steady at 5. 2 and My fasting glucose that 86 the last few years. I wonder what will happened as I try to increase my free T3. I am trying to be careful, I don't wish to become hyper. Also I do not have low shbg if anything it's in the high range.
 
I’ve been researching this topic for the past year. I actually posted a similar study a while ago. On the insert for most thyroid meds it states glucose levels can rise while taking medication. I have experienced insulin resistance while taking thyroid meds, it happened with months of use. It doesn’t happen right away. I stopped taking t3 and t4 and I’m hopping my body can heal. I would only take thyroid meds if diagnosed by a pcp.
 
Google body composition and thyroid levels in men. They found that the men with higher levels of thyroid hormones had more body fat and less muscle mass than men with lower levels.
 
Jay Campbell did a podcast on his own blood work and his fasting blood glucose was 110. He’s taking nature thyroid twice per day. He didn’t even comment on his blood sugar, just totally over looked it like it wasn’t a issue. He also intermittent fasts and eats low carb. Why is his BG so high?
 
Google body composition and thyroid levels in men. They found that the men with higher levels of thyroid hormones had more body fat and less muscle mass than men with lower levels.
That's pretty interesting Joey!
 
I'd be interested in hearing from other thyroid experts. It's been recommended that I take NDT, but I've held off to isolate the effects of my newly started TRT program. I have a family history of diabetes so clearly don't want to exasperate blood sugar issues.
 
There are studies suggesting low free and total t3 can also cause insulin resistance. More research needs to be done.
The study does mention that low free T3 can cause insulin resistance.

A1C levels of hypothyroid patients are generally higher than normal, and in one study, replacement with thyroid hormone brought the A1C down, but it did not lower fasting blood glucose. [1] A1C is a measure of average blood glucose levels over several months. This study shows that the hypothyroid condition will cause an overall higher average blood glucose than normal.
Insulin resistance appears when thyroid levels are too low or too high. [2] Correcting the hypothyroid state is beneficial, but replacement with too much thyroid hormone may result in continued insulin resistance.
A low T3/T4 ratio was found in pre-diabetics who had both high insulin levels and insulin resistance. These subjects had lower T3 levels and higher T4 levels than normal, glucose-tolerant subjects. This study confirms that a certain level of T3 is essential for normal glucose metabolism.[3]
http://www.tiredthyroid.com/insulin-resistance.html

After seeing Nelson's thread about getting sued I thought I better add it
 
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The study does mention that low free T3 can cause insulin resistance.

A1C levels of hypothyroid patients are generally higher than normal, and in one study, replacement with thyroid hormone brought the A1C down, but it did not lower fasting blood glucose. [1] A1C is a measure of average blood glucose levels over several months. This study shows that the hypothyroid condition will cause an overall higher average blood glucose than normal.
Insulin resistance appears when thyroid levels are too low or too high. [2] Correcting the hypothyroid state is beneficial, but replacement with too much thyroid hormone may result in continued insulin resistance.
A low T3/T4 ratio was found in pre-diabetics who had both high insulin levels and insulin resistance. These subjects had lower T3 levels and higher T4 levels than normal, glucose-tolerant subjects. This study confirms that a certain level of T3 is essential for normal glucose metabolism.[3]

But does the study indicate what levels of FT3 is that "certain" level, what level defines hypothyroid, and what number is a low T3/T5 ratio. And "higher" levels of T4 than normal, does that mean above the reference range of "4.5-12.0" ? Do they define "normal"?

I think everyone on the planet agrees that a "certain" level of T3 is essential.

Is there a link to the study?
 
Like SHBG you have Thyroxine-binding globulin. This should have effects on levels just like free T and SHBG. It is complex and we are not getting a complete picture of what all is going on.
 
tiredthyroid.com has a lot of great information. There is a great article on high t3 correlating with insulin resistance. Vince, when to draw blood do you take your thyroid meds two hours before the blood draw? Or do you draw blood then take your thyroid meds?
 
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tiredthyroid.com has a lot of great information. There is a great article on high t3 correlating with insulin resistance. Vince, when to draw blood do you take your thyroid meds two hours before the blood draw? Or do you draw blood then take your thyroid meds?
I take my meds after my blood draw, I know there's two theories on when to take your meds. Here's a thread I posted earlier. What do you think is the best time to take your meds before or after your blood draw?

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/take-your-thyroid-meds-before-of-after-your-labs.15003/
 
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